Is This Forum Really Worth The Time and Effort?

Ya know folks, I love trains, it is a great hobby, I like Amtrak and I like chatting about it with like minded people, knowing we have something in common. But today, I think we reached a real low here on Amtrak Unlimited. I read the bashing of three dead human beings because they had the nerve to be killed by a train while walking on the tracks and furthermore their stupidity caused the train to delay. Wow, how terrible for them! Shame on them!

The sarcasim reached a fever pitch when some **** got on and called them every name he could think of. Of course he was most pissed as their remains had to be scraped off the train and of course delayed the passengers. I am sorry but a life is a life, no matter how uninformed or careless it is used Why don't you take your loud mouth to schools and homeless centers and talk to people and explain why they should not walk on train tracks. Try education instead of bashing, talk to the homeless and tell them why they should not sleep on tracks. Talk to gangbangers and ask em why they draw graffiti under overpasses. Fix the problem instead of bashing dead humans. Ignorant or not, you have no right to judge them, that, my friend, is left to The Almighty.

So, I would just like everyone here to recount anytime in your life you walked on a train track and report for admonishment.

I am not coming back here, this was really enough for me guyz! So, dude you can bash me all you want, I don't care to listen to you. Lots more people are gonna die until you do something about it. After all, it is a free form. You now know my feelings.

I have to say that I felt the same way when I read that thread. I was disgusted with what some people would say about 3 people who had died. 3 people with families, presumably. I was tempted to blame it on cultural differences. I wanted to be believe that "only in America" would people say such hurtful things but I remembered an incident in my own city where 2 children were killed in similar circumstances. Everyone wanted to blame the children. People lashed out at the mother, saying she had no right to grieve because it was her own fault for letting the children play on the tracks. Today 27 "illegal immigrants" killed in a shipwreck - an absolute tragedy. Yet people say we shouldn't have bothered rescuing the survivors. These feelings and statements are not acceptable in supposedly civilised societies. Trespass is a relatively minor offence. I'm sure many railfans have done it trying to get that perfect photo. Death is a penalty too harsh for this crime. To add ridicule on top of that is unspeakable.

A man they called Jesus once said that "if your slate is clean then you can throw stones. If your slate is not then leave (them) alone." I wonder what Jesus would think of this forum?

This was such a pressing matter that we needed to start a different thread to talk about the other thread?

If you can't blame the morons for putting themselves in the path of tons of heavy equipment that can't stop or turn, who are you going to blame? The engineer? The RR company? No, these people are wholly responsible for their own deaths.

Ryan said:

This was such a pressing matter that we needed to start a different thread to talk about the other thread?

If you can't blame the morons for putting themselves in the path of tons of heavy equipment that can't stop or turn, who are you going to blame? The engineer? The RR company? No, these people are wholly responsible for their own deaths.

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How do you know they were morons? Obviously, they made a bad decision. Does one bad decision make you a moron? If so, we might as well all be morons.

I was also disturbed by this discussion thread. In addition to how the deceased were disrespected, I was appalled that some commenters were hoping that the deceased were certain public servants. It is okay to disagree with ones views, but to wish harm on them crosses the line.

I'm betting that every individual who posts here thinks that life is precious, once they come out from "behind the keyboard". But in today's modern world, we are bombarded everywhere, with "instant 'news'....." whether we like it or not.

So we become de-sensitized. I'm guilty. But I think we also have to "look past" the rude, careless, uncaring comments if they insult us. It's just some moron, (maybe me) making a stoopid statement. Sometimes meant to shock, sometimes meant to express disbelief, sometimes because they may have had one too many glasses of wine.

We are all free to lurk, post, or not, visit, or write-off this forum. A lot of posts take wildly different directions from the Original Post. That's normal.

Unless the attacks are "personal", I try to just Grin-And-Bear-It.

I think I'm caught in between. Yes, I think what they did was stupid, but they were also probably of the mind that they were "invulnerable" and "immortal". And another valid point has been brought up - about walking on "active" railroad tracks. And I am guilty.

My family spent every August at my Grandmother's house in Kennewick, Washington. She had a railroad running right in front of the house. It was an "off-shoot" from a mainline along the Columbia River and it went into town. In front of her house were two sidings along with the main track and there were always boxcars, et al, parked on those sidings. If you walked way out to the front of her property where the track was, you could see the Union Pacific engine that parked itself about a quarter mile down the line at the next crossing down. Every time the bells would start ringing at the railroad crossing in front of her place, we would go running out to the lawn to see what was coming. We would plug our ears because that train horn was loud, but we'd give that old arm pumping motion that you might give to a trucker on the road to get them to blow the horn and the guys on the train were very happy to give us a toot right back and wave at us. We loved it because they'd pull just out of sight past the fence at the edge of the property and then the switching would begin. We'd try to guess what was coming - boxcars, tankers, etc - or what was being taken away. And they always seemed to switch the cars twice a day around the same time morning and evening.

So, my father - against the wishes of my mother - would take us out to the tracks to lay down pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters and then we'd go back to get the newly smashed coins after they were done switching. He would never take us to the sidings, however - we were NOT allowed near the parked boxcars, etc. And sometimes he would also walk us a ways down the track - again, against the wishes of my mother. But he would only do that in broad daylight. There were no bridges and plenty of room to get off the tracks everywhere we went - plus it was a long straight stretch so there'd be no surprises.

So yes, I am just as guilty of having walked along railroad tracks, but did so knowing the issues, in the daylight, with clear getaway if needed - and without any malice intended.

jbHOOS said:

How do you know they were morons? Obviously, they made a bad decision. Does one bad decision make you a moron? If so, we might as well all be morons.

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Yes. When you place yourself in front of a train with no way out, you're a moron.

Edit to add: BigRedEO makes an excellent point. The "you guys walk on active tracks to get your pictures" argument doesn't really apply - if you are aware of your surroundings and exercise the appropriate amount of caution, it's pretty easy to not get hit by a train. If you don't? We see what that gets you. I feel worse for the train's engineer (and other crewmembers) and the first responders than I do for the people that caused the incident.

I agree complaining about a delayed train due to someones death is in poor taste.

I personally have been very guilty of it on the NYC subway (its not fun waiting in a subway car for over an our, underground, without any power in the summer!)

But I think there is a big difference in the level of tragedy between an adult who gets hit by a train and another walking on the sidewalk or legally crossing the street killed by a poor driver.

I do not buy the argument that loss of life is equally tragic in all cases.

Personally I feel more sympathy for the train crew looking on helpless to do anything and for the families of those individuals, they did not do anything to deserve their sorrow.

so we are supposed to be supportive of people like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXiINuDoDOM&feature=related

ButFli said:

I have to say that I felt the same way when I read that thread. I was disgusted with what some people would say about 3 people who had died. 3 people with families, presumably. I was tempted to blame it on cultural differences. I wanted to be believe that "only in America" would people say such hurtful things but I remembered an incident in my own city where 2 children were killed in similar circumstances. Everyone wanted to blame the children. People lashed out at the mother, saying she had no right to grieve because it was her own fault for letting the children play on the tracks. Today 27 "illegal immigrants" killed in a shipwreck - an absolute tragedy. Yet people say we shouldn't have bothered rescuing the survivors. These feelings and statements are not acceptable in supposedly civilised societies. Trespass is a relatively minor offence. I'm sure many railfans have done it trying to get that perfect photo. Death is a penalty too harsh for this crime. To add ridicule on top of that is unspeakable.

A man they called Jesus once said that "if your slate is clean then you can throw stones. If your slate is not then leave (them) alone." I wonder what Jesus would think of this forum?

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Thinking that illegal immigrants have less of a right to be mourned than the average man is, indeed, wrong.

Humans are, first and foremost, animals. As animals, we must live and evolve. Our group contains members who are less fit for surviving than others. One way to be less fit for surviving is to do something inordinately stupid for no good reason. Such as walking around or on train tracks without being extremely careful to keep in mind the inherent risks.

I spend a lot of time in junkyards, and that is a dangerous environment. As someone working in there, I wear heavy, cut resistant clothing, cut resistant, heat resistant gloves, steel-toed boots, and so on. Because I am aware of the risks I am taking by being where I am. I'm not stupid for being there... but I would be if I was wearing shorts, a t-shirt, and open-toed sandels. I'd feel no compassion for the kid in the junkyard who slices his hand open because he couldn't be assed to wear a pair of gloves. I feel no compassion for a human who got killed on the train tracks because they didn't bother to take steps to avoid the train.

I see the death of a person unfit for his environment, be it because he is in a junkyard without safety equipment, or wandering obliviously on train tracks, to not be tragic. It is merely life going on as it is meant to do. A rabbit who doesn't bother to determine that a food item is poisonous before eating it should die- as a matter of life going on. A person who doesn't bother to determine that train tracks require caution when moving around them- and bother to exercise that caution- equally deserves to die.

To feel otherwise is to believe that we as humans are not just superior, but that our lives are more valuable than that of other creatures that think, live, and survive on this planet. I consider that attitude to be one of the most disgusting attitudes espoused by anyone. If you think it is wrong for me to hold that belief, and continue acting in a manner that is consistent with my belief, to the point where you want to leave this forum, then good riddance.

You don't have to agree with me. But trying to shove your belief that humanity is worth more than other life forms down my throat is another matter entirely.

So according to some of these theories, it is "just life going on" when a parent or relative dies of cancer because he/she chose to smoke? Is it the person's fault or society's for promoting it? I guess it is wrong to mourn that then.... we are all "animals" huh?

As much as I hesitate to do so, based on several factors, NONE of them personal, I have to agree with what GML says.

However, when it hits "home" (that is, impacts your life directly) everyone, well ALMOST everyone, has a different attitude.

It is rare today to see the relative of the grieving loved-ones saying on record, "well, it wasn't XYZ's fault, 'Joe Blow' shouldn't have been there in the first place........"

Check the old archives, (are there any other kind?) you will find in the past, (although the media was much less pervasive) families of loved ones killed, took much more responsibility, right or wrong.

When ever anyone decides to put themsleves in the path of a speeding train there is nothing that the engineer can do to save them. NO train cannot stop on a dime. So next time you see people going through grade crossing signals or trying to beat the train across the tracks; it should be assumed that they are in fact morons.

As for the forum being worth the time and effort. Answer the question yourself. Last I looked we were all here on a voluntary basis.

Ok Children, Please remember the holidays and play nice!

Aloha

GG-1 said:

Ok Children, Please remember the holidays and play nice!

Aloha

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I second this motion. Well, except for the 'aloha' part, as I'm on the right (NOT a moral judgement)coast. :wacko:

GG-1 said:

Ok Children, Please remember the holidays and play nice!

Aloha

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even when it's not the holidays, play nice anyway.

Zepherdude, I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that we want you in the forum. I agree that too many posts have been insensitive and irresponsible. All the more reason for you to stay. Your input is informative and intelligent. Your comments are needed here. Please re-think this and decide to stay.

Merely wanting to fund passenger rail in America doesn't make us a "train cult," but repeatedly blaming dead people for holding up the train might. Especially when we don't even wait long enough to find out what really happened before we immediately start passing judgement on who should live or die. That part of our discourse sounds a lot like a cult to me.

daxomni said:

Merely wanting to fund passenger rail in America doesn't make us a "train cult," but repeatedly blaming dead people for holding up the train might.

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Perhaps you'd be willing to take a swing at answering the question I asked upthread:

If you can't blame the morons for putting themselves in the path of tons of heavy equipment that can't stop or turn, who are you going to blame? The engineer? The RR company?

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I promise you the very worst feeling is being in emergency brake application at 79 mph and watching a carload of teen-agers crumble underneath the snow plow of your lead unit. The cries for help will never leave me. And if you happen to hit someone in a small town it seems nobody ever forgets, "You killed my cousins." No buddy, they committed suicide...

had8ley said:

I promise you the very worst feeling is being in emergency brake application at 79 mph and watching a carload of teen-agers crumble underneath the snow plow of your lead unit. The cries for help will never leave me. And if you happen to hit someone in a small town it seems nobody ever forgets, "You killed my cousins." No buddy, they committed suicide...

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Thanks Jay, think that pretty much sums it up, always take the word of someone who has been there, done that! As a retired Engineer and really nice guy think your perspective should find agreement with most members here, any contrarians or Nervous Nellies have their own problems, this Forum is just that, a place to share info about things trains and express opinions!

jimhudson said:

had8ley said:

I promise you the very worst feeling is being in emergency brake application at 79 mph and watching a carload of teen-agers crumble underneath the snow plow of your lead unit. The cries for help will never leave me. And if you happen to hit someone in a small town it seems nobody ever forgets, "You killed my cousins." No buddy, they committed suicide...

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Thanks Jay, think that pretty much sums it up, always take the word of someone who has been there, done that! As a retired Engineer and really nice guy think your perspective should find agreement with most members here, any contrarians or Nervous Nellies have their own problems, this Forum is just that, a place to share info about things trains and express opinions!

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Seconded. Like I said above, I really feel for the engineers, they're the ones who are deserving of our sympathy and understanding.

Ryan said:

jimhudson said:

had8ley said:

I promise you the very worst feeling is being in emergency brake application at 79 mph and watching a carload of teen-agers crumble underneath the snow plow of your lead unit. The cries for help will never leave me. And if you happen to hit someone in a small town it seems nobody ever forgets, "You killed my cousins." No buddy, they committed suicide...

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Thanks Jay, think that pretty much sums it up, always take the word of someone who has been there, done that! As a retired Engineer and really nice guy think your perspective should find agreement with most members here, any contrarians or Nervous Nellies have their own problems, this Forum is just that, a place to share info about things trains and express opinions!

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Seconded. Like I said above, I really feel for the engineers, they're the ones who are deserving of our sympathy and understanding.

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I too, feel compassion for the both the train crew and the passengers. I cannot imagine what that must be like. I never said I blamed anyone. Not every situation is a matter of blame.

However, I also feel compassion for those who lost their life as well as those they left behind. They were someone's child, brother, father, and most likely important to someone. This is, apparently, where we differ as I have seen not compassion, but contempt and worse, for those killed.

Ryan said:

Perhaps you'd be willing to take a swing at answering the question I asked upthread: If you can't blame the morons for putting themselves in the path of tons of heavy equipment that can't stop or turn, who are you going to blame? The engineer? The RR company?

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Any blame I would assign at this stage would be premature. Perhaps you'd be willing to take a swing at reading my entire post next time.

had8ley said:

I promise you the very worst feeling is being in emergency brake application at 79 mph and watching a carload of teen-agers crumble underneath the snow plow of your lead unit. The cries for help will never leave me. And if you happen to hit someone in a small town it seems nobody ever forgets, "You killed my cousins." No buddy, they committed suicide.

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Suicide implies they wanted to die. While crying for help. Makes sense to me.

jimhudson said:

Thanks Jay, think that pretty much sums it up, always take the word of someone who has been there, done that!

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So every death is intentional, every situation identical? That's certainly an interesting take on life.

daxomni said:

Any blame I would assign at this stage would be premature. Perhaps you'd be willing to take a swing at reading my entire post next time.

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I did. If not the tresspassers, who else could possibly be to blame?

jimhudson said:

Thanks Jay, think that pretty much sums it up, always take the word of someone who has been there, done that!

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So every death is intentional, every situation identical? That's certainly an interesting take on life.

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Oddly enough, I don't see Jim saying that anywhere. Perhaps you'd be willing to quit making stuff up and putting it in other people's posts?