Chicago Does It Again!

#50 departed last night with a crew short on HOS. The re-crew got stuck in a heap of a mess of traffic leaving it stuck with an Outlawed crew.

This is the second occurrence with in the past month or two where this has occurred. Most recent memory shows Train 48 leaving CHI with a crew short on HOS and the crew going dead en-route with the train ending up well over 10 hours late!

It seems that Amtrak needs to step up the hiring for Crews in and out of Chi-town.

Even the NEC sees issues on occasion. I fell victim to it in June. I was boarding 66 in Philadelphia and it didn't help that it arrived 2 hours late. In between PHL and TRE the Head End called CTEC 5? and asked if their was a crew waiting at TRE to replace them. CTEC 5? responded with "No, I wasn't aware you were short on HOS". To I simply almost gave in and contemplated getting off at TRE and going back to PHL. Even more so when their were no deadheading Employees on board who could run the train to at least NYP. The only deadheads were LSA's. The dispatcher then called a Work train that we had passed and requested that the Conductor be dropped at TRE to relief the conductors and then have the work train proceed to HAM and Tie Down. At HAM the Head End and a Second conductor took over and took the train to NYP where we made a very quick 7 minute stop. In those 7 minutes I briefly talked to the work train crew who were very funny and very nice to talk to. I cracked a joke saying "I bet running a 7,000 HP electric locomotive wasn't on your job list for tonight was it"? To which the Engineer said "It was funner then I thought it was gunna be"!

So crew shortages aren't just limited to Chicago. But Chicago is a major hub that shouldn't be having an issue. Sure hiring more qualified crews would be the answer. But it's a matter of having the funding for it and having the patience of people getting hired on and then saying we don't want this job. It's also hard to find people that are qualified to make it past the application stage. Railroads want folks with steady employment history and in these day and ages it's hard for that to happen.

Acela150 said:

Railroads want folks with steady employment history and in these day and ages it's hard for that to happen.

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If that's actually true, management needs to get over that bias. There are lots of really good workers with unsteady employment history through no fault of their own. (Remember, the job market has been awful for over 6 years and was honestly pretty bad for decades before that.) Hire them, don't be stupid.

neroden said:

Acela150 said:

Railroads want folks with steady employment history and in these day and ages it's hard for that to happen.

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If that's actually true, management needs to get over that bias. There are lots of really good workers with unsteady employment history through no fault of their own. (Remember, the job market has been awful for over 6 years and was honestly pretty bad for decades before that.) Hire them, don't be stupid.

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Why wouldn't that be true? Railroads want to know that they are hiring someone who enjoys a steady environment. Railroads are very picky when it comes to recruiting.

Talking to major employers in our area brings out one important issue that is affecting a lot of the unemployed. They cannot pass the drug tests... . The country has a significant problem that many turn a blind eye to. We have some decent jobs waiting for people but they don't qualify for that reason.

Acela150 said:

Why wouldn't that be true? Railroads want to know that they are hiring someone who enjoys a steady environment.

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It may be true. If so, they need to GET OVER IT. You will find ZERO applicants who have a steady job history in this economy -- people get laid off way too often to develop a steady job history. And people who are in good enough positions that they have a steady job history will not apply for non-management jobs like this; they'll stay in their existing positions!
Most of American business is incredibly cavalier and callous about laying people off. The result is that the best workers you can find are going to have very spotty job histories. It is a really dumb filter to apply.

This isn't the 1950s, when a job was usually a job-for-life. Such a filter on applicants might have made sense then, it makes no sense now.

neroden said:

Acela150 said:

Why wouldn't that be true? Railroads want to know that they are hiring someone who enjoys a steady environment.

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It may be true. If so, they need to GET OVER IT. You will find ZERO applicants who have a steady job history in this economy -- people get laid off way too often to develop a steady job history.

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Rate of layoff depends rather on the industry. That being said, on average there are 250 applicants for every job opening. There's really nothing stopping the railroads from being as picky as they want to be, they'll find qualified applicants. The issue here is simply a low headcount, not that they can't find qualified persons for it.

Edit: The real issue with hiring qualified people is that so many of the applicant tracking systems are complete crap, especially Taleo.

Bill, Drug testing for positions such as a Conductor and Engineer are very tough to beat. From my testing sessions with Conrail they explain the process during the session and how it works. The FRA mandates a Urine test and they also take several Hair follicles. The urine test determines short term results and the Hair will show up to 90 days along with that comes the random drug testing. Each railroad is different when it comes to Alcohol use from what I'm hearing. Conrail has a limit of a certain amount of alcohol in the body within the 24 hours pre-drug test. IINM NS is Zero Tolerance. Every railroad is different. I've never been much of a drinker, my last drink was in December at the Fire Company banquet. I've never used any illegal drug. I take daily medications to help with Depression and now I take a Thyroid Hormone replacer, along with a Calcium medication. The guy who runs the testing sessions for Conrail (Bill Judge) states that prescription medication are ok and Conrail's medical department is very understanding.

Twice in the past month I've been invited to hiring sessions for Norfolk Southern, once two weeks after my surgery and I couldn't drive the hour to get to it, and same place and position in August. I've decided to decline the August session as well. After my surgery I was given Narcotic pain killers in the hospital and upon discharge. Say NS offers me a position when they test my hair it'll test positive for the Narcotic pain killers which I've been off of for a little over a month. So when they see I have narcotics in my system they are going to withdrawal the employment offer. I'm sure a letter from my surgeon would possibly override that, but according to Bill Judge of Conrail and things I've read that if you test positive for any type of illegal drug it leaves a black mark on your record and trying to get hired with another railroad would be harder then before. Considering I'm 22 almost 23 and going to a school to get me a job in the Rail industry I've cautiously been watching my food intake as I know certain foods can show a positive result for Cocaine or Marijuana. I know for sure poppyseed, I'm not 100% sure about sesame seeds. Which sucks cause as of late I've been dying for a Five Guys burger and their buns have Sesame Seeds on them. Not to mention I'm trying to lose some weight. But drug testing is very tight and rightfully so. I wouldn't want to be working with someone who is under the influence of something he or she shouldn't be.

Sesame seeds won't affect a drug test. Go enjoy a burger.

neroden said:

Acela150 said:

Why wouldn't that be true? Railroads want to know that they are hiring someone who enjoys a steady environment.

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It may be true. If so, they need to GET OVER IT. You will find ZERO applicants who have a steady job history in this economy -- people get laid off way too often to develop a steady job history. And people who are in good enough positions that they have a steady job history will not apply for non-management jobs like this; they'll stay in their existing positions!
Most of American business is incredibly cavalier and callous about laying people off. The result is that the best workers you can find are going to have very spotty job histories. It is a really dumb filter to apply.

This isn't the 1950s, when a job was usually a job-for-life. Such a filter on applicants might have made sense then, it makes no sense now.

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Nathaniel, from what I've read around the internet the main reason railroads want to see steady Employment is once offered employment and they pass the Drug Screening (See Above Post) and DOT Medical Exam, and then Classroom training onto in the field training the turnover rate is currently low. Meaning folks go through all this training and much more and after a year say, I don't want this job and quit. For instance the longest job I've held is a part time job for 4 years. I'm 22 and will be 23 in a few weeks. The rest of my resume is jobs that I held for no more then 6 months. One job was a seasonal job and I was 16 when I held that job, the second was full time that I held for 6 months. I left that job due to personal reasons. When I had a second senior panel interview with Conrail they asked me why I left, I explained I left to take care of a family member and the parting was mutual. Finding employees who want to stay with the railroad for their career is hard now a days. I personally think part of the problem is the "Extra Board List" folks get intimidated by the fact that they don't know when they will work and could get a call at 3am saying show up in 2 hours and that can last for more then 5 years until they have seniority.

Paulus said:

neroden said:

Acela150 said:

Why wouldn't that be true? Railroads want to know that they are hiring someone who enjoys a steady environment.

Click to expand...

It may be true. If so, they need to GET OVER IT. You will find ZERO applicants who have a steady job history in this economy -- people get laid off way too often to develop a steady job history.

Click to expand...

Rate of layoff depends rather on the industry. That being said, on average there are 250 applicants for every job opening. There's really nothing stopping the railroads from being as picky as they want to be, they'll find qualified applicants. The issue here is simply a low headcount, not that they can't find qualified persons for it.

Edit: The real issue with hiring qualified people is that so many of the applicant tracking systems are complete crap, especially Taleo.

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BNSF is a classic example of low head counts. Their policy was if you test for Conductor or Engineer and you were denied you have to wait for one year to reapply. Recently they changed it to 6 months. That's because they are in such a shortage of crews! It's not just Amtrak that's short on crews BNSF is becoming desperate and it shows by going from 1 year to reapply to 6 Months. If one thinks about it BNSF is handling most of the Oil Traffic from the Bakken Crude Oil Fields. Then transfer it to NS, CSX, UP, KCS, CN, and so on and so forth. It's a matter of hiring someone who wants the job and wants to keep the job!

SarahZ said:

Sesame seeds won't affect a drug test. Go enjoy a burger.

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You don't realize how ecstatic I am to hear you say that! I'm going to Five Guys first thing tomorrow and getting a burger! I'm sending you a thank you hug through my computer! Plus I've managed to eat relatively healthy since my surgery to the point where when I saw my surgeon Last Thursday he was surprised to see that in the month since my surgery I've lost about 10-15 pounds instead of gaining 10-15 pounds. I used to eat junk food all the time and when I found out I wouldn't have my thyroid for the rest of my life and a pill would take it's place kinda was a wake up call to start eating healthier. I had the local Pizza shop deliver a pizza and Buffalo Chicken Cheesesteak a few days after I got home but that was over a month ago. That's really the last thing I've had to eat that was "Junk Food".

I was laid off from my job in manufacturing four years ago. I don't drink, I've maybe ordered 3 beers in my life, don't smoke, never have never will, I have never done illegal drugs, I stopped going to concerts for a while because of all the funky smoke in the air. After two years, I pretty much gave up looking for work because NOBODY was hiring, you have no idea of the meaning of depressed until you get a rejection letter from McDonalds. I'm now a caretaker for my grandmother with Dementia. My family is helping support me thankfully. But you know, I'm just a bad, unemployable person because I don't have a steady work history anymore. This isn't a woe is me post, but whoever said that people who don't have a steady work history because they can't pass a drug test is spouting total and complete BS.

Michael061282 said:

I was laid off from my job in manufacturing four years ago. I don't drink, I've maybe ordered 3 beers in my life, don't smoke, never have never will, I have never done illegal drugs.... This isn't a woe is me post, but whoever said that people who don't have a steady work history because they can't pass a drug test is spouting total and complete BS.

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Michael—Have you looked into trying to break into the trades? In my recent work here I have come into contact with a number of managers from contractors, and they uniformly say that they are crying to find young people who can pass a drug test and who have the basic math skills to read a tape measure and compute 1/4" per foot and read and write well enough to fill out a job ticket. They can't find them! I talked with one young lady; she had an education degree and a teaching certificate and was actually an elementary school teacher before she left to learn the plumbing trade. She was making more as a second-year apprentice plumber than she had made as a school teacher with a degree!

I learned the basics of stationary engineering in the Navy and Merchant Marine, and in the 25 years since I left while I've been laid off or let go many times I've never yet been out of work long enough to collect a single unemployment check. As always your mileage may vary, but one of the nice things about working as an electrician or plumber or HVAC tech is that while they can outsource you, they can't offshore your job if they want to keep the lights and air on!

my best drug test story,,,

had a kidney stone and they gave me two shots of morphine

pain with a KS is awesome

next day got called in for a random pee test

passed with flying colors

The hiring drug testing is only half insane. Even if the drug test is accurate - which some of the cheapo ones aren't. (catching poppyseeds and missing meth, for example)

mo

The serious drugs - like meth, crack, heroin, ethanol - clear out in hours or days.

Cannabis and nicotine (cotinine) take weeks to clear.

Good on the railroad if they take the trouble and expense to do the hair test (limited in what it can show).

But - it's not hard for a functioning addict to keep clean for a few days - pass the employment test - etc.

Railroad Bill said:

Talking to major employers in our area brings out one important issue that is affecting a lot of the unemployed. They cannot pass the drug tests... . The country has a significant problem that many turn a blind eye to. We have some decent jobs waiting for people but they don't qualify for that reason.

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Really? What drugs are causing issues in your area?

I'm thinking that "the railroads" are totally out of their depth when it comes to hiring - after decades of cutting back, but knowing their 20-40 year people will retire "soon" - now some of them - especially BNSF with the oil boom - they have to hire, but they don't know how.

Railroad Bill said:

Talking to major employers in our area brings out one important issue that is affecting a lot of the unemployed. They cannot pass the drug tests... . The country has a significant problem that many turn a blind eye to. We have some decent jobs waiting for people but they don't qualify for that reason.

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Now that marijuana has been legalized, I wonder if employers will still disqualify for that reason. OK, I know I'm ignorant about it, but it seems that having pot in one's system would impair his judgment about as much as alcohol.

Just to be clear for those who may not know-Marijuana may be legal recreationally in two states and medically in a few more, but it is still prohibited Federally-Conductors and Engineers are federally licensed and regulated, any cannabis on a pre-employment, random, post accident, reasonable cause, or reasonable suspicion drug test is in violation. If applying, cannot be hired. If currently certified, lose your engineer license or conductor certificate for 9 months, first offense. Just because it's legal at a state level, does not give a pass at the federal, even for medical use-it's a prohibited substance.

Everydaymatters said:

Railroad Bill said:

Talking to major employers in our area brings out one important issue that is affecting a lot of the unemployed. They cannot pass the drug tests... . The country has a significant problem that many turn a blind eye to. We have some decent jobs waiting for people but they don't qualify for that reason.

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Now that marijuana has been legalized, I wonder if employers will still disqualify for that reason. OK, I know I'm ignorant about it, but it seems that having pot in one's system would impair his judgment about as much as alcohol.

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It can if you smoke enough, but unlike alcohol, it stays in your system for about 30 days (depending on how much you smoked, body weight, etc).

So, someone could have smoked a little bit two weekends ago, and it will still show up, even though they are completely and totally sober that day. If you have a drink at a wedding two weeks before the test, it won't show up at all. That's where alcohol and marijuana differ, as far as tests go.

Marijuana is an herb, not a drug, but I still don't want people operating any kind of machinery under it's influence, especially drivers and railroaders! (Same thing for alcohol and all other mind altering substances!)

Get high on your time, not on the job!

jimhudson said:

Marijuana is an herb, not a drug, but I still don't want people operating any kind of machinery under it's influence, especially drivers and railroaders! (Same thing for alcohol and all other mind altering substances!)

Get high on your time, not on the job!

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Agreed. That should go without saying.

Acela150 said:

SarahZ said:

Sesame seeds won't affect a drug test. Go enjoy a burger.

Click to expand...

You don't realize how ecstatic I am to hear you say that! I'm going to Five Guys first thing tomorrow and getting a burger! I'm sending you a thank you hug through my computer! Plus I've managed to eat relatively healthy since my surgery to the point where when I saw my surgeon Last Thursday he was surprised to see that in the month since my surgery I've lost about 10-15 pounds instead of gaining 10-15 pounds. I used to eat junk food all the time and when I found out I wouldn't have my thyroid for the rest of my life and a pill would take it's place kinda was a wake up call to start eating healthier. I had the local Pizza shop deliver a pizza and Buffalo Chicken Cheesesteak a few days after I got home but that was over a month ago. That's really the last thing I've had to eat that was "Junk Food".

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If you want a really good burger, like REALLY good, go to the Willow Grove Park Mall. There is a place there called Burger Monger that offers 100% Akashi Kobe beef, and is seriously in the same price bracket as Five Guys. Phenominal.

Betty: even in the states where pot is legal it is illegal to operate motor vehicles under its influence, just like alcohol. Pot intoxicates, and like other intoxicating drugs it is legally required to use it responsibly.

jimhudson said:

Marijuana is an herb, not a drug, but I still don't want people operating any kind of machinery under it's influence, especially drivers and railroaders! (Same thing for alcohol and all other mind altering substances!)

Get high on your time, not on the job!

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That's simply not true. By definition,

1. Pharmacology . a chemical substance used in the treatment, cure, prevention, or diagnosis of disease or used to otherwise enhance physical or mental well-being.

2.

a. any substance recognized in the official pharmacopoeia or formulary of the nation.

b. any substance intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease in humans or other animals.

c. any article, other than food, intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of humans or other animals.

d. any substance intended for use as a component of such a drug, but not a device or a part of a device.

3. a habit-forming medicinal or illicit substance, especially a narcotic.

4. drugs.

a. chemical substances prepared and sold as pharmaceutical items, either by prescription or over the counter.

b. personal hygienic items sold in a drugstore, as toothpaste, mouthwash, etc.

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So, yes, by definition, pot is a drug, as is caffeine, as is mouthwash, as is nicotine.

Acela150 said:

Meaning folks go through all this training and much more and after a year say, I don't want this job and quit.

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That's definitely an issue....

I personally think part of the problem is the "Extra Board List" folks get intimidated by the fact that they don't know when they will work and could get a call at 3am saying show up in 2 hours and that can last for more then 5 years until they have seniority.

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Yeah, when that's the state of your job, it doesn't exactly inspire you to NOT go looking for another job, does it?

Paulus said:

Edit: The real issue with hiring qualified people is that so many of the applicant tracking systems are complete crap, especially Taleo.

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Oh my god, that makes so much sense. It's so easy to do a horrible job with IT at HR.

BNSF is a classic example of low head counts. Their policy was if you test for Conductor or Engineer and you were denied you have to wait for one year to reapply. Recently they changed it to 6 months. That's because they are in such a shortage of crews!

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OK, so it sounds like that's the root of the problem -- management simply deciding to keep low headcounts. When they need to be staffing up. Obviously, when you have only 1 position open and 250 applicants, you (as the person doing hiring) start doing stupid things to filter out applicants, just to get the paperwork off your desk; but when you need to staff up, you need to stop doing the stupid things and start taking anyone who's qualified, regardless of whether previous companies have laid them off.

Green Maned Lion said:

Betty: even in the states where pot is legal it is illegal to operate motor vehicles under its influence, just like alcohol. Pot intoxicates, and like other intoxicating drugs it is legally required to use it responsibly.

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I was wondering about that. Thanks. In the BNL area there is a company that wants to grow it and it looks like the city will allow it.