BoltBus is expanding to California

[jebr]

I rode Greyhound 15 times this year and all my drivers showed up, none of the buses broke down, and the most delay I have was 5 minutes. I don't know what's wrong with Greyhound's Chicago Garage but this sounds weird to me.

A lot of people complain about Greyhound "losing" their bags, but they actually just forgot it on the bus. Passnegers are responsible for transferring their own luggage when trnasferring buses. I guess most riders are too dumb to read the Baggage Policy.

If the smelly spare bus was a Van Hool, it's probably not owned by Greyhound. Greyhound has multiple state-owned or leased Van Hools which are maintained to very poor condition. I've have smelly buses too, namely G4500s, but I'm happy that Greyhound drove all the G4500s away for a major rebuild.

There very well may have been something wrong with the Chicago garage, because that's where most my trips would feed out of (my last two attempts, one successful, have been MSP - CHI.) Yes, the spare bus was a Greyhound-leased Van Hool.

But, at the end of the day, what I was left with was that Greyhound is going downhill. I probably just got very unlucky (the cancellation was on a day where there were weather delays earlier, but those had cleared by that time when I called in to verify the trip was still on, which at the time I called in they said the trip was still on.) But they're also not "BS reasons," either, and it makes me very skeptical to take Greyhound again, especially since my schedule now works with a competitor's schedule. (Earlier this year my shifts were such that Greyhound had the only overnight schedule I could meet reliably, which made day trips from MSP to Chicago possible.) But if Greyhound can make a new brand that offers a different experience (or even a more consistent experience,) I'll be willing to give it a try.

As an aside, the delays really weren't bothersome. The 20 minutes didn't make or break a connection, and life went on. Heck, with the Empire Builder delays here, a 30 minute delay sounds rather pleasant in comparison!

 

[jebr]

A lot of people complain about Greyhound "losing" their bags, but they actually just forgot it on the bus. Passnegers are responsible for transferring their own luggage when trnasferring buses. I guess most riders are too dumb to read the Baggage Policy.

Talking about this separately: I get this, but it's very different from airline or train travel. Most new passengers who are used to airline travel (or train travel) would think that if they "check" a bag, it will be transferred automatically to the destination. I'm not sure how Greyhound could change this part of it without either doing the transfers themselves or majorly rewording "checked" baggage...maybe something like "you can carry on one bag and you can put one bag below the bus, both of which you must transfer," avoiding "checked baggage" verbiage entirely.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I really don't understand why a driver wouldn't show up, I've never had it happen to me. Drivers are paid by the hour, if they don't show up, they earn no money and they'll probably get sacked. Are you sure the driver didn't show up or were there mechanical problems with the bus? If he really didn't show up, he probably got sick.

For me, the real night-and-day difference is that up until September 2013, all routes west of Reno were dominated by hordes of falling-apart G4500s. Then suddenly in October, the G4500s were gone and brand-new D4505s took over. Snap, just like that. That really made an impression on me.

 

[rickycourtney]

So it looks like the BoltBus service in California will be using D4505 coaches instead of the Prevost X3-45 used in the Northwest and on most of the routes in the Northeast.

LA Metro's blog "The Source" did a post today about the service coming to LAUS, you can read it here. They had nice things to say about the service.

BoltBus D4505 coaches in Downtown LA. Photo courtesy: Anna Chen/Metro

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

What?! These D4505 units have such weird numbers! Three-digit numbers? So first Greyhound goes to five-digit numbers, now three-digit numbers.....

New D4505s were spotted up to 86580, so Greyhound must have 300 of them now. I think they ordered a lot more than just 130 new units. Greyhound sure is getting a huge number of buses. I'll have to ask for a new roster on GTE.

 

[jebr]

I really don't understand why a driver wouldn't show up, I've never had it happen to me. Drivers are paid by the hour, if they don't show up, they earn no money and they'll probably get sacked. Are you sure the driver didn't show up or were there mechanical problems with the bus? If he really didn't show up, he probably got sick.

For me, the real night-and-day difference is that up until September 2013, all routes west of Reno were dominated by hordes of falling-apart G4500s. Then suddenly in October, the G4500s were gone and brand-new D4505s took over. Snap, just like that. That really made an impression on me.

In terms of the driver, I was just told at the counter that they didn't have a driver for the bus. I inferred from that that the driver didn't show, but there may have been a scheduling error as well. They did cancel a few buses earlier in the day due to inclement weather, so maybe the drivers weren't in their normal rotation either. I had inferred that it was a driver no-show since they had originally said the bus trip was going to be on (the weather issues had resolved, and they ran a few routes earlier in the evening) and they didn't know until about an hour before the route was going to head out.
Yeah, new buses would show a turn-around. We've had them out here since at least 2011, as that's the first time I took Greyhound. I think it was a way for them to compete in Midwest markets against Megabus. But they don't seem to have enough in rotation and they seem to overbook and not have adequate backups in place to at least offer a decent experience in their spare buses - even having a way to maybe use an extra Jefferson Lines bus (which has its base in Minneapolis) would have made a better experience. The Rocket Rider buses, if JL had any to spare, would have made a very nice "extra" bus and have most of the amenities I would have expected. Not sure how feasible that is, though.

What?! These D4505 units have such weird numbers! Three-digit numbers? So first Greyhound goes to five-digit numbers, now three-digit numbers.....

New D4505s were spotted up to 86580, so Greyhound must have 300 of them now. I think they ordered a lot more than just 130 new units. Greyhound sure is getting a huge number of buses. I'll have to ask for a new roster on GTE.

Excuse my ignorance, but did Greyhound originally use 4 digit numbers? Maybe they're reverting to that. The picture seems to have a 4-digit number, just with a leading zero. Sometimes the leading zero will still be important, as it's part of the first 1,000 of the 10,000. Pure speculation, though.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Yes, Greyhound did origginally have 4-digit numbers but they should start with 9000 if they're going back to 4-digits with the D4505. Usually a bus number starting with 0 means either a leased bus or a state-owned, company-owned buses don't have that. Maybe there D4505s are indeed leased.

As far as the new Greyhound buses go, they run all around the country now, regardless of Express or Local. There's a lot of them in Denver where no Megabus is present. I think Greyhound is not only trying to compete against Megabus, but to improve their image as a whole. Before the new D4505s were delivered to Los Angeles, a lot of Express buses from Los Angeles were subbed with stinking old G4500s.

I really don't think the driver just decided to skip a run. I did watch a video on YouTube where a female driver of a 102DL3 tried to drive into a drive-thru at a fast food restaurent, her bus ended up bieng swamped in the mub. Maybe you just got back luck and that was supposed to be your driver, or maybe it was that inclement weather you mentioned.

 

[metrolinecoach111]

What?! These D4505 units have such weird numbers! Three-digit numbers? So first Greyhound goes to five-digit numbers, now three-digit numbers.....

New D4505s were spotted up to 86580, so Greyhound must have 300 of them now. I think they ordered a lot more than just 130 new units. Greyhound sure is getting a huge number of buses. I'll have to ask for a new roster on GTE.

The three-digits are the fleet numbers of the Bolt-operated equipment in the NE and PNW - its a series that begins with 0800 and goes from there.

 

[metrolinecoach111]

I really don't understand why a driver wouldn't show up, I've never had it happen to me. Drivers are paid by the hour, if they don't show up, they earn no money and they'll probably get sacked. Are you sure the driver didn't show up or were there mechanical problems with the bus? If he really didn't show up, he probably got sick.

For me, the real night-and-day difference is that up until September 2013, all routes west of Reno were dominated by hordes of falling-apart G4500s. Then suddenly in October, the G4500s were gone and brand-new D4505s took over. Snap, just like that. That really made an impression on me.

In terms of the driver, I was just told at the counter that they didn't have a driver for the bus. I inferred from that that the driver didn't show, but there may have been a scheduling error as well. They did cancel a few buses earlier in the day due to inclement weather, so maybe the drivers weren't in their normal rotation either. I had inferred that it was a driver no-show since they had originally said the bus trip was going to be on (the weather issues had resolved, and they ran a few routes earlier in the evening) and they didn't know until about an hour before the route was going to head out.
Yeah, new buses would show a turn-around. We've had them out here since at least 2011, as that's the first time I took Greyhound. I think it was a way for them to compete in Midwest markets against Megabus. But they don't seem to have enough in rotation and they seem to overbook and not have adequate backups in place to at least offer a decent experience in their spare buses - even having a way to maybe use an extra Jefferson Lines bus (which has its base in Minneapolis) would have made a better experience. The Rocket Rider buses, if JL had any to spare, would have made a very nice "extra" bus and have most of the amenities I would have expected. Not sure how feasible that is, though.

What?! These D4505 units have such weird numbers! Three-digit numbers? So first Greyhound goes to five-digit numbers, now three-digit numbers.....

New D4505s were spotted up to 86580, so Greyhound must have 300 of them now. I think they ordered a lot more than just 130 new units. Greyhound sure is getting a huge number of buses. I'll have to ask for a new roster on GTE.

Excuse my ignorance, but did Greyhound originally use 4 digit numbers? Maybe they're reverting to that. The picture seems to have a 4-digit number, just with a leading zero. Sometimes the leading zero will still be important, as it's part of the first 1,000 of the 10,000. Pure speculation, though.

Here's a summary of Greyhound scheduling practices with drivers and buses:

DRIVERS

You have two types of drivers - regulars and extras. Regular drivers have an assigned run that in California involve overnights from their origin terminal and back the next day. The typical rotations are 2 on - 2 off, 4 on - 2 off, or 6 on- 1 off. It all depends on the service. If a driver "books off" or calls out, their full regular run is open. These runs are put on the "board" and assigned by a dispatcher in Dallas, TX to an "extra driver." Extra drivers do not have regular runs and go where they are needed. In the example above, one extra driver may pull the run to the destination, but go somewhere else afterwards because of the work. This leaves the return open for another driver. In the event you described, the regular driver was out, the location did not have an extra, so you have to wait for someone to get there.

BUSES

Greyhound Operations in Dallas, TX strategically plans where buses go on a daily basis. To accomodate the expected flows of passengers, they look at historical demand and current bookings. They will "deadhead" equipment pending their maintenance standing to a location with expected overflow or to the buses' home terminal when needed. These buses are positioned accordingly, but many times are out of place when broken down or not used. Therefore, if a location that was expecting that extra bus doesn't get one, they have to use what they have. Sometimes that means an older, but useable piece.

Regarding the earlier comment with the G's in Seattle, they are there because it's relatively short miles in that regional route pool compared to some of the other locations and their pools. They want to use the newer buses generally in areas that have heavy demand and traffic and in longer distances.

Express won't come to the PNW because there's no need - those metropolitan areas have the demographic Bolt targets (young professionals 20-30). In the short time since they started, they've come to carry that region.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

@metrolinecoach111, does Greyhound still have the All-48 States ADA pool? Or are all the buses assigned to regional route pools now? I thought the Los Angeles-Dallas was run with the G4500 for a very long time and the Sacramento-Portland is apparently still run with the G4500. I don't think those qualify as "short" routes.

Do you have a current Greyhound roster? I'm looking for one.

Thanks.

 

[metrolinecoach111]

They have that pool, but have divided it according to their home maintenance bases. It's an equipment rotation, maintenance routine thing.

Sac-Portland is a haul, but it's limited miles - that's the farthest those buses will typically go, unless there's some issues with other buses, deadheads for positioning, or heavy days such as the Thanksgiving Holiday.

 

[railiner]

I recall when 4 digit GL buses that had "zero" as the first digit indicated they were a "combo-coach".....rebuilt Scenicruiser's and later MC-7's, that had a varying amount of seats removed from the rear, a bulkhead installed, and a side door cut in high on the curb side for loading GPX express with a belt-loader. 0600 series were 18 seater's, and 0700 series were 30 seater's....

But that was back in the 1970's....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

They have that pool, but have divided it according to their home maintenance bases. It's an equipment rotation, maintenance routine thing.

Sac-Portland is a haul, but it's limited miles - that's the farthest those buses will typically go, unless there's some issues with other buses, deadheads for positioning, or heavy days such as the Thanksgiving Holiday.

But aren't there buses in that pool running all over the place instead of to just one base? I've spotted 6575 in Reno and someone spotted it in Atlantaa few monthes later. 6505 has been spotted in New York, Oklahoma City, and Greenville. Aren't these just jumping around bases?

 

[metrolinecoach111]

They have that pool, but have divided it according to their home maintenance bases. It's an equipment rotation, maintenance routine thing.

Sac-Portland is a haul, but it's limited miles - that's the farthest those buses will typically go, unless there's some issues with other buses, deadheads for positioning, or heavy days such as the Thanksgiving Holiday.

But aren't there buses in that pool running all over the place instead of to just one base? I've spotted 6575 in Reno and someone spotted it in Atlantaa few monthes later. 6505 has been spotted in New York, Oklahoma City, and Greenville. Aren't these just jumping around bases?

Yes there are. The pools and home bases of the buses are set, but operational factors dictate where buses actually are. As a rule of thumb, the planners generally try to keep the buses within their regions and will try to get them back to their domiciles within the constraints of the operation. But, Greyhound is a national company, and the buses if not earmarked for a specific purpose (Lucky Streak in NJ, the state-owned pools, charter), are fair game for positioning moves.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

They have that pool, but have divided it according to their home maintenance bases. It's an equipment rotation, maintenance routine thing.

Sac-Portland is a haul, but it's limited miles - that's the farthest those buses will typically go, unless there's some issues with other buses, deadheads for positioning, or heavy days such as the Thanksgiving Holiday.

But aren't there buses in that pool running all over the place instead of to just one base? I've spotted 6575 in Reno and someone spotted it in Atlantaa few monthes later. 6505 has been spotted in New York, Oklahoma City, and Greenville. Aren't these just jumping around bases?

Yes there are. The pools and home bases of the buses are set, but operational factors dictate where buses actually are. As a rule of thumb, the planners generally try to keep the buses within their regions and will try to get them back to their domiciles within the constraints of the operation. But, Greyhound is a national company, and the buses if not earmarked for a specific purpose (Lucky Streak in NJ, the state-owned pools, charter), are fair game for positioning moves.

I guess Greyhound dosen't adhere to their bus regions very tightly. I've seen a Lucky Streak 102DL3 parked in Los Angeles and another was spotted in St. Louis.....

 

[railiner]

It all goes out the window on the major holidays like Thanksgiving.....

Our buses are sometimes used on Albany-Buffalo-Cleveland schedules as part of our pool with GL. But oftentimes on major holidays, when there is a shortage of equipment, our buses can wind up in Chicago, Washington, or who-knows-where. Actually, we do know where now....now that we have GPS telemetry units in all our buses.....

 

[metrolinecoach111]

It all goes out the window on the major holidays like Thanksgiving.....

Our buses are sometimes used on Albany-Buffalo-Cleveland schedules as part of our pool with GL. But oftentimes on major holidays, when there is a shortage of equipment, our buses can wind up in Chicago, Washington, or who-knows-where. Actually, we do know where now....now that we have GPS telemetry units in all our buses.....

You mean when it works Gotta love CADEC.

When Bolt first started, they pressed the older DL's from Peter Pan into 48-state service during the summer months to augment capacity. That quickly stopped when they realized they could make more money having those buses stay in the Northeast.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Do you mean those Adirondack Trailways buses end up on the BOS-CLD and NYD-CHD runs? That sure is all over the place. What's CADEC and OSC? I keep hearing about OSC dispatching from the drivers. Where are Greyhound's dispatchers? The Dallas HQ is a tiny little building. Are they all in that little building, are they in the Dallas Maintainence Center, or the Dallas Terminal?

If they had sent Peter Pan buses into the 48-States pool, that would end them up as far west as San Francisco! I do think Peter Pan still has some old 1993 102DL3's and maybe even some 102C3's.

 

[railiner]

Trailways of New York buses do sometimes get used on all or parts of the BOS-ALB-SYR-BUF-CLE (I-90) line,, or NYC or TOR (table 170). They are never sent on the NYC-CLE-CHI (I-80) line (table 201). If they end in CLE on a very busy holiday, they can sometimes be sent on to Chicago, but rarely beyond there. They will turn them back to 'home territory', ASAP.

The reason they are used on the former route, is the carrier operating the bus, even a thru bus, between ALB and SYR can be either GL or ADT, and from SYR to BUF either GL or NYT. It's part of a complicated pool arrangement to balance both driver and bus prorated mileage share over a period of time.

Personally, I like the pool arrangement GL and PPB have, where they pool schedules, but the drivers only drive their own companies equipment....they do not interline their buses like TNY and GL do. I don't know how they do it over at Bolt....

As for the CADEC, TNY buses employ a different GPS technology that is either more reliable, or repaired ASAP if down....

 

[metrolinecoach111]

Do you mean those Adirondack Trailways buses end up on the BOS-CLD and NYD-CHD runs? That sure is all over the place. What's CADEC and OSC? I keep hearing about OSC dispatching from the drivers. Where are Greyhound's dispatchers? The Dallas HQ is a tiny little building. Are they all in that little building, are they in the Dallas Maintainence Center, or the Dallas Terminal?

If they had sent Peter Pan buses into the 48-States pool, that would end them up as far west as San Francisco! I do think Peter Pan still has some old 1993 102DL3's and maybe even some 102C3's.

Do you mean those Adirondack Trailways buses end up on the BOS-CLD and NYD-CHD runs? That sure is all over the place. What's CADEC and OSC? I keep hearing about OSC dispatching from the drivers. Where are Greyhound's dispatchers? The Dallas HQ is a tiny little building. Are they all in that little building, are they in the Dallas Maintainence Center, or the Dallas Terminal?

If they had sent Peter Pan buses into the 48-States pool, that would end them up as far west as San Francisco! I do think Peter Pan still has some old 1993 102DL3's and maybe even some 102C3's.

Yes, the Trailways NY buses do go as far as Cleveland and I have heard of Chicago. Greyhound really tries not to do this because of what they have to pay NY/Adirondack Trailways in using the equipment (it would be considered a rental in that agreement). CADEC is the security/GPS system installed on all Greyhound owned buses. OSC is Operations Support Center and they are located in Dallas HQ. The dispatchers there manage specific regions of the US and oversee how the "daily operations plan" is executed. Their directives give the supervisiors in the driver base terminals their "ground orders" to "execute" the operations plan.

The farthest the ex-Peter Pan Buses went was St. Louis from what I remember - they brought those back in a hurry once they ramped up Bolt. Those buses are long gone. The oldest Peter buses left are from 1999 and can rarely be used for line runs because of ADA.

 

[metrolinecoach111]

Trailways of New York buses do sometimes get used on all or parts of the BOS-ALB-SYR-BUF-CLE (I-90) line,, or NYC or TOR (table 170). They are never sent on the NYC-CLE-CHI (I-80) line (table 215). If they end in CLE on a very busy holiday, they can sometimes be sent on to Chicago, but rarely beyond there. They will turn them back to 'home territory', ASAP.

The reason they are used on the former route, is the carrier operating the bus, even a thru bus, between ALB and SYR can be either GL or ADT, and from SYR to BUF either GL or NYT. It's part of a complicated pool arrangement to balance both driver and bus prorated mileage share over a period of time.

Personally, I like the pool arrangement GL and PPB have, where they pool schedules, but the drivers only drive their own companies equipment....they do not interline their buses like TNY and GL do. I don't know how they do it over at Bolt....

As for the CADEC, TNY buses employ a different GPS technology that is either more reliable, or repaired ASAP if down....

TNY has Saucon, just like almost every other line-run or scheduled service operator that has this type of technology. Saucon does the job well.

The difference in the pooling agreements for TNY and PPB is substantial - TNY is equipment and revenue, PPB is only revenue, therefore each is treated as it's own operation, although they are coordinated in scheduling and planning.

Bolt operates as a standalone division in all markets. If they have to use Greyhound or Peter Pan equipment (or vice versa), they are considered rentals and charged back accordingly to the appropriate division for accounting purposes.

 

[railiner]

The Bolt buses that I have seen, have GL ownership. Are there also PPB owned Bolt buses? And are the driver's all "Bolt" driver's?

I know at the beginning, when they started up, they "borrowed" driver's (and manager's) from both companies.

I haven't really paid close attention to their operation.......

I know they maintain their buses at PPB's Secaucus garage, and occasionally I see one in The Port, or parked on the midtown streets....

 

[metrolinecoach111]

The Bolt buses that I have seen, have GL ownership. Are there also PPB owned Bolt buses? And are the driver's all "Bolt" driver's?

I know at the beginning, when they started up, they "borrowed" driver's (and manager's) from both companies.

I haven't really paid close attention to their operation.......

I know they maintain their buses at PPB's Secaucus garage, and occasionally I see one in The Port, or parked on the midtown streets....

All the buses carry GL legals because of the operating authority - Bolt is a Greyhound entity. PPB purchased the first batch of D45's for them and leased them to Greyhound for Bolt service. This current batch is Greyhound owned and operated on the West Coast. All the drivers are under the Bolt division, but are Greyhound employees officially, all of whom belonging to ATU 1700. You are correct that they borrowed a few from both companies in the beginning - almost all of whom stayed on.

Regarding maintenance facilities, in the Northeast the buses are based out of PPB's Secaucus and Chelsea (Boston) garages, and Greyhound's Philadelphia and DC garages. In the PNW, they are based out of Greyhound's Portland terminal and Seattle garage. In California, it's all LA. About a year ago, Bolt operated service from the Port out of Gate 84 but has since discontinued that to the delight of all parties involved.

 

[metrolinecoach111]

I don't know what happened with the Cascades, but Greyhound really needs to clean up their act in Seattle. All the buses based from Seattle Garage are G4500s, they need to rebuild those buses and introduce express service. The Greyhound terminals in Seattle, Portland, and Vancouver are all in decent areas.

Greyhound already operates express service with brand new buses in the PNW... BoltBus! Plus it has the added benefit of not having any of the stigma attached to Greyhound name.

I walked by the Seattle station... it is in a nicer part of town.

I know, but BoltBus is no true replacement for Greyhound. It's not gonna be nice to wait curbside in the constant Seattle rain. And if Greyhound rebuilt the G4500s under their own name, it would help fix their reputation.

Greyhound, if you can do it better, then do it better, instead of just using BoltBus to get around the Greyhound Haters.

I can attest to the fact that the "cool" factor of BoltBus in the PNW has done wonders for Greyhound overall in that region. The young professional, tech-savvy crowd that comprises a good chunk of the metopolitan areas served can relate to and feel comfortable with Bolt. The same cannot be said about Greyhound - it's all about the marketing.

Greyhound has a long way to go as a brand to recover their tarnished reputation, whether anyone believes it's deserved or not. Yes the innovations, new buses and operating practices have gotten better. And to an extent depending on where you are, so has the customer service. But until Greyhound goes full-reserved on all schedules in every market (they have capacity controls on every schedule and every section without flexibility in tracking passengers), they will always have problems. Unfortunately, that's also one of the advantages they have over other modes. And as previously mentioned, this is without considering the wide array of passengers Greyhound serves, unlike Bolt, Mega or other online curbside-based services.

Seeing both sides of the coin, you have to pick your poison.

 

[railiner]

So it sounds like PPB really has no connection with Bolt then.......

As for Bolt using Gate 84...yeah, I remember that.....it was done to 'counter' Megabus using 'Area X' (the covered portion of West 41st Street passing thru The Port. Thankfully, that has ended.....