Sunday liquor?

Reminds me of travelling through Ontario at one time.......

Your had to purchase a two course meal to enjoy a beer on a Sunday. The Bar Car attendant got around this by selling you a Cheese and Crackers Pak but it had to be opened and served on two plates!

Ryan, thanks for that list. According to the Palmetto's schedule, the attendant should have been able to serve alcohol from Washington, departure at 10am, until just before arrival in Dillon, SC at 4:56pm (just south of the NC/SC state line). As mentioned earlier I have never had a problem getting beer with lunch before on the Palmetto on a Sunday. So I suspect the attendant was off the extra board and didn't understand how the laws applied and so made it simple for himself. The fact this train does not return north today due to a CSX trackwork program until Friday may have resulted in a different crew.

I'd be interested to see a current list as I know my county in SC changed the law several years ago and you can now buy alcohol on Sunday.

Does the Palmetto receive any state subsidies, and could the contract with a particular state request this? I am just throwing out thoughts, eventually someone will get an "official" answer.

PVD said:

Does the Palmetto receive any state subsidies, and could the contract with a particular state request this? I am just throwing out thoughts, eventually someone will get an "official" answer.

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The Palmetto is a long-distance train.

I learned something from that table (thanks for posting) that Kentucky is the only state that doesn't allow service until polls close on Election day. Oh, and South Carolina. How come Illinois is the only state to allow asking for ID?

Amtrak needs to grow a pair, stand up to these states, and remind them what "interstate commerce" means, especially for dinky little towns along the way the train doesn't stop at all in. The states MIGHT could make an argument for regulation in the case of hosting an Amtrak stop, but even then, any passenger on the train should be unaffected. So short of an illegal search of every passenger upon disembarking, there's no means to enforce it, and no reason to either.

You need to examine the legislation that created Amtrak and what it specifically allows states to regulate and what it doesn't. Interstate commerce is not a blanket override of local laws. If the state speed limit is 65, can you drive your tractor trailer at 90 ? Of course not. Each state also sets alcohol limits and rules, (as long as they meet the fed cdl standard). Many states require fuel purchase or tax stamps when traversing their territory. It is not a black and white standard by any means. Can a state stop a bus or truck engaged in interstate commerce for a safety inspection ? Of course, happens every day.

Personally, I think that blue laws violate the religious freedom of not establishing a state religon. Be wet or be dry, and be it the same hours 365 days a year.

Amtrak should get John Mica on the case. Isn't that the guy who micro-manages Amtrak's food and beverage service? Don't you think he'd want to make sure Amtrak could squeeze every last dollar out of alcohol-deprived passengers?

The state-by-state information from Amtrak that Ryan posted is very interesting, but Amtrak needs to do some updating. Minnesota authorized sales between 8am and 10am on Sundays about 18 months ago.

Green Maned Lion said:

Personally, I think that blue laws violate the religious freedom of not establishing a state religon. Be wet or be dry, and be it the same hours 365 days a year.

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You presuppose that all alcohol laws are tied to religious views. There was a dry township in a Western Pennsylvania county that was dry specifically because they were a college town and didn't want a whole bunch of bars and drunk college kids roaming around.

Bob Dylan said:

Every State has its own Liquor Laws and Amtrak has to follow them!

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Has a dispute ever gone to court and been litigated to a final disposition? Hard to say who has to do what unless there's an established legal precedent of some sort. That being said, if I were in charge of Amtrak I probably wouldn't be rocking the legal liability boat for the benefit of a potentially controversial ancillary revenue stream.

Bob Dylan said:

I was on the Texas Eagle this morning and in Texas Alcohol can't be sold on Sunday before Noon. Lots of passengers were trying to order Bloody Marys for Breakfast!

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This is incorrect, at least in the case of (fully) wet counties like Bexar. I've been served alcohol before noon on Sunday dozens if not hundreds of times. Not just Mimosas or Blood Mary's but any type of cocktail you'd care to order from a full bar. So far as I am aware the primary state level requirement is that any alcoholic beverage has to be served with food prior to noon local time. This is probably one of the reasons that restaurants I've visited with full bars open prior to noon on Sunday always seem to start their service with a delivery of muffins/biscuits/chips whenever you order a drink.

I haven't researched all the details but it's possible that if Amtrak so desired they could come up with a drink + food setup that met the requirements for a wet county in Texas. Then again they might have to keep removing/restoring such a service as they passed from one county/municipality to another. Texas, for those who may be unaware, is a bit of a poster child for the absurdity of faith based legislation and bureaucratic micromanagement.

MattW said:

Amtrak needs to grow a pair, stand up to these states, and remind them what "interstate commerce" means, especially for dinky little towns along the way the train doesn't stop at all in. The states MIGHT could make an argument for regulation in the case of hosting an Amtrak stop, but even then, any passenger on the train should be unaffected. So short of an illegal search of every passenger upon disembarking, there's no means to enforce it, and no reason to either.

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Penalties for the illegal sale of alcohol are no laughing matter. Both the staff on duty and the business itself can face substantial fines, loss of current and future licensing, and possibly even jail time. Liquor law sting operations and enforcement teams are real. Amtrak is not in a position to push their luck antognizing states who control their funding through Congress.

lyke99 said:

The state-by-state information from Amtrak that Ryan posted is very interesting, but Amtrak needs to do some updating. Minnesota authorized sales between 8am and 10am on Sundays about 18 months ago.

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I specifically said that my copy of the Blue Book was getting old, it's almost certainly been updated within the last year.

In our part of Ohio liquor laws can be governed by an individual precinct in the county. We are occasionally asked to vote at elections on whether a particular restaurant or bar can sell liquor at all, or on Sundays. I remember when stores had to cover their liquor shelves on
Sunday to guarantee that no one would gain access to the booze on Sunday. The state governs who can get a license but the local community can determine via zoning, etc, who can sell and when. Yes, we are still living in the dark ages out here in corn country.

Heck I even have a friend who will not attend a train show on Sunday because he doesn't believe in doing commerce on Sunday. "It takes a village"

Since you live in Corn Country Bill, I wonder if Bootlegging is a Local Industry? (White Lightning!)

The dry precinct law is also in effect in Illinois. There are many precincts in the city of Chicago that have been declared dry by the voters. This usually involves areas where liquor stores become gathering points for unsavory types.

MikefromCrete said:

The dry precinct law is also in effect in Illinois. There are many precincts in the city of Chicago that have been declared dry by the voters. This usually involves areas where liquor stores become gathering points for unsavory types.

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Yup! It usually requires aldermanic support to get a variance. Happened for a wine shop going in around the corner from me - three people at the community meeting objected to it, two of them primarily because they seem bitter to live on a commercial street but don't want to admit that, the third was anti-alcohol. My mother remembers (and didn't remember it being changed) that no liquor was served until polls close on Election Day (dunno if that was Chicago or state law).