Coastal Route On East Coast

[xyzzy]

You'll get a lot of debate over the comment "the SAL had the faster routes". Let's think about Richmond-Tampa.

RIchmond-Petersburg, advantage ACL which didn't have to run through Main St Station and bypassed slow trackage in downtown Petersburg.

Petersburg-Savannah, advantage ACL (481 miles) which had a pancake-flat, arrow-straight railroad with ATS that allowed 90 mph running until the late 1960s. The SAL (477 miles), limited to 79 mph max, is hilly and curvy... so much so that SAL diverted most of its freight Hamlet-Dillon-Charleston-Savannah on a secondary line that was abandoned shortly after 1967.

Savannah-Jacksonville, clear advantage SAL (139 miles) although their line didn't have anywhere near the capacity of the ACL (171 miles via Nahunta). Much of the SAL in Georgia ran on trestles over swampland... very expensive to maintain and no hope of double-tracking.

Jacksonville-Tampa, basically a toss-up. ACL 239 miles, SAL 211 miles.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

When the FEC went on the violent strike in 1963, how did the ACL convince the rival SAL to handle its passenger trains between Auburndale and Miami? I read that they two roads first proposed merging in 1958, so perhaps they were already cooperating until the eventual merger in 1967? Or perhaps the ICC ordered them to, in the interest of public safety, (look at the warnings the FEC posted on their timetable between 1965 and the end of their passenger service in 1968....http://www.getcruising.com/cgi/museum.cgi?img=fec65tt2.jpg&class=fec

Exactly how violent was the FEC strike starting in 1963? Did anyone actually get killed, or was there simply a slew of threats?

Perhaps more relevant to the ACL vs. SAL issue: lines which stop at every city along the way usually do much better than direct express "bypass" lines, even when the latter are faster. This is true for both freight and passenger traffic. The ACL had routes which hit most of the cities of the time; the SAL had the faster routes which bypassed them (with a couple of exceptions like Raleigh and Tampa), which is worse.

I completely disagree. Nonstop flights have all but replaced one-stop, two-stop, and multi-stop flights. High-speed trains with few stops have increasingly replaced local trains around the world.

Nobody gets on at Duchesne, Utah. Nobody gets on at Craig, Colorado. Tons of people get on at Salt Lake City, Utah.

You'll get a lot of debate over the comment "the SAL had the faster routes". Let's think about Richmond-Tampa.

RIchmond-Petersburg, advantage ACL which didn't have to run through Main St Station and bypassed slow trackage in downtown Petersburg.

Petersburg-Savannah, advantage ACL (481 miles) which had a pancake-flat, arrow-straight railroad with ATS that allowed 90 mph running until the late 1960s. The SAL (477 miles), limited to 79 mph max, is hilly and curvy... so much so that SAL diverted most of its freight Hamlet-Dillon-Charleston-Savannah on a secondary line that was abandoned shortly after 1967.

Savannah-Jacksonville, clear advantage SAL (139 miles) although their line didn't have anywhere near the capacity of the ACL (171 miles via Nahunta). Much of the SAL in Georgia ran on trestles over swampland... very expensive to maintain and no hope of double-tracking.

Jacksonville-Tampa, basically a toss-up. ACL 239 miles, SAL 211 miles.

Sounds like PRR vs NYC. The Twentieth Century Limited, at one time, beat the Broadway Limited with 15:30 over 16:00.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

I've visited both the Northern Atlantic branch and the Gulf Coast branch[of the Redneck Riviera] and liked them both.

Highway 90 along the Mississippi Gulf shore is really extraordinary, with

the sandy beach and Gulf waters on one side and houses and businesses

on the inland side.

Touring the Jefferson Davis Home the guide told us that the beach had been

created when the Army Corps of Engineers pumped sand from offshore.

I probably didn't make friends when I piped up, federal spending on things

like that can make our lives better. . . .

Quick comment on the Jefferson Davis home.....I spent an entire day on a volunteer project to clear debris from the lawn around the home and library, that had been deposited there by Katrina. I was amazed at what ad come out of the water! Rusted pieces of metal, anchors, all sorts of bricks and masonry, etc. by the end of the day, 25 of us had cleared the property and had aches and pains in places we had never thought of! At that time, the home was still boarded up and had not been touched.

Thanks for your hard work. A worthy contribution.

Of course, Jefferson Davis met the Constitutional definition

of treason -- "levying war against" the U.S. -- along with his

generals from Robert E. Lee on down. (I say this descended

on my father's side from a Colonel in the Confederate Calvary

and on my mother's side from a Major, a Quartermaster, in

the Confederate Army.)

But history should be preserved the better to be told, and

Davis's "retirement home" helps to tell an important part of

the story. It's also a beautiful building and site, telling of a

different era. I'm sure you know the house has been very

nicely restored. Inevitably, it's not quite the same thing as

it was (like George Washington's hatchet, where "the blade

has been replaced three times and the handle four"). It does

the job. I worry when the next huge storm surge hits, but,

what can you do.

I'm skeptical that restoring the Sunset Limited across its entire

Eastern length thru the almost empty inland parts of the Florida

Panhandle would be worth doing. New Orleans-Gulfport-Jefferson

Davis Home-Biloxi-Mobile seems a natural. Then from Mobile I'd

head up Montgomery-Birmingham-Atlanta. But I don't see it as

a new route being allowed by Congress, much less being funded.

That stretch outside of New Orleans has miles of trestles and bridges

giving good water views. Until we get a train, take Highway 90.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

When the FEC went on the violent strike in 1963, how did the ACL convince the rival SAL to handle its passenger trains between Auburndale and Miami? I read that they two roads first proposed merging in 1958, so perhaps they were already cooperating until the eventual merger in 1967? Or perhaps the ICC ordered them to, in the interest of public safety, (look at the warnings the FEC posted on their timetable between 1965 and the end of their passenger service in 1968....http://www.getcruising.com/cgi/museum.cgi?img=fec65tt2.jpg&class=fec

Exactly how violent was the FEC strike starting in 1963? Did anyone actually get killed, or was there simply a slew of threats?

Perhaps more relevant to the ACL vs. SAL issue: lines which stop at every city along the way usually do much better than direct express "bypass" lines, even when the latter are faster. This is true for both freight and passenger traffic. The ACL had routes which hit most of the cities of the time; the SAL had the faster routes which bypassed them (with a couple of exceptions like Raleigh and Tampa), which is worse.

I completely disagree. Nonstop flights have all but replaced one-stop, two-stop, and multi-stop flights. High-speed trains with few stops have increasingly replaced local trains around the world.

. . .

Let me know when there's nonstop flights between NYC and El Paso. I've been changing planes in Dallas-Ft Worth my entire life.

I still change at DFW when going to San Antonio, for that matter. A non-stop flight was introduced, with higher fares to reflect its better timetable. When I look online it's either too pricey, or sold out. LOL. I always choose a cheaper one from the dozen or so flights connecting at DFW.

Southerners used to say, "To go to Hell you'd have to change planes in Atlanta." AirTrans didn't change that, but made it more so.

If you get out more, or go to booking sites online, you'll find that aside from the 12 or 15 largest cities, most trips will require a connecting stop, or two.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

When the FEC went on the violent strike in 1963, how did the ACL convince the rival SAL to handle its passenger trains between Auburndale and Miami? I read that they two roads first proposed merging in 1958, so perhaps they were already cooperating until the eventual merger in 1967? Or perhaps the ICC ordered them to, in the interest of public safety, (look at the warnings the FEC posted on their timetable between 1965 and the end of their passenger service in 1968....http://www.getcruising.com/cgi/museum.cgi?img=fec65tt2.jpg&class=fec

Exactly how violent was the FEC strike starting in 1963? Did anyone actually get killed, or was there simply a slew of threats?

Perhaps more relevant to the ACL vs. SAL issue: lines which stop at every city along the way usually do much better than direct express "bypass" lines, even when the latter are faster. This is true for both freight and passenger traffic. The ACL had routes which hit most of the cities of the time; the SAL had the faster routes which bypassed them (with a couple of exceptions like Raleigh and Tampa), which is worse.

I completely disagree. Nonstop flights have all but replaced one-stop, two-stop, and multi-stop flights. High-speed trains with few stops have increasingly replaced local trains around the world.

. . .

Let me know when there's nonstop flights between NYC and El Paso. I've been changing planes in Dallas-Ft Worth my entire life.
I still change at DFW when going to San Antonio, for that matter. A non-stop flight was introduced, with higher fares to reflect its better timetable. When I look online it's either too pricey, or sold out. LOL. I always choose a cheaper one from the dozen or so flights connecting at DFW.

Southerners used to say, "To go to Hell you'd have to change planes in Atlanta." AirTrans didn't change that, but made it more so.

If you get out more, or go to booking sites online, you'll find that aside from the 12 or 15 largest cities, most trips will require a connecting stop, or two.

What I mean that the flight from New York to Dallas does not stop in Nashville to pick up/drop off passengers. That is a nonstop flight, not a one-stop flight. Connections are not stops for the flight, they are a change of flights.

 

[xyzzy]

I completely disagree. Nonstop flights have all but replaced one-stop, two-stop, and multi-stop flights.

You must not fly Southwest much.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I completely disagree. Nonstop flights have all but replaced one-stop, two-stop, and multi-stop flights.

You must not fly Southwest much.

I've flown them once and not again. I don't fly domestic anymore, last time was three years ago.

My experience is that no one gets on at Duchesne or Craig, but tons of people get on at Salt Lake City.

 

[railiner]

.

Sounds like PRR vs NYC. The Twentieth Century Limited, at one time, beat the Broadway Limited with 15:30 over 16:00.

I believe you got that one reversed, Swadian....The Broadway for a brief period ran Chicago to New York in 15:30 over its 53 mile shorter route than The Century....