Love for Amtrak is Waning... But...

I agree with most of the above posts, especially VF and diagrua. While I understand why AGR would change their redemption requirements (the old ones were extremely generous re long trips, imo), some of the new rules really don't make much sense--no bonus on $$$ sleeper travel, large change penalties when there are none for cash customers, etc. (And, yes, I know they don't "owe" us anything, but the purpose of this forum is discussion of such things.)

If sleeper travel is such a small portion of their business (and I'm not arguing that it is or is not), then a little more generosity toward LD passengers shouldn't be a hardship on the program. Small=small

Ryan, you are so very knowledgeable and helpful in providing info, but why are you being so grumpy with the people who express their disappointment with the new system? Of course we out in the Amtrak wilderness aren't thrilled with the new rules, even those of us who don't post very frequently. I've read such comments multiple times in several threads. I'm not at all resentful toward those of you for whom the new program works well; I'm truly happy for your good fortune. But good grief, please let those members who want to express/discuss their disappointment in, or bewilderment at, some of the changes do so in peace. :huh:

warrencbennett,

Bending one's elbow with a 'few' pints certainly can help one cope with the less desirable aspects of coach!

...at least until the next morning! h34r: :wacko:

:giggle:

crescent2 said:

Ryan, you are so very knowledgeable and helpful in providing info, but why are you being so grumpy with the people who express their disappointment with the new system? Of course we out in the Amtrak wilderness aren't thrilled with the new rules, even those of us who don't post very frequently. I've read such comments multiple times in several threads. I'm not at all resentful toward those of you for whom the new program works well; I'm truly happy for your good fortune. But good grief, please let those members who want to express/discuss their disappointment in, or bewilderment at, some of the changes do so in peace. :huh:

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I'll turn that right back around on you. Why should I not be permitted to express my feelings on the matter? If people want to share their opinion in a public forum, there's absolutely nothing stopping them. If others want to respond to those opinions, there should be absolutely nothing stopping that either.

By pointing out the demographic differences in the folks around here and the "average" amtrak rider, hopefully what is now bewildering will make sense.

Devil's Advocate said:

Nobody is expecting deluxe amenities or special treatment in coach.

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True in *general*, but.... people do expect access to food on long trips. When the cafe car runs out, people get *mad*. Even in coach.

I will say that the new Amtrak Guest Rewards rules are actually better for me.

-- Where I live, the "100 point minimum" earned for a trip usually didn't do me much good; I was going to get that many points for my trip anyway. I didn't take legs short enough to be below that number.

-- I typically travel off-peak. The redemption cost on a mid-January trip is likely to be *lower* than it was before.

-- Previously it never made sense to do "one zone" coach redemptions (the points cost was effectively higher than the cash cost); now it does.

-- Previously it didn't make much sense to do "two zone" roomette redemptions (the points costs was effectively higher than the cash cost); now it does.

-- The three-zone roomette redemption cost is about the same as it was before.

I won't be 'saving up' for three-zone roomette redemptions any more; I'll use the points as fast as I get 'em now.

I tend to agree. I am taking a similar approach. Careful fare selection even gives me slightly cheaper sleeper trips from KIS to WAS/NYP. So I will probably do more of those on points while doing one or two really expensive trips out west to get status, should I pine for such.

I don't get all the complaints . Just finished a fabulous trip K.C. to L.A. Only problem was a five hour wait on the River runner because a freight broke down in front of us , had to bus us to K.C. The food and the room and the service on the Southwest Chief were impeccable. The car attendant gave her all to make the trip comfortable and the food was great!

I am glad to hear that your trip on the SWC was great. Different people have different tastes. I find the decline in food service tacky and the selection boring. Five star gourmet dinners are not necessary, but a little more imagination would go a long way. Maybe they got rid of those el cheapo cardboard boxes for the salad dressings. Those really irked me, but I seem to have been the only one to comment on that item.

Hi warrencbuffet. I appreciate your reply and please be rest assured that my affinity for train travel is separate from my desire to ride Amtrak. For years, I've scrimped and saved and Mastercarded to get my AGR points up. Then they nearly double the cost to buy points. Then they change the whole program. And they switch to Bank of America (a personal problem for me).

Most of my trips have been multiple days. In the last decade or so, my need to go more than one night has been greatly reduced, so in part my desire to ride has been caused by my own needs, or lack thereof.

I currently live a quarter mile off the Silvers mainline route near Savannah. The removal of the diner from the Star befuddled me after listening to how cafe car attendants are constantly running out of food.

I LOVE taking the train. But my love for AMTRAK is waning.

warrencbennett said:

You know, I am new to this forum but I had some thoughts on this post. The first is that I love train travel, not Amtrak specifically. I take Amtrak because that is the main way to ride the train in this country. It there were other options, I'd look into them but there really isn't. The second is I guess I'm in a minority because i don't really look for amenities and such on the train. I bring my own stuff with me, such as food and entertainment and the like. I'd love to get a 'room' and not just a seat, but those have always been out of my price range. I remember the rooms costing around 400 to 500 bucks back in 2000 when I first road an Amtrak train, so the price they are now doesn't really surprise me. I also always brought food with me because the dining car and the cafe have always been really expensive. I guess I'm just not rich, so some of the prices have always seemed outlandish to me. I always figured it was like eating at a sports stadium: They have a trapped customer base so they can charge anything they want. The third thing is that I'm not riding to accumulate points for guest rewards. Those are a nice bonus (I suppose. I didn't know they existed until a week or two ago) but I ride the train for the enjoyment of traveling.

I'm sure not everyone is comfortable sleeping in a coach seat or bringing their own food - but I just think the OP should think about the enjoyment of the ride more than what amenities and such Amtrak offers. I mean, I'm able to see the country from almost literally one end to the other for under $200 bucks. That is amazing. Riding on a train forces me to destress as well. There is nothing I can do about anything happening back home or at my destination. I either don't worry about it or spend 3 days in a metal tube going nuts. I choose to not think about it.

Maybe the love of Amtrak is waning because the OP is forgetting what the love of traveling by rail is like. Traveling by train isn't the easiest thing in the world but it is something that is both rewarding and and unique. My last train trip wasn't the most fun, but I took a bus across country on from NY to Arizona last year - Let me tell you that whatever you think about Amtrak services, it is 100 percent better than riding the old gray dog.

Anyway Didn't mean to intrude.

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I think AGE has a tremendous amount to do with the "sleeper vs. coach" option, and the "loss of amenities" discussion.

I'm 57, and started traveling Amtrak in my early teens. On my own dime, all coach, loved every minute of it. In college, it was pretty much the same, all coach, due to cost. Sleeping in the chairs didn't both me, a few cocktails made it even easier. I did however LOVE eating in the diner, even though it was (more) expensive. Never missed dinner in the diner, thou I did bring my cooler for lunches....... I think the first time I ever rode in a sleeper, was after I was employed by Amtrak. (They still had DORM CARS back in '79 too, three bunks high! Try the top bunk on the SW Chief, over jointed rail, at nearly 100 MPH... Better yet, don't!)

Wedding in 1984 was my first paid sleeper, for a honeymoon trip trip from Chicago to east coast.

Not much LD travel in my 20's and 30's. (I was busy running a dinner train and tourist railroads) Started traveling again in my 40's, and made one short, overnight trip from BAL to BOS on the Night Owl. (66-67) in coach (no other option) from that point on, it was "Never Again".

As I age(d), I expect more when I pay more. Not elitist, just willing, and able to pay more, to be more comfortable.

Amtrak has cut, cut, cut, virtually all of the things I had come to expect, and was willing and able to pay for, so now, other than a flat bed, there is virtually no appeal for me to ride LD overnight. The meals in the dining car, served today, by reduced staff, virtually all re-heated, just plain SUCK, in every way that they can suck. The staff can only do so much, so I don't blame them. But the enjoyment of a well prepared meal, with a good bottle of wine, served on China and linen, gone. If I get a meal that is even half as good as I can get at my local Applebee's, I feel that Amtrak pulled one out the hat. (And trust me, Applebee's is not my first, or second, or even third, choice of dining establishments....) the scenery, and the people you meet on board, that's about all the appeal that Amtrak LD has for me now. And the fact I don't have to go to an airport. I don't mind flying, I like it, I just hate the airport experience)

Some of my high(er) expectations may come from my career in the hospitality industry, my experience of working on Amtrak as a kid, (and knowing what we COULD provide, if given the opportunity) and life experiences of learning about fine wines, and first class food. Maybe Amtrak wouldn't seem so bad, I guess, if I had never experienced those things, or, if Amtrak didn't play up the experience of "Sleeper Class".

So, Amtrak cannot appeal to multiple demographics, we know that, instead of being "Great at this" and "cheaper than XYZ", they must muddle in the middle, when it comes to LD trains.

Too bad. 'Cause I doubt every millennial out there is going to feel the way they feel today, 10, 15, or even 20 years in the future.

warrencbennett said:

Hah, yah. I'm just part of the great unwashed group of plebes back in coach I understand you want what you pay for, but sometimes you just gotta sit back and enjoy the ride.

Anyway - here's to hoping things turn around for ya. *Lifts up a pint then quaffs it*

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Roger that. To be fair I started out in coach just like everyone else. The only reason I'm able to ride in sleepers today is because I was lucky enough to enter my prime earning years in one of the few careers that still pays a good wage. If you happen to find yourself at a future AU event and see me in the crowd I'll be happy to buy the first round.

Does that offer apply to everyone** Chris? LOL

**make mine Guinness**

I am cheap. Tap water is just fine for me

Another lone voice ...but I love Amtrak and the people.... I love riding the trains. Never had "points" or the card... Understand the feeling but I will happily look forward to my next ride tucked in my roomette watching the world go by.

Since there is Iowa Pacific running one of the state sponsored trains, as well as some non Amtrak passenger rail services starting in the next few years, although regional in nature, it would be interesting to compare. If Iowa Pacific, AAF, and others are successful, especially in customer satisfaction, will this result in pressure for Amtrak to contract out the other trains, provided that there are any takers?

There won't be any takers. Iowa Pacific is lovely, but they really have very little capacity to scale up.

AAF is a rare example of a "freight" railroad deciding to get back into passenger service. And I would expect this to happen again, *if* there were more railroads the size and shape of the FEC in this country. But there aren't. Now there are behemoth Class Is -- which are very slow to change direction, so even if passenger service is highly profitable, they won't do it until management has completely changed at least twice. And there are branchline Class IIIs, which don't have enough population to make for good passenger markets. The only "freight" railroads which are agile enough to get into passenger service, and potentially well-capitalized enough to do so, and have good enough markets to consider it, are among the Class IIs:

Alaska Railroad[1][2] (ARR)

Buffalo and Pittsburgh Railroad[3] (BPRR)

Central Oregon and Pacific Railroad[4](CORP)

Florida East Coast Railway[4][5] (FEC)

Great Lakes Central Railroad [6] (GLC)

Indiana Rail Road[7] (INRD)

Iowa Interstate Railroad[8] (IAIS)

Long Island Rail Road[9] (LI)

Montana Rail Link[10][11] (MRL)

New York, Susquehanna and Western Railway[12] (NYSW)

Paducah and Louisville Railway[13][14] (PAL)

Providence and Worcester Railroad[15][16] (PW)

Pan Am Railways[17] (ST)

Rapid City, Pierre and Eastern Railroad

Reading Blue Mountain and Northern Railroad[18] (RBMN), commonly known as simply "Reading and Northern"

Wheeling and Lake Erie Railway[19][20] (WE)

Wisconsin and Southern Railroad[21][22] (WSOR)

Of these, many are way too rural; the LIRR is already a passenger railroad and is state-owned; the Alaska Railroad already runs passenger service and is state owned; P&W mostly runs on track owned by passenger railroads; Pan Am is very much a junior partner to NS in freight, and a junior partner to the MBTA in passenger service;...

Apart from the FEC, the only other railroads on that list which might have a chance of launching successful passenger service are the Iowa Interstate, Montana Rail Link, and the Buffalo & Pittsburgh, and all of them are worse bets than the FEC.

Also FECI is actually a real estate company with a railroad attached to it, which none of the others are. That makes them much more amenable to expand into passenger service in support of their real estate operations, just like the motivation behind Flagler's original FEC. In other words FEC is a unique once off.