Current floodwater status on Empire Builder

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June the Coach Rider

June the Coach Rider

OBS Chief
Joined
Sep 15, 2012
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Spencer, MA
I leave tomorrow on the LSL to CHI and then take the EB to PDX. I am wondering how the current status of the flooding in the midwest is affecting the route of the EB and if they just detour the train or use a bustitution if there is a flood problem.
 
The main challenge is Fargo, ND. Normally the trains can continue to move thru this area-and thru Fargo if the flood waters are below a 38 foot rise in the Red River at the Moorehead MN/Fargo, ND crossing. The Red River is not scheduled to hit this number (and then only briefly) until next Tuesday or Wednesday. So you should b eOK.

BUT, with that being said Amtrak might so something "precautionary" and cancel trains in anticipation. I would keep in touch with Amtrak each day.
 
Right now it looks like you should not have any troubles at Fargo, but it looks like it is starting to melt, so over the next week the rivers are going to rise quite a bit.
 
Currently, the river is approaching 22 feet:

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nd/nwis/uv/%3fsite_no=?station=05054000

USGS.05054000.07.00065..20130419.20130426..0..gif


Looks like it's gaining about 2 feet per day at this point.
 
anir dendroica said:
See also this thread:http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/54835-fargo-flooding-next-week-eb-detour-likely/

If it is only the Red River in major flood (and not the Souris at Minot or other smaller streams), then a detour bypassing Grand Forks, Devils Lake, and Rugby is more likely than a cancellation. It would take a record flood crest (higher than 40.8 feet in 2009) to shut down the Red River crossing.

Mark
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According to this the Souris will get 1.6 feet above flood and then quickly go back down.

http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=bis&gage=minn8
 
You can bet that Minot really does not want to challenge that 2009 record flood. Especially since they (again) just reopened their depot after spending over a $500k repairing the damage done then. :eek:
 
NorthCoastHiawatha said:
anir dendroica said:
See also this thread:http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/54835-fargo-flooding-next-week-eb-detour-likely/

If it is only the Red River in major flood (and not the Souris at Minot or other smaller streams), then a detour bypassing Grand Forks, Devils Lake, and Rugby is more likely than a cancellation. It would take a record flood crest (higher than 40.8 feet in 2009) to shut down the Red River crossing.

Mark
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According to this the Souris will get 1.6 feet above flood and then quickly go back down.

http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=bis&gage=minn8
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The Souris is not looking like a problem this year. The river has several flood control reservoirs upstream from Minot which are all now empty and will be filling with snowmelt. 2009 was exceptional because heavy rains arrived in May and June when the reservoirs were all filled to capacity.
 
Blackwolf said:
You can bet that Minot really does not want to challenge that 2009 record flood. Especially since they (again) just reopened their depot after spending over a $500k repairing the damage done then. :eek:
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Do you mean 2011? I believe it was two years ago rather than 4 that the Minot depot was flooded and the EB had to be outright cancelled...
 
The problem with the Souris is that the snow pack this year is Canada is very heavy and is just now starting to melt and this river starts in Canada goes south into North Dakota then back north in to Canada then back south through Minot then into the Missouri. The first bend into North Dakota is now starting to show flooding.
 
gn2276 said:
The problem with the Souris is that the snow pack this year is Canada is very heavy and is just now starting to melt and this river starts in Canada goes south into North Dakota then back north in to Canada then back south through Minot then into the Missouri. The first bend into North Dakota is now starting to show flooding.
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The Souris begins in Canada, loops south through North Dakota (and Minot), then flows back north into Canada and empties into the Assiniboine in Manitoba, then into the Red River at Winnipeg.

The river has been in minor flood stage for the past few weeks due to reservoir releases in preparation for snowmelt. Releases have now stopped, and if heavy rains don't enter into the equation the flood control system should be able to keep the river at manageable levels.
 
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Fargo flood crest has been revised downward to 37 feet on May 1. That may still be high enough to force a detour for a few days, but a catastrophic flood is looking less likely.
 
anir dendroica said:
Fargo flood crest has been revised downward to 37 feet on May 1. That may still be high enough to force a detour for a few days, but a catastrophic flood is looking less likely.
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Looking at the status maps both 7 and 8 had no problems last night and are running ontime. It also looks like there won't be any major rain events outside of a few scattered showers either. Just what I wanted to hear, looks like if this continue as forecast things should be alright by the May 12/13th
 
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Normally flood waters would have to exceed 39 feet for issues around Fargo. With the lower crest forecasted and limited flooding elsewhere hopefully things will go well for you. By next weekend the crest will have passed and Fargo will be just dealing with the aftermath of high waters in the usual flood prone places along the river and by the following weekend the river should be back in its banks!
 
Update Monday at 10 AM: NOAA has just lowered the crest to 35.5 feet, which means none of the major bridges in Fargo (including the rail bridge) will be effected. The only possible issues now would be overland flooding from rapid snowmelt around Devil's Lake and since the snowpack is essentially now all melted and no heavy rain is expected in the next 7 days this event, while serious, should not stop the EB--time will tell if this is indeed the most likely scenario. Mother Nature may still throw something at the folks in ND......
 
montana mike said:
Update Monday at 10 AM: NOAA has just lowered the crest to 35.5 feet, which means none of the major bridges in Fargo (including the rail bridge) will be effected. The only possible issues now would be overland flooding from rapid snowmelt around Devil's Lake and since the snowpack is essentially now all melted and no heavy rain is expected in the next 7 days this event, while serious, should not stop the EB--time will tell if this is indeed the most likely scenario. Mother Nature may still throw something at the folks in ND......
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They have downgraded it further to a 34ft crest early tomorrow morning.
 
this was posted on a newsgroup.

Devils Lake is no longer a threat to the Empire Builder, and even the Hillsboro subdivision looks like it should escape flooding, but rapid snowmelt and North Dakota flatness have combined to place the track underwater near Granville (between Minot and Rugby). The Empire Builder will detour via New Rockford until the water recedes.
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Ah, ha. So both trains still running just the usual Amtrak non-information when something changes in the route or schedule? I am familiar with that area--it is indeed flat and often wet. How ironic, the Fargo area has come thru almost completely untouched (at least as far as the trains are concerned) but this one small area in central ND is causing an issue. At least the Surrey cutoff is a viable "Plan B".
 
I'll certainly be keeping an eye on this thread as I will be on the w/b EB in a few weeks time and will hopefully connect to the s/b CS to bring me home. Scheduled layover at PDX is almost 4 1/2 hrs so I'm not too concerned at this point. :)
 
If Summer ever comes before all is said and done we'll have delays, reroutes and cancellations on our usual suspect flooding routes, including the Empire Builder and California Zephyr.
 
Quoting from Gene Poon:

Flooding on the Red River has forced BNSF to detour Amtrak 8(29) and 7(30) on the KOSub tonight. The trains will miss three stops: Rugby, Devils Lake and Grand Forks; so they

have been placed into Service Disruption status. Train 8(29) is now about a half hour late

east of Malvern with no problems, but once on the detour, Amtrak has no priority. It runs

along with the current of traffic, so it’s not known how it will run between Minot and Fargo.

Train 7(30) was placed into Service Disruption prior to departure from Chicago.

BNSF will be making day-to-day decisions on detours until the Red River subsides.
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With the Red River having crested (at 33.3 feet) late last night, well below forecasts and the Souris River around Minot behaving in a reasonable manner, and no heavy rains in the forecast for at least the next week or so, it looks like things will get back to "normal" (whatever that is) by next week, as most of the flood warnings and advisories are set to expire at the end of this week or early next week. So far BNSF has not reported any significant damage or degradation to their tracks-so far.
 
jis said:
Quoting from Gene Poon:

Flooding on the Red River has forced BNSF to detour Amtrak 8(29) and 7(30) on the KOSub tonight. The trains will miss three stops: Rugby, Devils Lake and Grand Forks; so they

have been placed into Service Disruption status. Train 8(29) is now about a half hour late

east of Malvern with no problems, but once on the detour, Amtrak has no priority. It runs

along with the current of traffic, so it’s not known how it will run between Minot and Fargo.

Train 7(30) was placed into Service Disruption prior to departure from Chicago.

BNSF will be making day-to-day decisions on detours until the Red River subsides.
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According to the status map Train 8(29) departed Milwaukee 2 minutes early and is estimated into Chicago 19 minutes early, so I guess it did ok.
 
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