First Day of Amtrak California Zephyr Wyoming Detour

[Tennessee Traveler]

Just noticed CZ#6 is already in Wyoming on the detour. Will be interesting to see what time it arrives in Denver? Right now indicators say will be 20+ minutues late. Wonder if that is based on the Colorado route? Someone earlier indicated the Wyoming route was faster with no stops so Denver arrival may be as much as 2 hours early around 4 PM. I'll be doing the Wyoming detour to Denver June 4 so this inquiring mind will be checking arrival times next few days.

 

[MrEd]

I am riding #6 today, we are expected to arrive Denver 2 hours early. We did hit many freight trains and had many waits but still expect to be early.

 

[jis]

We did hit many freight trains.

I know what you mean, but hitting freight trains in general may not be a good idea

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

Amtrak 6 arrived in Denver 7:08 PM or 30 minutes late today(Saturday May 16). Not sure why some say train would arrive 2 hours early. MrEd, can you verify this?

 

[railiner]

The 'early' prediction was probably based on previous SFZ running time. But since the train has no "first class" timetable status as it did back in those years, when the Union Pacific virtually "gave it the railroad", it now probably goes 'in-the-hole' for every freight train it encounters, and instead gets "railroaded", hence the late arrival.....

 

[jis]

It hardly had any first class status even back then sorry to say having experienced it back then. The early arrival prediction is based on experience with recent detours and has not much to do with SFZ or Pioneer timings.

 

[MrEd]

We did arrive a little late due to frieght congestion on UP detour route, spent 20 minutes in denver. Now sitting in iowa waiting for coal train derailment to clear. The detour was nice for the first three or four hours.

 

[Agent]

We did arrive a little late due to frieght congestion on UP detour route, spent 20 minutes in denver. Now sitting in iowa waiting for coal train derailment to clear. The detour was nice for the first three or four hours.

From what I heard, you were lucky not to have been put back on the UP at Omaha for another detour.

 

[Agent]

We did arrive a little late due to frieght congestion on UP detour route, spent 20 minutes in denver. Now sitting in iowa waiting for coal train derailment to clear. The detour was nice for the first three or four hours.

Here's a picture of your train passing the derailment taken by a friend.

 

[railiner]

It hardly had any first class status even back then sorry to say having experienced it back then. The early arrival prediction is based on experience with recent detours and has not much to do with SFZ or Pioneer timings.

I have to disagree...somewhere in my archives I have a 1970's UP operating timetable, which showed trains 5 and 6 as "First Class" trains, and it also had a 90 mph speed limit.

Many times, the UP received Train No. 6 an hour or two late at Ogden from the SP, and then made a heroic effort to make up that time by Denver....a very different UP than that of today.....

 

[chakk]

UP mainline across Wyoming is all double track, so very unlikely that Amtrak detouring trains will put in the hole for freights. But whether Amtrak gets to run around slower moving freights in front of it depends on the spacing of traffic on the opposing main.

 

[Palmetto]

I think class designations of train types is an employee timetable thing. I have an B&M employee timetable from the 60's, and on certain divisions, passenger trains were designated as "first class", while freight trains were designated as "third class". Nothing got to be "second class" on that railroad!

Pejorative, I guess.

 

[jis]

It hardly had any first class status even back then sorry to say having experienced it back then. The early arrival prediction is based on experience with recent detours and has not much to do with SFZ or Pioneer timings.

I have to disagree...somewhere in my archives I have a 1970's UP operating timetable, which showed trains 5 and 6 as "First Class" trains, and it also had a 90 mph speed limit.
Many times, the UP received Train No. 6 an hour or two late at Ogden from the SP, and then made a heroic effort to make up that time by Denver....a very different UP than that of today.....

I have no doubt that it was marked First Class in the employee TT. But the delays that I faced during my travels back then were only slightly less than now, and that was in the face of much less dense freight traffic too. I just meant in that sense. Of course one could disagree on that point and that is fine. :hi:

 

[chakk]

#5 was 30 minutes early today into SAC, with 3 coaches on front and 3 sleepers on rear.

 

[zephyr17]

It hardly had any first class status even back then sorry to say having experienced it back then. The early arrival prediction is based on experience with recent detours and has not much to do with SFZ or Pioneer timings.

I have to disagree...somewhere in my archives I have a 1970's UP operating timetable, which showed trains 5 and 6 as "First Class" trains, and it also had a 90 mph speed limit.
Many times, the UP received Train No. 6 an hour or two late at Ogden from the SP, and then made a heroic effort to make up that time by Denver....a very different UP than that of today.....

I have no doubt that it was marked First Class in the employee TT. But the delays that I faced during my travels back then were only slightly less than now, and that was in the face of much less dense freight traffic too. I just meant in that sense. Of course one could disagree on that point and that is fine. :hi:

"First Class" meant it had rights over all trains of either direction of inferior class and if it was traveling in the "superior" direction (don't know what that was for UP), rights over those, too. That, like anything, could be overridden by the dispatcher by train order. Trainorders were sent to manned stations and were hooped up, not sent by radio.

Unless changed by trainorder, that meant that all inferior trains had to be in the clear before the First Class train's timetable time at that station. If the First Class train was late they had to stay in the clear until it passed, unless directed otherwise by train order.

That was the very basics of timetable-and-trainorder dispatching.

One bit of trivia is the the RGZ was in D&RGW's timetable as a SECOND CLASS train, so their fast freights were superior and they could retain dispatching flexiblity on single track mountain railroad.. That was one of the reasons they did not join Amtrak. Not that the RGZ's operation was anything but First Class in any other sense of the term.

 

[traveler]

QUESTION: So if I read the below correctly, the train is NOT on detour May 23 through May 31, right?

California Zephyr Trains 5 and 6: Detour between Denver and Salt Lake City Effective May 16 - 22 and June 1 - 8, 2015

Due to track work being performed by Union Pacific Railroad, Trains 5 and 6 will operate on an alternate route between Denver and Salt Lake City on the dates shown above. Both trains will detour through southern Wyoming affecting service at stations between Denver and Salt Lake City. Passengers traveling on these dates should be aware that Trains 5 and 6 will not travel on its normal route through the Rocky Mountains and along the Colorado River. The detour route is less mountainous than the regular route through the Colorado River Canyon. It follows a portion of the historic transcontinental Union Pacific route completed in 1869 that offers views of broad vistas, wildlife and high plains.

 

[chakk]

Correct. But you might want to check back regularly on the Amtrak special notices page for any changes in the work schedule on the regular route. There has been an unusually large amount of snow and rain in the Colorado Rockies so far this May, which might upset the pre-planned work schedule.

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

Guest traveler, you are correct. I will be traveling to Glenwood Springs next Friday(May 29) on CZ5 and departing on Sunday May 31 on CZ5 to Emeryville. Both days the train is expected to travel through Colorado and not on the Wyoming route. I return from Emeryville to Denver arriving Thursday, June 4, and that train is scheduled to be routed through Wyoming. If you have a reservation, Amtrak would have notified you if you were travelng through Wyoming. I did get the notice for my return trip to Denver but not for the May 29 and 31 trip to Glenwood Springs.

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

Interesting anxiety creator--Amtrak.com today(5/31) has already stopped status updates for stations between Denver and Salt Lake City indicating the trains are on are on the Wyoming detour. Thankfully, Track a Train shows otherwise with no. 6 already in southern Utah approaching Colorado while the no. 5 is at Denver with an estimated GSC departure 4 minutes late. I am boarding Train 5 today in Glenwood Springs bound for Emeryville and today is the last train through Glenwood Springs until June 9 due to the track work.

 

[Opiatephoto]

Looks like it's about 3 hours late today. It gets much later and I miss my connection in Chicago. If I'd of known about the detour I'd of resecheduled my trip, but I made reservations months ago. I hope they can fit full size touring bicycles in boxes on their busses.

 

[TiBike]

Should be no problem, even for a big Amtrak bike box.

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

Just arrived Denver on Amtrak #6 that departed Emeryville June 3. We were actually ahead of time all the way to Elko, NV. From Elko to SLC we lost over an hour and a half. We departed SLC 5:02 AM MT and the ride through Wyoming was like a freight line traffic jam. We regularly stopped and waited for our turn resulting in an 18 hour journey arriving Denver 11:45 PM June 4 almost 5 hours late. Just checked and the train is over 7 hours late in Nebraska. Looks like a 9 PM or later arrival in Chicago.

My observation was the train OBS crew were excellent. "Janelle" was my SCA. Conductor was informative but I could hardly hear him over the PA system. Arrived to a dark and stormy night(thunder and hail) in Denver. Now watching the rain outside my hotel room. The scenery in Wyoming was good and I enjoyed the ride. But I would not want to do it again. 18 hours without a fresh air break is just too long.

 

[Agent]

#6(03) has been stopped for two hours now at Saronville, Nebraska.

 

[KmH]

18 hours without a fresh air break is just too long.

When the train is stopped on a siding waiting to continue, go down to the boarding vestibule door.

Open the window in the door, and stick just your nose out to get some 'fresh' air.

Heck, I often do that when the train is blazing down the tracks.

Note: I don't open the window if OBS are in the vestibule.

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

Wow. Just checked and #6(6/3) is now 12 hours late near Creston, Iowa. In better news, sun is shining for now in Denver. And, OBS Chief, I feel I have to abide by those strongly worded warning signs telling me not to open the window nor the door. Thankfully, I am not a smoker so no problem not getting the fresh air break. For whatever reason #6 lost another 7 hours after departing Denver would be so hard for me to endure.