Insane routings

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Just went to price Chicago-Philadelphia for a trip in June-The first routing that popped up?

Empire Builder Chicago-Portland

Coast Starlight Portland-LAX

Sunset Limited LAX-New Orleans

Crescent New Orleans-Philadelphia....

6 nights, one 23 hour layover, around 152 hours on a train, just to go from Chicago-Philly, for $3,049 in a roomette....Though I prefer a Bedroom, which jumps the price up to $5,677....
 
Something about: to err is human; to screw it up beyond all recognition, still requires a computer... ;-)
 
It appears as if such is the first choice to come up on Sundays. Bizzare.
 
Is that a valid routing for an AGR reward? ;)
You could book it as a 2 Zone Award CHI-ELP on the days that #421 doesn't run, but it would be on #3/#2 CHI-LAX-ELP,then another 2 Zone Award from ELP-CHI-PGH-PHL on #422/#30/#42. They wouldn't allow the original one since its a Circle trip which aren't allowed!
You Possibly could do CBS ( Columbus, WI)-PDX-LAX-ELP on #27/#11/#2 as a 2 Zone Award,( with a Paid ticket on #7 from CHI- CBS)then ELP-CHI-PGH-PHL on #422/#30/#42 as another 2 Zoner??? ( I did this in the old Loophole Days)
 
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Just went to price Chicago-Philadelphia for a trip in June-The first routing that popped up?

Empire Builder Chicago-Portland

Coast Starlight Portland-LAX

Sunset Limited LAX-New Orleans

Crescent New Orleans-Philadelphia....

6 nights, one 23 hour layover, around 152 hours on a train, just to go from Chicago-Philly, for $3,049 in a roomette....Though I prefer a Bedroom, which jumps the price up to $5,677....
This is an argument for a restoration of the Three Rivers / Broadway Limited! So there is a direct connection available so the computer algorithm doesn't get confused. :p But pass-through cars on the CL to/from the Pennsylvanian would be a start.
 
Is that a valid routing for an AGR reward? ;)
You could book it as a 2 Zone Award CHI-ELP on the days that #421 doesn't run, but it would be on #3/#2 CHI-LAX-ELP,then another 2 Zone Award from ELP-CHI-PGH-PHL on #422/#30/#42. They wouldn't allow the original one since its a Circle trip which aren't allowed!You Possibly could do CBS ( Columbus, WI)-PDX-LAX-ELP on #27/#11/#2 as a 2 Zone Award,( with a Paid ticket on #7 from CHI- CBS)then ELP-CHI-PGH-PHL on #422/#30/#42 as another 2 Zoner??? ( I did this in the old Loophole Days)
CHI-PDX-LAX-ELP is not a published route; at least, it doesn't come up for me.

I asked AGR about CHI-PDX-LAX-NOL-NYP. I was told it would require a 2-zone CHI-PDX-LAX plus a 3-zone LAX-NOL-NYP. Of course, that is many more points than two 2-zone awards.
 
This is an argument for a restoration of the Three Rivers / Broadway Limited! So there is a direct connection available so the computer algorithm doesn't get confused. :p It's
It's my understanding that there is no algorithm in the sense that if you enter a start and stop station, the algorithm uses data about trains, stations, and times to come up with feasible itineraries. Supposedly, every connection that shows up is entered manually. This is the excuse given for goofy routings like this, but at the same time not displaying sensible routings. It is conventional AU wisdom that the reason for not displaying all sensible routings is to prevent rail fan AGR awards.
 
My son who isn't familiar with Amtrak was getting me a ticket fom Chicago to Philadelphia a couple of months back and it showed it a routing via LAX and he couldn't believe it! Opted to send me on the Capital Limited instead. :)
 
It seems that the OP's itinerary has been dropped as a published route.
 
Yes, I'm sure someone at AGR saw it here and decided it would be an abusive redemption. Unfortunately before I had a chance to book it!
As already noted by Ryan, it was never a valid AGR award:

The CHI-PHI in the OP? No, it violates the "circle trip" rule. It would have to be broken into either two 2-zone redemptions or a 1-zone and then a 3-zone redemption. to be legal.
So there would be no reason for anyone at AGR to even try to get it removed from the system; even if someone from AGR just happened to spot this thread. And try is all they can do anyhow; it is not within their direct powers to change any routing. They have to place a request with the proper department and hope that they agree that a change should be made.
 
Yes, I'm sure someone at AGR saw it here and decided it would be an abusive redemption. Unfortunately before I had a chance to book it!
As already noted by Ryan, it was never a valid AGR award:

The CHI-PHI in the OP? No, it violates the "circle trip" rule. It would have to be broken into either two 2-zone redemptions or a 1-zone and then a 3-zone redemption. to be legal.
So there would be no reason for anyone at AGR to even try to get it removed from the system; even if someone from AGR just happened to spot this thread. And try is all they can do anyhow; it is not within their direct powers to change any routing. They have to place a request with the proper department and hope that they agree that a change should be made.
Well, parts of the routing were valid as AGR and splitting it right could have probably gotten it for two 2-zone redemptions. For instance, I did CHI-ELP on a 2-zone award in May. And WPT-ATL was coming up as a valid 2-zone routing as well.

So why do you think it got removed? The computer just decided on its own to not to allow it anymore?

According to what many people have posted, the routes are all added manually, so I assume they are removed manually as well. Amtrak would certainly love to get $5,677 in revenue for a passenger on that routing, so it is not logical for Amtrak to have wanted it removed. I still believe that AGR probably had something to do with it. And I think that AGRInsider and the members he's helped would disagree with your statement that "it is not withing their direct powers to change any routing."
 
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No, he would very much agree with that. They can ask Operations to publish a route, but there's nothing they can do unilaterally.

Having the whole route published has no bearing on being able to book as separate redemptions.

As far as Amtrak wanting it listed, that's doubtful. They're in the business of providing meaningful transportation. This route doesn't provide that. Some options are nice, but this one was plain silly. Completely unsurprising that it was killed.
 
AGRInsider will only REQUEST routings that make sense.

In my case he asked to have the weekend train #(s) added for the connecting NER train(s) to the LSL. The NERs numbers are different on the weekends than their counterparts on the weekdays and were not put into the system originally.
 
Well, parts of the routing were valid as AGR and splitting it right could have probably gotten it for two 2-zone redemptions. For instance, I did CHI-ELP on a 2-zone award in May. And WPT-ATL was coming up as a valid 2-zone routing as well.
Yes, parts of it are valid as an AGR trip. And even now, without ARROW showing that routing, one could still piece together such a trip on points. But again, as a single award this trip could never have been booked, despite it showing in ARROW, because of the circle trip rule at AGR. That rule overrides the valid routing rule of AGR.

So why do you think it got removed? The computer just decided on its own to not to allow it anymore?
My guess is that it was some fluke in the system, perhaps even something that department was working on that somehow led to ARROW showing that as a valid routing. As they tested and cleaned up, they caught it. It's also possible that someone saw it and reported it to Amtrak. It could even be that AGR Insider saw it and reported it. But if he did, he did so simply because he wants Amtrak to provide the best information and logical routings. Not because he didn't want to have to give out such an award; he was already covered by the circle rule.

Just in case you didn't know, Anthony (AGR Insider) is the man who created this website. He did so back when he was still just a kid because he saw the hole in Amtrak information back then. He's spent more than half of his life trying to make sure that people get the proper information about Amtrak. And such a routing would only appeal to a railfan. Railfans only make up a very small percentage of Amtrak's business. He would have been worried about people saying "what the heck is this, they're sending me west to go east and charging me 5 grand. The heck with Amtrak.", then he would have been worried about awards that he already didn't have to give out.

According to what many people have posted, the routes are all added manually, so I assume they are removed manually as well. Amtrak would certainly love to get $5,677 in revenue for a passenger on that routing, so it is not logical for Amtrak to have wanted it removed.
Correct, they are added manually. It's the only way. And it is highly unlikely that Amtrak would ever sell such a ticket as only a railfan would even consider it. And one can still put such a trip together by using the multi-city option if you wish.

I still believe that AGR probably had something to do with it. And I think that AGRInsider and the members he's helped would disagree with your statement that "it is not withing their direct powers to change any routing."
I know what Anthony (AGR Insider) would say as I know him personally and he's told me how the process works. I've done multiple train trips with Anthony, many Gatherings with Anthony, helped him run this forum for many years until he had to give it up, and just last fall I attended a baseball game with him. I'm not trying to brag here, but I know the man personally and we've discussed many things about Amtrak over the years, including how routings are done and what he has to do when someone like AmtrakBlue contacts him about requesting a change.

Most of his requests have been honored over the last few years, but a few were rejected.
 
Honestly, I'd bet money that it was simply either a script or an order where, when the Empire Builder connections were restored, went through the Coast Starlight and ensured every connecting train from the Coast Starlight (and additional connections) were built back to the Empire Builder, without a sanity check. The connections would all be valid, and the connection corresponded with that.

Like Alan said, it's a routing only a railfan would love, and Amtrak's focus when showing routes to customers shouldn't be railfans.
 
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