Some miscellaneous Italian and Swiss trains

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greatcats

Engineer
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
2,385
Location
Flagstaff, Arizona
Good morning from Basel, Switzerland. I have been in Europe for over three weeks with over two left. I arrived in Bulgaria on May 27 as part of a choral concert tour from Flagstaff, AZ, comprising a portion of the community choir of which I am a member, the Master Chorale of Flagstaff, and most of the Northern Arizona University Choir, known as the Shrine of the Ages Choir. It was a pleasure to travel with these talented and personable students. We did four concerts, one of Brahms " Requiem " and an alternate program of mostly American music; three concerts were in the Bulgarian cities of Sofia, Plovdiv, and Varna, and one in Istanbul, Turkey.

This is supposed to be about trains, so here are some observations. Our group of over 100 traveled by 3 buses, which were nice enough vehicles. They were equipped with rest rooms, but, alas, and oh, woe and distress, are kept locked because there is no readily available place to dump them! Rest stops were too infrequent. I will leave out a few other details on this subject. Bulgaria is a rather nice country, and the least expensive of those I have encountered, and shows remnants of its former Communist

regime, notably in some really ugly architecture. I did not ride any trains here, nor in Turkey. Our bus sat at a grade crossing with the gates down for a good five minutes one day until the train finally passed by - an electric locomotive pulling about five seedy looking coaches. After an eleven hour bus ride to Istanbul, which was much too long, we arrived in this amazing and prosperous looking huge city. I was pleasantly surprised by Istanbul. ( It was not my choice to come to Bulgaria and Turkey; I came to perform good music in other countries. ) One of the main train stations, Sirkeci, does not seem to serve any trains at this time, other than parking some equipment. I think it has something to do with a re-route via a new tunnel across the Bosporus.

After 11days, the large group departed in the pre-dawn hours at 3:30 am to bus to the airport. I actually got up to go downstairs and bid them farewell, and promptly went back to bed. The next day I flew Turkish Airlines ( using United miles ) to Venice. This was my first time in Italy. While full of tourists, I was indeed fascinated by the network of canals and the bewildering passages and alleys requiring one to walk around with Iphone in hand with Google maps to return to the hotel. ( By the third night I returned without such assistance, which made me proud!) It is not my intent to write a travelogue about Venice, but it is certainly a wonderful destination.

My next destination was Siena, a distinctive historic city. Now for my introduction to Italian trains. This required being routed on a fast train, run by Italo, a private company. This was supposed to be a two hour trip, but there was some kind of accident, which delayed us, arriving Florence 35 minutes late. I rode second class, which cost about $61 - welcome to European prices. Then I switched to Trenitalia, the state run system to Siena, which was a regional commuter train. The equipment is modern, but rather banged up - nothing to write home about. But the ride to Siena through increasingly beautiful rural country into Tuscany, was really more captivating than the fast train from Venice. Arriving Siena, I took a taxi to my hotel, Il Chiostro del Carmine, an ancient convent converted into a hotel - lovely place. Usually I prefer to walk from the train to hotels, as roller bags are such a great invention, but these medieval towns were built on hilltops for defensive purposes. The train station is down in the valley. I loved my time in Siena, wandering the ancient streets and taking a wine tour, which was well run with a personable driver. Three nights later I took the same commuter train to Florence and stayed two nights.

I am not the typical tourist and frankly have become tired of sightseeing. I did catch a fabulous chamber orchestra concert on the top floor of a museum with soaring stone pillars and brick arches, surrounded by statuary. Concerts and cultural events are what interest me these days and this concert at the Museo Orsanmichele was one of my highlights so far. ( The Vivaldi concerts in Venice were great, too. ) Only two nights were spent in Florence, which is a little too busy tourist wise for me, and I booked the train from Florence to Switzerland, second class. This was an annoying ride. The train was very full and baggage was piled all over the passenger compartment and in the aisles. Then there was an Italian family who followed me all the way to Interlaken. They had two little boys who continuously ran up and down the aisles of the car bumping into people and falling down. They were cute for the first minute or two and then they never stopped. I felt like smacking the father, but did not wish to provoke an international incident. Getting off the through train at Spiez, a quick transfer was made to a Swiss local for a short ride to Interlaken West. Daddy from Italy had all his luggage blocking the exit. Then I saw them up the street and was afraid they would be in my hotel, which fortunately, turned out to not be the case.

I stayed in a very hospitable middle class hotel, the Roessli, run by a family. Not plush but my idea of what a hotel of this type should be and they gave me good advice. I bit the bullet and decided to take the mountain railway up the Jungfrauhoch, probably the biggest single attraction here. From the town, it involves three trains. I have not been in Switzerland in 42 years. The scenery on this ride is indicative of why this country( an expensive one, for sure! ) has a reputation for beauty. Most of the route involves cogs between the rails. The last leg, a 50 minute ride from Kleine Schneiwegg to the top is amazing, completed in 1912. The train crawls up unbelievable grades at slow speed, and most of it is in a tunnel in the mountainside. It goes to 11,333 feet, not the summit of the mountain itself, but high enough. It was cold and icy up there - great views, although not that clear, and I had a nice, ( but expensive! ) lunch without alcohol, as the altitude was doing a job on me and I felt like I had had too many beers.

Two hours were spent up there, and I returned to Interlaken via an alternate route. Absolutely amazing, incredible engineering. One would think trains are not supposed to go in such places, but the operation runs quite well. The next day I continued on to Lucerne and decided to book First Class for the two hour trip, as I had been annoyed with the ride from Milan. This was the Lucerne - Interlaken Express. It even carries a dining car of sorts, with microwaved food, manned by one young lady, but with seating with white tablecloths. This line, while not as extreme as the previous days ride up the mountain, is also quite fascinating - It is a modern through train, but it snakes through residential neighborhoods, along lakeshores and up and down steep grades that Amtrak would not be able to handle. This one was sparsely patronized, and the ride was quiet and pleasant.

I took the city bus to my hotel, the Seeburg, with a killer view of the lake, and attended two very fine concerts in their world class concert hall, the KKL Konzertsaal. Yesterday another Swiss train took me in a little over an hour from Lucerne, a lovely city for sure, to Basel, where I am currently situated. End of this part of the report. Tomorrow evening I will be on the City Night Line to Copenhagen, and then have two journeys by rail in Norway.
 
The Jungfrau is worth the outlay if the weather is fine, first time I went up there had a fine view of the inside of a cloud, the second time bright sun and lots of snow.

The trains from Italy to Switzerland can be really busy, of course in Switzerland there is (obviously) an excellent system of checked baggage, so no need for piles of luggage through the train....

Interlaken to Lucerne is one of my favourite routes, was it one of the newer unit trains or the older loco and coaches you had?

And, yes, Lucerne is one of the most pleasing places I have visited. A stunning location.
 
It was a newer unit train. The consists seem to be made up of several cars with a slant nose cab end at each end of the train, but then the slant nose was right up against the vestibule of another coach or two with another cab at the far end. This additional set of cars is isolated from the rest if the consist, which I thought a little odd. Yes, the rude up the big mountain was worth the price. Ouch.
 
Sounds like you are having a lovely trip. When I was a student, I went up to the Kleine Scheidegg in Switzerland, followed by a much-too-fast hike back down (I wanted to look at the flowers and take pictures of the views, they had a schedule for us).

On a trip many years later, I went north through Sweden, beyond the Arctic Circle, and then south through Norway. I am looking forward to your adventures there.
 
Hi,

Glad you are enjoying the music, if not all the tourist attractions! I would be obliged if you could give some idea of price for the trip to the top of Switzerland... it is an expensive country!

I hope to travel again in America and the Far East, but currently looking at more local, European jaunts.

Bon Voyage,

Ed. :cool:
 
Glad you're enjoying the train rides and concerts Eric, were envious! But since you've gotten to work as a tour guide in interesting and beautiful places I understand why the sightseeing is secondary to your main reason for the trip!

Look forward to future trip reports and I'm thinking of that old WW I song, to paraphrase: " how you gonna keep 'em down on the farm when they've seen Flagstaff!" LOL

Question: Would a Euro Rail Pass have saved you much since Europe is so expensive?
 
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I vaguely remember taking the train from Zurich to Zermat many, many, many moons ago... all I remember it that it was in the Reagan era and anyone who found out we were Americans just beat the snot out of us. We had hopped on the train directly after an overnight flight and there was no food. Beautiful but must have been so miserable that I don't even remember how we got home.... best memory was the chocolate and beds!
 
I did the trip in conjunction with buying for 120 francs the Swiss half fare ticket, which if you use that pass enough derives some benefit. But the straight answer to your question is that the round trip from Interlaken to the Top if Europe comes out to a little over $200! Ain't that impressive?
 
It was a newer unit train. The consists seem to be made up of several cars with a slant nose cab end at each end of the train, but then the slant nose was right up against the vestibule of another coach or two with another cab at the far end. This additional set of cars is isolated from the rest if the consist, which I thought a little odd. Yes, the rude up the big mountain was worth the price. Ouch.
Jungfrau is a wallet stinger!As for non connectivity between various parts of a train, it's quite normal in Switzerland on both standard and metre gauge lines.

Quite common to see the double deck IC2000 trains with a few single deck IC vehicles added at peak times, sometimes with the loco sandwiched between the 2 parts.

It's not 'odd' just different!!!
 
Previous reply was for caravan man. This one is for Mr. Hudson. I should have researched those Euro passes more and it may have been beneficial. However, the fares I have paid for Basel-Copenhagen and Bodo to Oslo, both with first class sleepers, I consider a pretty good value, especially comparing them to some Amtrak sleeper fares.
 
I did the trip in conjunction with buying for 120 francs the Swiss half fare ticket, which if you use that pass enough derives some benefit. But the straight answer to your question is that the round trip from Interlaken to the Top if Europe comes out to a little over $200! Ain't that impressive?
The various high profile mountain railways generally don't offer full discounts like the 50% with the Swiss pass, always pays to do a little research beforehand and check the weather forecast!!
 
When I was in Norway, my Norwegian friend took me out to dinner at a Chinese restaurant. Don't laugh! He said it was the best food available for what he could afford. Chinese people that can cook open restaurants in every country they end up in! The food was much the same as you'd find at a middle-of-the-pack Chinese restaurant in the US, and the price about half of other restaurants in the area. If your heart is not set on Scandinavian specialties, you could do a lot worse. :p

Of course, this was in Oslo, I think Chinese restaurants are hit-and-miss in smaller cities, and totally absent in small towns.
 
When I was in Norway, my Norwegian friend took me out to dinner at a Chinese restaurant. Don't laugh! He said it was the best food available for what he could afford. Chinese people that can cook open restaurants in every country they end up in! The food was much the same as you'd find at a middle-of-the-pack Chinese restaurant in the US, and the price about half of other restaurants in the area. If your heart is not set on Scandinavian specialties, you could do a lot worse. :p

Of course, this was in Oslo, I think Chinese restaurants are hit-and-miss in smaller cities, and totally absent in small towns.
Chinese restaurants are practically everywhere these days.

Value for money can vary depending on the restaurant, so its worth checking some online reviews before you go. Same as any other restaurant really.
 
You weren't missing much not riding trains in Bulgaria. I left Sofia the day after you got there and did some riding between Sofia and one of the suburbs to visit my in-laws. I rode on both the electrics pulling coaches and sets that were fixed sets like you'd find on MRT's in some countries. They also suffered from vandalism namely shattered windows that were not replaced. The Sofia Metro while a small system by metro standards is clean, fairly efficient and has a nice mix of Soviet era cars and some more modern equipment. Glad you liked Bulgaria it's a still relatively unknown destination, and not in the Eurozone which still makes it relatively inexpensive as European countries go.
 
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