Amtrak needs to be extinct

[Jeff - former railroader]

As a former railroader of 21 years. I have watched the steady decline of the national rail services in this country. This is the 21st century and the rail system in this country offers less service and efficiency of that of the 19th century.

Most Amtrak personel live by the motto "I showed up , you expect me to work too!"

Amtrak needs to be put out of business and be replaced with a "NASA" of the rails".

An organization busy developing new technologies and systems, for high speed intercity travel.

MagLev trains that use puplic owned interstate highway right of ways built along side of, or down the middle of the highways. 200 MPH automated trains that run city center to center. Reduce airport overcrowding, and expensive expansions. Invest in the future and make the trains runs on time!

 

[GG-1]

Aloha Jeff

While I will agree Amtrak needs improvement I have never seen something repaired by throughing it out. I also am very aquainted by people that have the attitude I showed.... etc. but what my observation is we create these attitude by allowing/encourageing people to get away with all that the can. Some even reward the cheats over the dedicated workers.

I think that as a society we can make this country better, therefore Amtrak.

 

[AlanB]

Jeff,

I'll say two things about what you wrote.

First, many of those workers that you are critcizing are either former freight RR workers, or they learned their job from a former freight RR worker. Right from the start of Amtrak there was heavy criticizm of the Amtrak workers, so it is quite clear that this was a problem that the freight companies dumped on Amtrak. This is not a problem that grew in Amtrak.

Second, the type of system that your wishing for will require real money. The type of money that Amtrak has never seen in its 30+ year history. In fact to achive what you're looking for, will require that Amtrak receives in one year for a period of at least 5 years, the same amount of money that it has received during its lifetime.

Even after the hard work is done, Amtrak or other entity would still probably require at least 2 billion a year in order to continue cutting edge research work and development.

While I'd love to see that happen, I sadly don't think it likely.

 

[engine999]

Amtrak dose have one similarity to Nasa. Money gose in and it appears nothing happens with it, except it dissapears. How ever Amtrak has inproved greatly in the last two years. It is hard to be cutting edge if you can be barley modern due to equipment woes. Also it has been proven even by the freight railraods that had passanger service that passanger rail can not sustain its self if you offer reasonable fares. All the famous trains of the 20th century were never making profits. It costs to much to provided services for passangers.

Not every amtrak employee gose out of their way to provide good service. But there are some and they do a great job and make travel efficient and enjoyable. Every form of transportation is heavily subsidized so it dosnt matter what type you look at your putting tax money into it somewhere.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

And as a former freight rail employee, YOU undoubtedly are carrying on the freight tradition of wishing Amtrak would just go away. Some of the freight rail companies, UP as a prime example, are so screwed up themselves that I'm not sure I would want to even admit I WAS a former freight rail employee for fear of being tarnished by the same brush. The delays Amtrak endures due to UP alone have resulted in a number of rather piquant epithets all coined around the UP initials, including Utterly Pathetic, Unlimited Parking, and "You can't spell STUPID without UP". Before you make attacks on Amtrak, I suggest you go back and help your former employers clean up their own act. Amtrak's performance, and the public's estimation of Amtrak itself, would benefit immensely from an improvement in the behavior of the freight rail companies.

 

[Guest]

it doesn't need to be an either/or situation. Taxpayers pay sufficient quantities where we ought to be having a viable transportation network via Amtrak as well as the high-speed intra and inter-city trains the writer discussed. Just don't look for any such development to take place under a Bush administration. The Neocons are interested in foreign wars and filling their private coffers, not the traveling American public.

 

[saxman]

Cutting Amtrak in order to research cutting edge technology is like completely demolishing a busy freeway corridor, then researching, designing, and building a brand new "state of the art" freeway. You can't really cut it to improve it. If we want high speed/maglev technology, the first step in doing that is making a seemless transportation network, including railways, highways, waterways, and airways, all working together. There is no single magical way to cover it all.

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

As a former railroader of 21 years. I have watched the steady decline of the national rail services in this country. This is the 21st century and the rail system in this country offers less service and efficiency of that of the 19th century.Most Amtrak personel live by the motto "I showed up , you expect me to work too!"

Amtrak needs to be put out of business and be replaced with a "NASA" of the rails".

An organization busy developing new technologies and systems, for high speed intercity travel.

MagLev trains that use puplic owned interstate highway right of ways built along side of, or down the middle of the highways. 200 MPH automated trains that run city center to center. Reduce airport overcrowding, and expensive expansions. Invest in the future and make the trains runs on time!

I am not one for attacking those who post, but I have one for ya fellow "former railroader!"

You say my job and livelyhood (how I feed my family) should be extinct? MAYBE YOUR RR RETIREMENT should BECOME extinct!!! GET A LIFE and write your congressman, and help make it known Amtrak could operate if it were fully funded properly!

Making a statement such as "AMTRAK SHOULD BECOME EXTINCT" is an attack my livelyhood! :angry:

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

As a former railroader of 21 years. I have watched the steady decline of the national rail services in this country. This is the 21st century and the rail system in this country offers less service and efficiency of that of the 19th century.Most Amtrak personel live by the motto "I showed up , you expect me to work too!"

Amtrak needs to be put out of business and be replaced with a "NASA" of the rails".

An organization busy developing new technologies and systems, for high speed intercity travel.

MagLev trains that use puplic owned interstate highway right of ways built along side of, or down the middle of the highways. 200 MPH automated trains that run city center to center. Reduce airport overcrowding, and expensive expansions. Invest in the future and make the trains runs on time!

I am not one for attacking those who post, but I have one for ya fellow "former railroader!"

You say my job and livelyhood (how I feed my family) should be extinct? MAYBE YOUR RR RETIREMENT should BECOME extinct!!! GET A LIFE and write your congressman, and help make it known Amtrak could operate if it were fully funded properly!

Making a statement such as "AMTRAK SHOULD BECOME EXTINCT" is an attack my livelyhood! :angry:

And BTW I am one of those "few" Amtrak Employees who really work hard, and give it all we got! Miami Joe is another one who does the same!

What do ya think of this guy's opinion, Miami Joe?

 

[amtrakmichigan]

Former Railroader,

First your comparison to Amtrak and 19th century rail travel was pretty much a foolish statement that doesn't make any sense. Comparing Amtrak to the 1950s or 1960's rail travel standards would be a much more acurate statement. Not that this should be something our country should be proud of.

As far as your statement goes as far as Amtrak employees, I can agree with what your saying to a certain degree. However this is not just an Amtrak problem. Take a look around, this country is full of the type of workers that your painting a picture of. I don't like the "modern day" american workforce anymore then the the next guy, but to make it sound like it's an AMTRAK ONLY problem and the reason Amtrak is having problems is simply not true. I am sure you know or have worked with a bunch of people like this at your former RR.

The Freight RR's attitude toward passenger service can take most of the blame. My father who retired in 1988 with 38 years being a Passenger Agent(until Amtrak start up) and then Freight Agent recalls how the C&O RWY used to hold up passenger trains for freights on a constant basis, replacing real food service with vending machines, coach cars being filthy...and the list goes on and on. WHY did they do this? To discourage passenger rail travel or in other words, **** off all the customers so they wouldn't ride anymore. I beleave today's freight companies look at Amtrak as a nusince. CSX, UP, etc.. would love to push Amtrak out of business. They would look at it as being one less headache to deal with on a daily basis, and increased revenue for themselves with more track space for their own trains. This combined with politics for funding is probably 80+% of Amtraks problems. It's not the few bad apples that Amtrak has for employees that is derailing passenger service.

 

[capltd29]

KERRY!!!! KERRY!!!! KERRY!!!!

 

[Miami Joe]

Here goes!!! <_<

I'm all for the idea of new technology!!! I just don't think that the taxpayer should have to subsidize someone's experiment, while filling his pockets with tax money!! :angry:

European RR's have always been used as a primary source of transportation. This was started decades ago, and they are very reliable. The roads are secondary to the placement of raillines.

When the Interstate Highway bill was passed in the 50's, it doomed passenger rail. With the advent of passenger air travel, rail lines started falling to the wayside.

I would love to see a modern rail system. But, with all the roadways, cities and political corruption, it's as difficult to as trying to build a new airport.

Modern rail needs unimpeded track with no crossings, a proven system that will allow all costs to be calculated before being built and most of all, a system that will be USED. So many projects are being built today with falsified projections, that governments are having to subsidize private enterprise's failures.

Here in Miami, Fla., we have a mass transit system that has never been able to maintain itself. We just passed a 1 cent transit tax after 4 attempts in the past. Now, the county is telling the public that their projections were wrong and all promises during the campaign cannot be fulfilled without more money than the tax will provide.

We have an arena that was built for the Heat. It didn't provide enough revenue for the team and the team held the city hostage for a new arena. It was built and now the taxpayer has to continue to cover the $40 million note on the old arena. It's very rarely used and has been sold to build a parking lot.

High speed rail is a great idea in Florida, I just don't to pay for it!!! When the idea was first put to the public in the 80's, it was to be built by a private consortium. As the project progressed, The private consortium backed out of providing the construction money and tried to get the state to back bonds for construction. They changed their position from owning the system to providing support services. Smells like someone getting rich at the taxpayer's expense.If you can show me a passenger rail anywhere in world that doesn't receive some type of a goverment subsidy and can sustain itself financially, I will support the idea of building a modern rail system.

Niami Joe B)

 

[engine999]

Here goes!!! <_<
I'm all for the idea of new technology!!! I just don't think that the taxpayer should have to subsidize someone's experiment, while filling his pockets with tax money!! :angry:

European RR's have always been used as a primary source of transportation. This was started decades ago, and they are very reliable. The roads are secondary to the placement of raillines.

When the Interstate Highway bill was passed in the 50's, it doomed passenger rail. With the advent of passenger air travel, rail lines started falling to the wayside.

I would love to see a modern rail system. But, with all the roadways, cities and political corruption, it's as difficult to as trying to build a new airport.

Modern rail needs unimpeded track with no crossings, a proven system that will allow all costs to be calculated before being built and most of all, a system that will be USED. So many projects are being built today with falsified projections, that governments are having to subsidize private enterprise's failures.

Here in Miami, Fla., we have a mass transit system that has never been able to maintain itself. We just passed a 1 cent transit tax after 4 attempts in the past. Now, the county is telling the public that their projections were wrong and all promises during the campaign cannot be fulfilled without more money than the tax will provide.

We have an arena that was built for the Heat. It didn't provide enough revenue for the team and the team held the city hostage for a new arena. It was built and now the taxpayer has to continue to cover the $40 million note on the old arena. It's very rarely used and has been sold to build a parking lot.

High speed rail is a great idea in Florida, I just don't to pay for it!!! When the idea was first put to the public in the 80's, it was to be built by a private consortium. As the project progressed, The private consortium backed out of providing the construction money and tried to get the state to back bonds for construction. If you can show me a passenger rail anywhere in world that doesn't receive some type of a goverment subsidy and can sustain itself financially, I will support the idea of building a modern rail system.

Niami Joe B)

Yeah the days of FOX(Florida Overland Express). To bad public transportation in MIA is built going to places people dont need to or want to go. It took years for people to start taking metrolrail and just recently ridership has picked up. With the expansion of metrorail and tri-rail public transportation in MIA might actually be a viable alternative.

As much as I would like the highspeed rail built there is honestly not enough money in the current budget. Although I think it is ridiculous that the govenor will not attempt to carry out the will of the people. They passed an admendmant for a reason. Now if the states finaces are straightend out so money isnt waisted there probably is enough sitting around. I do find it more then rediculous that the admendmant will be on the ballot again this year because derail the bullet train group used dead peoples names on petitions. Aint that the way to do stuff. :angry:

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

I will reference my experiences with the airlines over the past two weeks to respond.

I was on 22 different flights, each greater than 800 miles, throughout the U.S. the past two weeks. Only 5 out of 22 flights arrived within an hour of their scheduled arrival times, and my checked baggage arrived with me exactly half the time. I am still completely missing a bag, which was supposed to be transferred between flights in Atlanta during the last week of July. Of the remaining 17 flights, 6 were cancelled due to weather – somewhere on our planet. I completely missed two out of my nine appointments, and was late by at least an hour for four out of the remaining seven. The two weeks showed me short over $3000 for various “penalties” and “fare differences” I forked over in efforts to simply arrive on time.

Looking back over the frustrating experience, which is easy to contrast with the relative ease and reliability of travel in Europe and most of the rest of the industrialized world, it is clear that air travel system in the U.S. is broken. The airlines are so late, so often, and so unreliable in their ability to meet their own schedules, that you have to plan to show up a day early for an important appointment. Even the most casual observer standing in just about any U.S. airport can see the source of the problem: there are too many flights being scheduled in too little time; the slightest disturbance anywhere in the systems brings the whole system to its knees. The airport crowding and the security measures make too many people rude and angry. Though U.S. trains are old, tattered, dirty, and late, (an international embarrassment on a peer with our ridiculous airports) the travel experience by train remains largely a civil one.

So, while we have chronic overcrowding in the airports, the U.S. passenger rail service is left to languish in decay. The lack of a transportation policy in the U.S. keeps both of the systems, rail and air, far from optimal. A mere glance into just about any other industrialized country makes the solution intuitively obvious to the most casual observer: if you are traveling less than 500 miles, you belong on a train. But the airlines can’t be forced to give up their short haul business without something –the trains– to replace it.

The government's theory that there is little place for passenger rail in the 21st century is nonsense.

 

[mlrr]

Hi,

This is my first message as a member of this forum! All I have to say in response to the initial post is that if we don't get enough support for Amtrak in terms of funding from congress, we won't get to see the results we're looking for in our lifetime.

Another thing that needs to be done is improvement of our infrasturucture. We are running (for the most part) 21st century equipment (Acela Express and HHP-8) on early 20th century ifrastructure. That will cost the most money of all. Allot of the European RRs are able to have these high-speed trains because they have right of way and therefore they can run these super high-speed trains because there are hardly any sharp curves, crossings or any sort of buildings in close proximity.

All we can do is continue to show support for Amtrak by writing our congress men and women.

 

[AlanB]

AmtrakWatcher,

While I can't truely speak to just how things are overseas, let me say that it appears that they may have their own problems with air service too. I'm currently typing this from a hotel room in Timmins, Ontario in Canada, where this past weekend a Shania Twain Fan Convention was held (Shania's home town). Now while I drove up here from NY, there were two friends that arrived from Vaasa, Finland.

They flew in from Finland last Wednesday to Toronto. Their luggage however did not fly in with them. It arrived here in Timmins on Saturday, 3-1/2 days later.

Yes I'm a little off the topic, not to mention completely off the topic of trains, but I thought that I should add this tidbit. However all forms of transportation suffer from problems, Amtrak is not unique.

 

[RidesOften]

As a former railroader of 21 years. I have watched the steady decline of the national rail services in this country. This is the 21st century and the rail system in this country offers less service and efficiency of that of the 19th century.Most Amtrak personel live by the motto "I showed up , you expect me to work too!"

Amtrak needs to be put out of business and be replaced with a "NASA" of the rails".

An organization busy developing new technologies and systems, for high speed intercity travel.

MagLev trains that use puplic owned interstate highway right of ways built along side of, or down the middle of the highways. 200 MPH automated trains that run city center to center. Reduce airport overcrowding, and expensive expansions. Invest in the future and make the trains runs on time!

Most Amtrak personel live by the motto "I showed up , you expect me to work too!"

Amtrak needs to be put out of business and be replaced with a "NASA" of the rails".

An organization busy developing new technologies and systems, for high speed intercity travel.

MagLev trains that use puplic owned interstate highway right of ways built along side of, or down the middle of the highways. 200 MPH automated trains that run city center to center. Reduce airport overcrowding, and expensive expansions. Invest in the future and make the trains runs on time!

Well I love this post!!

Amtrak people are your Hard working Fellow Americans>>>> which I am proud to be one!!! You tell me how your going to put " Nasa of the rails" into operation>???" without the help of Railworkers , all kinds!! HUH????

One man operation, it sounds like it....

I can't believe a railroader would speak this way if you are one. You would know we ( OBS) put over 40 to 50 and some more hours in a run....with very little sleep to try an make sure your okay and comfort with your little pillow to hug!!! Also make sure your were up so you don't miss your stop!!! The T & E works harder too!

Computers are only machines when the Nasa brakes down who gona fix it??? Time maybe a factor to you but alot of people like the rails. Who wants to see the country it in a flash!! OH man was that the Grand Canyon a min. ago!!!

I also like to see you tell the older woman who has a cousin in Washington she can"t go by rail!! Watch out for the 50 lb bag it a killer!!!

Okay I said enough GGRRRR!!! I am going back to my drawning board.!!!!

From

Just one of those OH Gosh show up for work Amtrak workers!

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

As for AlanB’s question/comment: yes, the airports and air service in the rest of the industrialized world are about as bad as they are in the U.S. The difference is that you have a choice between rail and air just about everywhere you go except in the U.S. I’ve not seen the crowding, filth, and short tempers at airports as bad, however, as I’ve seen it in the U.S.

The fact that we don’t have a choice everywhere we go in the U.S. is the result of government policy, which for example sees nearby real service avoiding the airports in most places rather than serving them directly. The policy is colored by corruption as evidenced by, for example, Southwest Airlines fighting a rail proposal that would have linked Dallas with Houston. The result is silly stuff like BART stopping at the Coliseum in Oakland, where you have to take a crowded bus ride of 20 to 30 minutes ($2) to the airport. So, BART stops at the Coliseum, where there is only intermittent high traffic, but avoids the Oakland Airport where there would be constant high traffic. Likewise, TRE (which connects Dallas with Ft. Worth) comes close to the DFW airport, but you have to take two shuttle busses (with a transfer at a parking lot) to connect to the airport. Contrast these silly situations with, for example, Portland, OR, where the state (which is somewhat pro-rail) asserted its influence over the Federal authority (which is vehemently anti-rail.)

I was at Chicago’s Midway Airport recently (late in the morning) in the midst of some cancelled flights due to storms somewhere. One of my fellow passengers (who was trying to go back home to St. Louis) was irate over the situation, and storming off to rent a car in which he was going to drive home. I introduced myself and offered to share a cab to Chicago’s Union Station where he could, if he liked, accompany me on the Texas Eagle (on which I had only a few minutes earlier booked a sleeper to Dallas via the Internet) to St. Louis. Upon arriving at Union Station, he got a coach seat on the Texas Eagle. We met for dinner in the diner, where he went on and on about what a good idea using Amtrak was. The man, who was widely traveled and about 35 years old, had never heard of Amtrak, and it was his first train ride in his life. So invisible is passenger rail in the U.S. that it is ignored even by those who could and would use it.

 

[steve_relei]

I remember when Amtrak first started and most of the train operating personel--engineers, conductors, brakemen, even some of the ticket agents--were once employed by the railroads. In fact, all but the ticket agents were still employed by the host railroads to operate and manage Amtrak passenger trains. I am sure many were disappointed to see their old, home pasenger trains disappear and become a more homogenized company, but many were also glad that the passenger train survived. I remember train personnel trying their best to be upbeat and friendly toward passengers, and trying to make the best of it.

Amtrak is doing fine--a lot better than many thought it would. As with any semi-public/private organization, it is hard to know exactly who is to blame and who can help. You need money to run a system--no matter what that system is. How that money is used --or appears to be used--is often part of the problem. Part of what makes Amtrak attractive to so many people is that it is using tracks that are already there, and communities (state, federal,city, etc.) can make incremental improvements as funds and needs become available. Building brand new lines--such a TGV or Meglev lines--requires huge amounts of money, and you have to put those lines somewhere, and like freeways and roads, people don't want new mainline, high-speed railroad tracks or Meglev lines running in their neighborhoods. Subways also cost lots of money to build and maintain.

At least now, politicians are realizing the necesssity of rail services, especially with increased auto traffic and increased costs of gas prices and other expenses. If Amtrak is forced to go out of business, where will those people presently riding the trains go? How will they get to their destinations? Greyhound has just eliminated hundreds of stops to hundreds of small communities (some where Amtrak still stops). Airlines do not serve small communities, and there are so many hassles with flying to where it is not as attractive an offer as it once was. Same with driving. Should we all walk?

True, Amtrak could use a lot of improvement, but it's the best thing we've got in terms of rail travel/service in the USA. So, it's best that we make the most of it. If it is allowed to go out of business, it will be very difficult to get back.

 

[boyishcolt]

Very well put Steve

one thing that i could never understand why they never put a Amtrak TV monitor showing all trains in airports.

i have taken the train down many times from Chicago when returning on a long trip and the flight was canceled and surprised on how many did not know or even think of Amtrak

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

As a former railroader of 21 years. I have watched the steady decline of the national rail services in this country. This is the 21st century and the rail system in this country offers less service and efficiency of that of the 19th century.Most Amtrak personel live by the motto "I showed up , you expect me to work too!"

Amtrak needs to be put out of business and be replaced with a "NASA" of the rails".

An organization busy developing new technologies and systems, for high speed intercity travel.

MagLev trains that use puplic owned interstate highway right of ways built along side of, or down the middle of the highways. 200 MPH automated trains that run city center to center. Reduce airport overcrowding, and expensive expansions. Invest in the future and make the trains runs on time!

I am offended by your post we depend on Amtrak for our jobs i have talked to a lot of my co workers because they didn't understand a lot about Amtrak and they respect what i do for Amtrak.