Government shutdown possible

[Ryan]

The government won't shut down. The two moronic parties will sit and yell at each other and scream and posture. And then around 11:30 PM March 3rd, they'll pass a resolution.

I'd make a friendly wager with you on that one, I don't think that either side is going to blink on this one.

The FRA would close for business, no?

Yes.

I would presume that the functions that are considered "essential" would continue on so that the railroads could keep moving.

My wife (who works at the Capitol Visitor Center) was told that if the government shut down the CVC would be closed and they would not receive a paycheck for the duration of the shutdown ...

Yep. All Non-Essentials stay home without pay. Essential Personnel, like I, do go to work and get paid.

(Now here is the bad part: the non-essentials will get paid. essential get nothing extra. so it is like getting extra days off with pay for all the non-essentials. what a joke)

Bad for you, good for us! She said that they were told that they "may" get paid for the lost time after the fact, but no guarantees that it would happen or when they would get around to processing it if it did.

 

[afigg]

Amtrak continued to run during the last shut down right? Why should this be any different. To bad airlines won't shut down though

Amtrak operates on either tracks they own, owned by the state / local transit agency for the NEC and some other corridors or tracks owned by private freight companies. Same for all for the dispatch and control operations. Amtrak provides it's own security operation with the Amtrak police, although at a few major stations such as NYP, there is additional security presence provided by local police or TSA. No reason for Amtrak to stop running for a short term federal shutdown.

Airline operations, however, are dependent on the federally operated Air Traffic Control, TSA and probably other parts of the Home Security Department and Customs for international flights. These presumably all would be covered as Essential Personnel, even though all essential personnel are also unfunded if Congress doesn't pass an authorization bill or continuing resolution.

I think odds are good that we will have a short term government shutdown. The Republican House leadership has not shown that it can effectively control the newly elected block of 50 or 60 idealogical Tea partiers who are new to the political process. The House Democrats are not going to be inclined to help the Republican leadership out, if that means draconian budgets cuts out of a relatively small slice of the federal budget. Short term gridlock is likely.

 

[daveyb99]

Bad for you, good for us! She said that they were told that they "may" get paid for the lost time after the fact, but no guarantees that it would happen or when they would get around to processing it if it did.

Really? Why lump all that hate on the Federal Employee because of a partisan Legislative disagreement. The ones staying home without pay are not at fault.

(And it is just because they are not at fault that they will get back-pay for those days. Always have, always will).

 

[saxman]

Amtrak continued to run during the last shut down right? Why should this be any different. To bad airlines won't shut down though :giggle:

I'd rather not the airlines shut down. Some of us rely on them, a lot.

 

[Ryan]

Bad for you, good for us! She said that they were told that they "may" get paid for the lost time after the fact, but no guarantees that it would happen or when they would get around to processing it if it did.

Really? Why lump all that hate on the Federal Employee because of a partisan Legislative disagreement.

I don't even know what "hate" you're talking about.

 

[jis]

Amtrak continued to run during the last shut down right? Why should this be any different. To bad airlines won't shut down though :giggle:

I'd rather not the airlines shut down. Some of us rely on them, a lot.

Some of us even way more than we rely on Amtrak actually, not that we would want Amtrak to shut down either.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

I'm booked on the Silver Star on March 7, so out of curiosity I called customer service to see what they said about Amtrak not running if the Fed Gov shuts down on or around March 4. The woman I spoke to had no idea, so she put me on hold to ask her supervisor. When she came back she told me to call back next week for an answer. :blink:

Now I do think (and hope) my train will be running, but I thought it was a curious way for customer service to handle the question. It could be that the prospect of shutting down has been a non-issue for Amtrak employees. But it also made me wonder if they are afraid folks are going to cancel with Amtrak and fly instead. In any case, their answer did not exactly inspire confidence that I'll get to my destination either.

 

[Ryan]

Clueless CSR. Amtrak will run.

 

[fairviewroad]

Will border crossings be affected? After all, those customs agents are federal employees. It's hard to imagine

our borders being closed but it's much easier to imagine the Amtrak-related crossing points to be shut down.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I would guess customs are considered 'required' but I'm not sure, it would mean closing our borders.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

I would guess customs are considered 'required' but I'm not sure, it would mean closing our borders.

I heard that a lot of Borders are closing. :mellow:

Oh wait, I'm thinking of Borders Books! hboy:

In all seriousness, I'm sure INS and Customs agents are considered essential personnel and will be working throughout any shutdown.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Wait, is it borders or boarders?

 

[PerRock]

It is a private company who's sole owner is the US Congress, it is operated as both an independent company and political football. It isn't wholly one way or the other. They operate in the grey area that Greyhound, NPR, Planned Parenthood, PBS, and all other "public owned businesses".

I don't think Greyhound belongs in that category, though. It is a private company, owned by a UK-based company.

Greyhound is owned by the British (ok Scottish) FirstGroup who primarily operate various public transportation systems across the globe. It is (and has been) a fully private corporation. FG 'merged' all the regional Greyhound services into just Greyhound, and started up two Discount Services under the Greyhound name. Greyhound Canada is also owned by FG, as well as the new Greyhound UK. Greyhound Australia is owned by Chapman Group and ANZ.



It would be interesting to see what would happen to Amtrak if FirstGroup got their hands on it (or one other the other big passenger train corporations from across the seas).



peter

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

Will border crossings be affected? After all, those customs agents are federal employees. It's hard to imagine

our borders being closed but it's much easier to imagine the Amtrak-related crossing points to be shut down.

God I hope not, I have trip up to Canada to ride the Canadian in March.

 

[George Harris]

If Obamba has any functional brain cells, he will do just what Clinton did. Shut down / close selection government offices and functions for the purpose of achieving maximum public aggravation and inconvenience. Anyone in or out of government that does not think the choice is Obamba's needs a lesson in the basic separation of powers.

The Congress may pass or not pass laws, but the Executive Branch, meaning that part run by the president does the spending. If the choice is a congressional mandated shutdown, if the Congress does not specifically list which agencies are funded and defunded, they are sinking their own boat.

A classic example: (don't remember the exact date) Theodore Rooseveldt decided to send a US Navy fleet around the world. When Congress told him they would not fund it, he told them, I already have enough to get it half way around the world. You figure out how to get it back. Congress caved. At that time and place they felt the national embarrassment of leaving a fleet stranded was more important than making a power play.

Unless those in congress are totally ignorant of history, they will not let the threat of a shut down go through. It will backfire on them.

 

[daveyb99]

Is it odd if I say that I look forward to the idea of the government shutting down for a long period of time (oh, lets say, until August)?

It's not like our society would decay any faster without a shutdown.

Although I'm not %100 sure what a long term shutdown would mean.

Well, everything short of Law Enforcement, ATC, Defense would close. Like: National Parks, Road Repairs/Construction (until contracts expire), Office Work, Social Security (no new enrollments), Medicare (no doctors getting paid), possibly Courts, non-Defense activities (stuff retirees would access), maybe the VA, IRS (no processing of tax returns) ... well I could go on, but you get the picture.

Sure, it sounds great to 'shut it down', but in reality, lots of daily activities we access would end.

As a note: the ACTUAL cost of government is really about 10-15% of the budget, or about ~$450 Billion/YR.

The New York Times did a great graphic on the FY2011 and FY2010 Budget.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/02/01/us/budget.html

 

[Ryan]

Anyone in or out of government that does not think the choice is Obamba's needs a lesson in the basic separation of powers.

Not really. If the Republican-led House and the Democratic-led Senate can't get together and pass a bill that's identical, there won't be anything for Obama to sign or not sign. Certainly he can try to influence the lawmakers into passing a bill that they can agree on and he can sign, but the ball is squarely in the Legislative Branch's court.

I do agree that a shutdown (like in '95/'96) will benefit the Democrats more than the Republicans. A shutdown would end up costing more money in the long run as well, so it's in the nation's best interest to get another CRA (or FY2011 budget) signed ASAP.

Also, it's "Obama", not "Obamba".

 

[Train2104]

Is the shutdown still on for March 4?

 

[Tracktwentynine]

Is the shutdown still on for March 4?

Congress has not adopted a continuing resolution yet, so the government could still shut down on March 4. But it is still possible that Congress will work something out. However, with every day that passes, the chances of averting a shutdown grow slimmer. I think the odds favor at least a short-term shutdown.

 

[Bob Dylan]

:help: If nothing else this thread should serve as proof that most Americans don't have a clue how the Government works! Cant believe that Amtrak fans still don't know that Amtrak employees are NOT Government employees! And what's happening in the various States ( ie Wisconson,Ohio,Florida etc.) as the Tea-Party/Repub Cowards Slash and Burn stooges try to dismantle the Best System on earth also shows that the Majority that didnt bother to Vote last time are finally waking up and wondering what's going on??? Wait until NO Government Checks go out to these NO Nothings(intentional spelling!), perhaps it will actually make them realize that doing the Heavy Lifting for the Rich Greedheads and the Corporations isn't in their interest!

Disclaimer: I am a retired Government employee and receive TWO Government Checks plus am on Socialized Medicine, Medicare!!!!

 

[Tracktwentynine]

:help: If nothing else this thread should serve as proof that most Americans don't have a clue how the Government works! Cant believe that Amtrak fans still don't know that Amtrak employees are NOT Government employees! And what's going on in the various States as the Tea-Party Slash and Burn idiots try to dismantle the best system on earth also shows that the majority that didnt bother to vote last time are finally waking up and wondering what's going on??? Wait until NO Government checks go out to these no nothings, perhaps it will actually make them realize that doing the heavy lifting for the Rich Greedheads and the corporations isn't in their interest!

Since I started this thread, I presume your reply is directed at least partially at me.

Trust me. I know how government works. I have 2 degrees in how government works, in fact. I also know that Amtrak employees are not government employees.

However, Amtrak does get a significant portion of its subsidy from the federal government, and since I have travel planned for March 4, I thought it would be prudent to ask if anyone remembered what happened the last time. Unlike many of the people on this forum, I'm not old enough to have ridden the Panama Limited or the Coast Daylight. In fact, the last time the government shut down, I was 10. And on my school trip to Washington during the shutdown, the one thing that I remember clearly was everything, everything being closed.

 

[Bob Dylan]

:hi: No, I wasnt refering to you, my comments are directed to those that don't have a clue about how the Government and our so called Free Enterprise System actually work! Usually dont try to use Shakespeare in my posts but to paraphrase: "Let the T-Pubs shut down the Government though the Heavens Fall!" If it happens (compromise is how our system has always worked , our Founding Fathers set it up that way, you can look it up!), the anti-Government types who actually ARE the Government! will pay the price in the 2012 Elections! First prediction for 2012. :excl: :excl: :excl:

 

[AlanB]

However, Amtrak does get a significant portion of its subsidy from the federal government, and since I have travel planned for March 4, I thought it would be prudent to ask if anyone remembered what happened the last time. Unlike many of the people on this forum, I'm not old enough to have ridden the Panama Limited or the Coast Daylight. In fact, the last time the government shut down, I was 10. And on my school trip to Washington during the shutdown, the one thing that I remember clearly was everything, everything being closed.

A prolonged government shutdown would eventually impact Amtrak, as they wouldn't get all the funding that they need from the Fed. But my guess is that currently Amtrak could probably survive at least 2 to 3 months without any operational problems and they might even be able to stretch that to 6 months by holding back on loan payments, pension contributions, capital work, etc.

So bottom line is that your trip is safe. Those with plans for the summer and to the Gathering in the fall could be in trouble with a prolonged shutdown. Of course if the Fed is shut down so long as to reach the summer without an agreement, we're all going to have much bigger problems to worry about than whether or not Amtrak is still running.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Amtrak would not shut down, I don't think, for at least six months, I would imagine. I think Amtrak could run the major portions of its system, primarily the NEC, for at least a year and a half with little or no funding, if they set themselves up to do so. Furthermore, the state owned services, such as North Carolina's Piedmont, the Cascades, and especially California's services wouldn't be impacted at all. If this government shutdown affects Amtrak heavily, it will, as Alan pointed out, be the least of our problems.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

If the Govt is shut down for six months, the least of our worries will be Amtrak..