Amtrak Siemens Charger locomotive (SC44, ALC42, ALC42E) (2015 - 1Q 2024)

[cpotisch]

Does it seem like MARC might be ordering ACS-64s anytime soon? Because I imagine owning HHP-8s for this long has involved some significant maintenance costs.

 

[PVD]

At one point it was thought that MARC would go all diesel, that obviously changed since they rebuilt the HHP-8. points to ponder: How reliable will the rebuilt HHP-8 be? Will they prove costly or difficult to maintain? If so, do you go back to the diesel plan eliminating the electrics, or replacing them with new electrics, and if so, do you have the money to do it?

 

[cpotisch]

What specifically are they rebuilding or replacing?

 

[PVD]

They rebuilt the HHP-8 and retired the last few AEM-7 Original plan was replacement of all electrics, but that evolved.

 

[jis]

I understand that the rebuild involves a complete replacement of the power pack and drive system. IOW replacement of the guts.

 

[cpotisch]

I understand that the rebuild involves a complete replacement of the power pack and drive system. IOW replacement of the guts.

Wasn't one of the main issues with the HHPs that the trucks were cracking? Are they (or could they) replace those?

 

[PVD]

That was back in 2002 and also affected Acela service. They were removed from service for repairs, and since we are 16 years out from that, I'd say that got fixed. There were a myriad of other issues that continued that were not in the "life safety" category, but certainly made them a less than favorite motor.

 

[cpotisch]

That was back in 2002 and also affected Acela service.

Acela Express? But they never used HHP-8s. Or are you referring to the idiotic and short lived Acela Regional and/or Acela Commuter?

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

That was back in 2002 and also affected Acela service.

Acela Express? But they never used HHP-8s. Or are you referring to the idiotic and short lived Acela Regional and/or Acela Commuter?

The problem was present in both HHP-8s and Acela Express trainsets.

 

[PVD]

No, I'm referring to the same issue being present in both types.

 

[cpotisch]

Thanks. Didn’t know that the Acela trainsets has some of the same issues.

 

[Ryan]

If you look at the two of them next to each other, you'll note more than a little bit of similarity on the outside. That similarity extends to the inside bits as well. Take an HHP-8, chop off a cab, and you essentially have an Acela powerhead.

 

[jis]

I understand that the rebuild involves a complete replacement of the power pack and drive system. IOW replacement of the guts.

Wasn't one of the main issues with the HHPs that the trucks were cracking? Are they (or could they) replace those?

No crack on trucks. Crack was in the Yaw Damper Bracket that attaches the side Yaw Damper to the body frame, and that was fixed then by replacing them with more robust Yaw Damper Brackets as I recall. That is now a non-issue.
Cracks in trucks was in P42s due the use of an improper short cut procedure for maintenance by Beech Grove.

 

[cpotisch]

Cracks in trucks was in P42s due the use of an improper short cut procedure for maintenance by Beech Grove.

This is getting sort of off-topic but what was that shortcut maneuver?

 

[jis]

Cracks in trucks was in P42s due the use of an improper short cut procedure for maintenance by Beech Grove.

This is getting sort of off-topic but what was that shortcut maneuver?

Something to do with improperly replacing wheels. Don’t remember the details.

 

[PVD]

Mechanical departments are criticized when it takes a long time to perform certain tasks, but the quest to find a faster or easier way to do something often has unintended consequences. Think CF6 engine replacement on the DC-10.

 

[west point]

Was there something about Amtrak would no longer service the HHPs after a certain date ( July 1 ? ). That does not seem correct date since Amtrak still has to maintain their HHPs until the Amtrak lease expires ?

 

[jis]

I believe MARC now has a direct contract with Alstom as part of the rebuild deal.

 

[cpotisch]

Cracks in trucks was in P42s due the use of an improper short cut procedure for maintenance by Beech Grove.

This is getting sort of off-topic but what was that shortcut maneuver?

Something to do with improperly replacing wheels. Don’t remember the details.

Oh. I thought you were saying that when the locomotives were literally being moved and/or shunted around the yard, that they were wearing out the trucks or something. Thanks though!

 

[jrud]

I understand that the rebuild involves a complete replacement of the power pack and drive system. IOW replacement of the guts.

What they are doing to the HHP-8s is reported on in these minutes under Old Business. https://mta.maryland.gov/sites/default/files/MARCRAC_Minutes_2017-11-15.pdf .
FWIW. I’m pretty sure that when MARC announced the Charger purchase they said that the older electric locomotives were being retired, but the fate of the HHP-8s was still being considered. Somehow the press reported that all the electric locomotives were being replaced and that has been considered MARC’s original plan ever since. I wish I could find the link to that old announcement.

As a rumor, I have also read that the HHP-8s may be getting a free refurbishment by Bombardier. Supposedly, if they can get the MARC ones to work right, all the AMTRAK HHP-8s that came off lease will suddenly have value. Bombardier can refurb them for sale/lease.

 

[PVD]

Actually, some of the press reported it almost exactly as you recall, this from the Baltimore Sun:

"Shepard said four of MARC's electric locomotives are 27 years old, near the end of their useful life, while six are 15 years old and do not have a good record for reliability. He said the older models will be scrapped as soon as there are diesels to replace them. The newer models will be evaluated to determine whether they can still be useful."

That was a reference to the AEM-7 and the HHP-8 plan at the time of the announcement of the proposed Charger purchase

 

[jis]

My only source was a conversation with MARC’s CMO office over a year back. I have no idea what has happened since then. At that time Alstom was doing a POC on one of the Hippos and it was about to go out for testing.

 

[jrud]

Actually, some of the press reported it almost exactly as you recall, this from the Baltimore Sun:

"Shepard said four of MARC's electric locomotives are 27 years old, near the end of their useful life, while six are 15 years old and do not have a good record for reliability. He said the older models will be scrapped as soon as there are diesels to replace them. The newer models will be evaluated to determine whether they can still be useful."

That was a reference to the AEM-7 and the HHP-8 plan at the time of the announcement of the proposed Charger purchase

Thanks. I thought it was the Sun. Then Railway Age and others reported that all the electric locomotives were going. https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/commuterregional/marc-replacing-electric-locomotive-fleet-with-high-speed-diesels/ . That reference made it into Wikipedia and history was altered.

 

[west point]

We first read of MARC getting rid of all electrics found it puzzling. To run MARC schedules on 2 and 3 track mains seemed impossible without electrics and said so. MARC trains especially locals are often held especially at WASH Union station until all faster Amtrak trains have left pulled by faster Acelas and ACS-64s .That is especially true for MARC locals. Less so for Baltimore express trains. We felt that the only way for MARC diesel trains to maintain required Amtrak schedules would be for 2 Chargers to pull each train,

Now if the HHPs can be made reliable maybe MARC might buy some of the Amtrak units as well ? If one of the many CAT failures that occur MARC would then have the extra diesels to run on the Penn line when travel times are not important.

Another factor may be MARC needing to add more passenger cars due to overcrowding. MARC does not have the extra equipment yet but from reports some crush hour trains on Penn line need 12 cars now.

 

[jrud]

We first read of MARC getting rid of all electrics found it puzzling. To run MARC schedules on 2 and 3 track mains seemed impossible without electrics and said so. MARC trains especially locals are often held especially at WASH Union station until all faster Amtrak trains have left pulled by faster Acelas and ACS-64s .That is especially true for MARC locals. Less so for Baltimore express trains. We felt that the only way for MARC diesel trains to maintain required Amtrak schedules would be for 2 Chargers to pull each train,

Now if the HHPs can be made reliable maybe MARC might buy some of the Amtrak units as well ? If one of the many CAT failures that occur MARC would then have the extra diesels to run on the Penn line when travel times are not important.

Another factor may be MARC needing to add more passenger cars due to overcrowding. MARC does not have the extra equipment yet but from reports some crush hour trains on Penn line need 12 cars now.

My recent personal experience is all watching Camden line trains that parallel the Metro Rail line I take from Greenbelt. There are no 12 car trains for sure. Four car single level trains at times but more cars (5?) and multilevel cars at other times. MP36s and Chargers seemed to be used almost randomly.
I should mention that GP39H-2s are sometimes (but not often) used. And, I even see the sole GP40WH-2 every once in a while.

My train is passing a double stack container train crossing the Potomac river heading north on the parallel Long Bridge now. Time to think about getting off.