BoltBus is expanding to California

[Swadian Hardcore]

The Bolt buses that I have seen, have GL ownership. Are there also PPB owned Bolt buses? And are the driver's all "Bolt" driver's?

I know at the beginning, when they started up, they "borrowed" driver's (and manager's) from both companies.

I haven't really paid close attention to their operation.......

I know they maintain their buses at PPB's Secaucus garage, and occasionally I see one in The Port, or parked on the midtown streets....

All the buses carry GL legals because of the operating authority - Bolt is a Greyhound entity. PPB purchased the first batch of D45's for them and leased them to Greyhound for Bolt service. This current batch is Greyhound owned and operated on the West Coast. All the drivers are under the Bolt division, but are Greyhound employees officially, all of whom belonging to ATU 1700. You are correct that they borrowed a few from both companies in the beginning - almost all of whom stayed on.

Regarding maintenance facilities, in the Northeast the buses are based out of PPB's Secaucus and Chelsea (Boston) garages, and Greyhound's Philadelphia and DC garages. In the PNW, they are based out of Greyhound's Portland terminal and Seattle garage. In California, it's all LA. About a year ago, Bolt operated service from the Port out of Gate 84 but has since discontinued that to the delight of all parties involved.

Greyhound still has garages in Washington DC and Portland? I thought those garages were already closed. If Greyhound has any garages left in those places, they are probably not full-scale Maintainence Centers like Richmond or Atlanta. I'm pretty sure that for Portland-Sacramento and Portland-Spokane, Greyhound has to rotate Seattle-based G4500's into Portland on the Seattle-Portland runs. Just like how buses on the Reno-San Francisco are rotated in from Los Angeles.

 

[metrolinecoach111]

The Bolt buses that I have seen, have GL ownership. Are there also PPB owned Bolt buses? And are the driver's all "Bolt" driver's?

I know at the beginning, when they started up, they "borrowed" driver's (and manager's) from both companies.

I haven't really paid close attention to their operation.......

I know they maintain their buses at PPB's Secaucus garage, and occasionally I see one in The Port, or parked on the midtown streets....

All the buses carry GL legals because of the operating authority - Bolt is a Greyhound entity. PPB purchased the first batch of D45's for them and leased them to Greyhound for Bolt service. This current batch is Greyhound owned and operated on the West Coast. All the drivers are under the Bolt division, but are Greyhound employees officially, all of whom belonging to ATU 1700. You are correct that they borrowed a few from both companies in the beginning - almost all of whom stayed on.

Regarding maintenance facilities, in the Northeast the buses are based out of PPB's Secaucus and Chelsea (Boston) garages, and Greyhound's Philadelphia and DC garages. In the PNW, they are based out of Greyhound's Portland terminal and Seattle garage. In California, it's all LA. About a year ago, Bolt operated service from the Port out of Gate 84 but has since discontinued that to the delight of all parties involved.

Greyhound still has garages in Washington DC and Portland? I thought those garages were already closed. If Greyhound has any garages left in those places, they are probably not full-scale Maintainence Centers like Richmond or Atlanta. I'm pretty sure that for Portland-Sacramento and Portland-Spokane, Greyhound has to rotate Seattle-based G4500's into Portland on the Seattle-Portland runs. Just like how buses on the Reno-San Francisco are rotated in from Los Angeles.

Greyhound purchased Peter Pan's Tuxedo, MD garage and stores buses at the Portland, OR Greyhound gates overnight. (Portland, OR is a very interesting set-up actually, but very tight on space) You are correct that they rotate buses in and out of Seattle (Seattly as the home base) for maintenance in the PNW. Heavy work is done in Vancouver, B.C. as the Seattle garage cannot handle that type of work.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I didn't realize Greyhound had purchased a garage in Tuxedo, MD. That means they can subtantially increse service out of Washington isntead of using Richmond all the time. They store buses overnight at the Reno station wherever they have space. Usually they don't store in the Ready Lot due to vandalism, instead storing in the little garage, or when that overflows, then they store at the gates. I've seen as many as 5 buses stored overngiht at the gates, but most of the time there's only max 3.

Thanks for the info.

 

[calwatch]

Bolt Bus recently expanded to LA-San Francisco (Transbay Terminal) and LA-Las Vegas (Plaza Hotel). http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/boltbus-expands-from-los-angeles-adds-las-vegas-san-francisco-service-235260791.html

Of course, there is plenty of Greyhound Express between LA-San Francisco and LA-Las Vegas, but that LA Greyhound Terminal is just awful. Union Station of course is also being made miserable to anyone not riding Metrolink and Amtrak (see the thread in the main board) but even having to wait outside, it is still an order of magnitude better than the chaotic LA Greyhound Terminal.

 

[tp49]

I rode Bolt from San Diego to Los Angeles last week. Cost $8 took a little over two hours and the bus was brand new and comfortable. Even better was that there were only three other passengers total on the bus. I though there would be more. Wifi was a bit slow but it was still a good deal for the price and I'm someone who would not ever ride Greyhound again after several bad experiences years ago but I'd ride Bolt again.

 

[rickycourtney]

Union Station of course is also being made miserable to anyone not riding Metrolink and Amtrak (see the thread in the main board) but even having to wait outside, it is still an order of magnitude better than the chaotic LA Greyhound Terminal.

Metro posted this afternoon that Union Station will have a smaller waiting area for BoltBus and Megabus customers.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Again, the LAD Greyhound Terminal didn't seem very bad to me, It's not great but it's OK. You just got to take things into your own hands and not wait to be told what to do. As long as you have a ticket and get on the bus, it's all good from there on out.

Greyhound and Bolt has the same hard product and the same soft product. Thus I don't see why one would hate Greyhound and love Bolt. That would've been different back in the G4500 days, but not anymore. As I said, all Greyhound passengers are required to have ID, which is cutting down on the riff-raff. And the area around the LAD terminal is actually quite safe according to crime records seen here: www.crimemapping,com.

So, if you can get a $10 deal to SFD or SAC, give Greyhound a try, you might not like the LAD station but I'm sure you'll like the bus. It's the same fare for the Coast Route (which is a D4505 anyway) and a lot cheaper than Amtrak. Remember, the vast majority of Greyhound travel is on the bus.

 

[rickycourtney]

Again, despite improvements in the past few years, Greyhound is still fighting it's own reputation.

It will be interesting to see how this service to Las Vegas does... the good news is the stop in Vegas is a block away from Fremont Street (with it's casinos and tourist attractions) and two blocks away from the super-convienent SDX bus (that Megabus also connects to) that takes you right to the strip. The bad news is the stop is at a Greyhound station.

This comment on the BoltBus Facebook page from an interested passenger pretty much sums up the mental hurdle most people will have taking BoltBus (or Greyhound) to Vegas:

I was assuming the Las Vegas stop would be on the strip but am disappointed to find out that it is 5 miles north at the greyhound bus terminal. I'm reading that that is a very seedy area and that the terminal itself is quite scary. I was looking forward to a trip but might have to pass :-( would there be any security improvements to the terminal itself or a shuttle to and from the strip? Otherwise I'm a bit nervous!

I think this person brings up some good points, if Greyhound hopes for the LA-LV BoltBus route to succeed they are going to have to make security very visible at the terminal in Las Vegas. They should also think about providing a separate waiting area for BoltBus passengers (much like it provides a separate waiting area for BoltBus passengers, like it does for Greyhound Express passengers at some stations.)

On the other hand, I think BoltBus adding a stop at the Transbay Terminal in San Francisco will be welcome news for many (even though it's technically at a Greyhound station). Like we discussed, the stop at the West Oakland BART already provided an easy trip into the city, but this stop will remove the mental hurdle for some passengers that "BoltBus doesn't stop in San Francisco."

 

[railiner]

I don't get this 'dissing' of the Las Vegas Greyhound Terminal......It was all part of the same interconnected complex constructed by the Union Pacific back in 1971, that consisted of the Union Plaza Hotel, a large parking garage, and the bus terminal. And incidentally, the future home of the Desert Wind Amtrak station....

it is located at Main and Fremont, the very head of "glitter gulch", the historic downtown Las Vegas.....

There was a long period when Greyhound also made a 'Strip Stop', at a small depot located at the Stardust Hotel, from and to Los Angeles. I don't know why they dropped it, but probably was not used enough.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Agreed, I don't get this constant dislike of the LAD and LVL Greyhound terminals. If you're a bus fan, the LAD terminal is great for spotting, you can stand out on the street and take all the pictures you want. The dumbheaded security guards can't stop you from taking pictures from the street. And that's why I like Greyhound stations with less security, like Reno, because you can take pictures of buses without getting busted.

I think I should really make a guide to help out general bus riders that are not enthusiasts.

 

[calwatch]

The Downtown Vegas stop for Greyhound is actually preferable for the true gambler who likes to stay downtown. Unfortunately that is not most people who go to Vegas now, who are into the food, shows, and other entertainment on the Strip. The biggest issue with the Downtown LA Greyhound station is poor access via transit - not near the Metro Rail system and served by the Line 60 buses which runs every 15-30 minutes, in contrast to a train that runs every 10 minutes or better - and lack of access to long term parking, whereas Union Station has thousands of spaces available for a reasonable $6 a day in the Metro garage.

 

[railiner]

I haven't been to the Los Angeles Greyhound Terminal that they currently use. The last time I was at their LA terminal, they were still in the big multilevel terminal that they had shared with RTD, at 6th and Main, I believe a very convenient downtown location. That terminal was built in 1967 to replace their old terminal located across the street, that was built in 1933.

The new one does seem to be at a poorer location. I did find a very nice photo collection online that shows the real essence of the current terminal....

https://foursquare.com/v/greyhound-bus-lines/4b66f776f964a520b2322be3

It is probably no coincidence that Pacific Greyhound Lines located their earlier terminals at the 6th and Main location, close by the old Pacific Electric interurban terminal, due to their common ownership by the old Southern Pacific Company.......

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

If it's served by Route 60, it might not be so bad because Route 60 is paralleled by Route 760 Rapid. I never knew the 60 went to the Greyhound Terminal, I only knew of the 62, a long route to Hawaiian Gardens.

I'm not very familiar with Los Angeles transit but I do remember some important routes like 2, 70, 450, 720, 794.

 

[Ranzchic]

I can attest to the fact that the reason I don't use Greyhound as much as I would like is that the downtown station is the poor transit connections. I can deal with the riff raffs and various colorful characters just fine. I just can't deal with the poor transit access.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I can attest to the fact that the reason I don't use Greyhound as much as I would like is that the downtown station is the poor transit connections. I can deal with the riff raffs and various colorful characters just fine. I just can't deal with the poor transit access.

Yes, that is indeed a problem. Does the LAD only have Route 62 or does it have Routes 60 and 760 as well? Again, if it actually has 60 and 760, it shouldn't be a big problem. I checked the maps but couldn't find out for sure.

 

[ranzchic]

It is a big problem though. I live in West Hollywood, so I just take either the 704 Rapid bus that goes directly to Union station or transfer to the Red Line at Santa Monica and Vermont and get off at Union Station where Megabus is located. I much prefer taking the Rapid or the subway.

Btw, I am on boltbus now en route to San Diego from LA and the driver just announced that they are cancelling this service after a month because of low ridership. That sucks ass. They really should have done a bit more marketing and advertising. And maybe even incorporated an Orange County stop in there somewhere (Anaheim). It is the second busiest Amtrak route in the country, so cancelling it after a month is a bit premature.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I saw quite a few Bolt D4505's in San Francisco over the last few days. Those things were just like the Greyhound D4505's I rode except that they were painted different. Hell, they even smelled the same! Yep, I could smell them from 50 feet sway and they smelled the same as the Greyhound ones I rode!

Don't know what happened to Bolt down in So Cal. Maybe they'll bring it back when the y have more buses available. I think it should be known that Greyhound is still trying to deal with their fleet shortage, that's why they're buying huge amounts of new buses.

 

[Anderson]

I saw quite a few Bolt D4505's in San Francisco over the last few days. Those things were just like the Greyhound D4505's I rode except that they were painted different. Hell, they even smelled the same! Yep, I could smell them from 50 feet sway and they smelled the same as the Greyhound ones I rode!

Don't know what happened to Bolt down in So Cal. Maybe they'll bring it back when the y have more buses available. I think it should be known that Greyhound is still trying to deal with their fleet shortage, that's why they're buying huge amounts of new buses.

From what I can tell from this discussion, at least part of the problem is lousy connectivity. My guess is that the margins just weren't there to justify using scarce buses on the routes in CA (which just weren't taking off) when they could be reallocated to areas where Bolt is more established. I suspect that, given an equipment surplus, there would have been plans to give the service a few months or a year.

The other possibility is that between Megabus already offering service to Oakland, San Francisco, and San Jose from LAUS (and with the SF stop being basically at 4th and King and the others having good transit-connecting placements), Bolt wasn't able to make inroads without a marketing push. Bolt may use the same terminals, but it's hard to dislodge market share without a marketing budget.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

All this would be so much easier if Greyhound had more coaches. Sure they have some G4500's lying around but those are so unreliable you can't depend on them to do anything.

Right now I suggest that Greyhound operate their Los Angeles schedules with an extra stop at Union Station. The bus could stop at Union Station then driver down Alameda to get to the Maintenence Center.

Sure you got congestion but most passengers would get off at Union Station anyway. I know there's not much space there but should be enough for a quick stop for each coach.

 

[rickycourtney]

Another issue to consider on the LA to SD route: traffic.

The Santa Ana Freeway (the I-5 from LA to OC) is notorious for it's horrendous traffic jams and adding to the problems is a massive construction project to add carpool lanes (meaning there's no lanes for buses to avoid the traffic in). For the moment Amtrak has an advantage here that would be hard for any of these "upscale" intercity buses to overcome.

As far as Greyhound's LA station goes, while it has some Metro bus connections... it's nothing compared to the vast array of connections available at Union Station (Red & Purple Line subways, Gold Line light rail, Silver Line BRT, 8 Metro Local lines, 5 Metro Rapid lines and a bunch of DASH lines, commuter bus services and other shuttles).

There is a proposal to move Greyhound's passenger services (not maintenance/operations) into Union Station when a new bus plaza is built sometime in the next 10/20 years. But I agree with Swadian, Greyhound should consider adding a stop for all buses (especially the Greyhound Express routes) at Union Station.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I guess Greyhound had the right idea pulling out of Los Angeles-San Diego/Tijuana in the first place. For several years, Greyhound had service from Los Angeles to San Diego, only Cruceros international service to target travellers from Mexico.

Now, after merging with Cruceros, they are trying to reinstate a service that they had already cut. Instead of running any Greyhound or Bolt Bus on the Los Angeles-San Diego route, they should just continue with Cruceros Direct.

Meanwhile, the real Greyhound routes from Los Angeles should get that stop in Union Station, although coaches from the east (Phoenix) could just stop at El Monte Transit Center.

Anyway, at least California riders can enjoy a D4505, the same cannot be said for Washington riders that deal with horrifying G4500's. Maybe Greyhound should invest more in the PNW before trying to deal with these comparatively minor problems in California. If they keep neglecting the PNW, pretty soon all the passengers will run away!

 

[tp49]

Another issue to consider on the LA to SD route: traffic.

The Santa Ana Freeway (the I-5 from LA to OC) is notorious for it's horrendous traffic jams and adding to the problems is a massive construction project to add carpool lanes (meaning there's no lanes for buses to avoid the traffic in). For the moment Amtrak has an advantage here that would be hard for any of these "upscale" intercity buses to overcome.

When I rode the Bolt service from San Diego to LA Union Station the bus went up the 405 then took the 110 in LA and didn't take I-5 all the way into downtown. Don't know if that had anything to do with it.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Isn't Interstate 110 even more congested than Interstate 5? I heard that 110 is one of the most congested roads in America!

None of this is a problem in the Bay Area because there's effective HOV lanes. All the San Francisco-Reno coaches run early as long as the weather is good. It used to be worse with the G4500's that had mechanical problem, glad they're gone for now. I think Greyhound should officialy introduce SFD-RNO express service, because they already have the express schedules and the new buses, all they need is some publicity.

Then Greyhound should upgrade Sacramento-Portland as soon as possible because that route is very popular from March to October but it's run with horrible equipment. All they need is 10 D4505's or rebuilt G4500's to upgrade this!

 

[rickycourtney]

The HOV lanes are probably why they take the 110 to the 405 (both of which are some of the busiest freeways in America). But the 110 has the Harbor Transitway which allows the bus to jump over some of the traffic. That route also lets the buses bypass the most congested portion of the 5.

That being said... the 5 between La Jolla and San Clemente lacks carpool lanes and can be very congested during certain parts of the day (that's also the section where Amtrak can go 90 MPH.)

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

So there's pretty mcuh solution for Greyhound here except to get Cruceros back on the route and get their D4505's to replace more G4500's.

Yeah, I know Cruceros can't avoid it but they run international to Mexico, that's the important difference. People were always complaining about Cruceros because their equipment was terrible. I guess Greyhound couldn't resist ressurrecting this popular route with their own equipment even though they made the right choice pulling out before, presumably due to congestion.

Now Greyhound has fully merged with Cruceros, so they can tag some of their own coaches with "Cruceros" to avoid the equipment problem.