Sleeper Cars

When I travelled by sleeper earlier this year from Toulouse up to Paris, Paris to Rome and back and again Paris to Madrid return, on each segment I shared the 3 berth or 6 berth sleeper compartments with either two or five other unknown passengers. Now I know there is not an option on Amtrak of just paying for a single berth, but I gather there is something like that available on some Canadian trains.

So my question is this..Would you prefer to have access to a horizontal night berth, at a cheaper rate and with reduced privacy, or do most folk prefer the present system of paying for their own room outright? I am interested in how important do you feel the privacy aspect is?

Tootle Pip

Sheer Luck Holmes

Years ago it was an option if I do recall correctly. But our American society is not too fond of sharing personal space. As a society Americans are very introverted compared to our counterparts across the pond. If you are familiar with it this was exemplified very well in the film "Euro Trip," where a group of American Teenagers travel to Europe and have an interesting experience on the train. I think the only thing American rail passengers would consider is the Roomettes from the old Slumbercoaches, a room designed for just one passenger. But until Americans start relaxing a little bit it's just not gonna happen.

I can tell you one thing. I would NOT share a roommete with a stranger.

Gingee, I wasn't expecting anyone to share an existing roomette accomodation...I was trying to ask if people WOULD consider sharing a slightly larger room, with say, 6 bunks, with other passengers at a reduced fare, compared to the current sleeper charge. I think battalion 51 may be right about American attitudes? In Europe, although there are luxury 1st class sleepers available, there is also a basic sleeper berth available, without all the so called 1st class meals, etc, on Amtrak. There are dinning or buffet cars where one could eat if one was in a basic sleeper, but it's not built into the fare as part of the basic sleeper cost. It seems to me that there is a case for more sleeping facilities on Amtrak long distance trains, at a cost above coach, but without all the added frills of the current sleeper "pecking order"

SLH

Actually, there has been posts on this Forum about sharing a roomette - complete strangers. To some, it doesn't seem to be such a big deal. To me, I would never consider it - basically to save the sanity of the other person, since I snore rather loudly.

I would share in a NY minute. I can sleep through anything. I stay at hostels where I have shared a room with strangers. They are dorms with bunk beds in them. And unless a violent person had weapons, the Good Lord gave me two good fists, alot of "toughness" and I have always been able to "carry my own" when it comes to protecting myself. My girlfriend and massage therapist both say, "your threshold for pain is way beyond what most people would consider normal". I even thought if I was sitting in coach someday, couldn't afford a roomette outright and the person sitting beside was in the same pridicament, I would just say, "lets talk to the conductor and share a roomette and we will split the cost."

I SO prefer the European system - instead of $75 to $100/night on the train, it's usually around $30 - no meals included, but who cares? Just get me where I'm going! One major exception: the Spanish Talgos from Paris, Zurich, and Milan may be very nice, very comfortable trains, but they are VERY expensive at around $90/person in a shared room, with no shower facilities....(which makes even less sense, since I took a Spanish sleeper in February from Madrid to the border at Hendaya/Hendaye for about $30 supplement, and had my OWN shower, as it was first class...)

I think there would be a market for hostel-like accomodations. Consider hikers and tourists, particularly the younger crowd who may want to simply sack out at night. Yes, you can sack out in coach. But it would certainly be more comfortable if you can lay out in a more horizontal position.

Just a thought!

Deimos

No, I would not share a sleeper with any stranger, for any amount.

Contrary to what some have insinuated here, this is not necessarily a case of American "hang ups." It is true that we prefer our private space (after all, private property is one of the identifying marks of America and is a reason that people come here), but rather than being some national idiosyncracy, I believe that, for most people, this is a question of personal safety and security.

In Europe, traditionally speaking, the more class-oriented society generally insured that a respectable-looking person was precisely that. If he could afford to be in a private or semi-private setting, and was dressed accordingly, he was almost always legitimate. This was true in transportation, lodgings, restaurants and other establishments. (However, in recent years, this is becoming less true in some parts of the continent, as "high class" criminals, are operating more frequently, American style.) But here, such appearances have generally been far less of a reliable indicator, particularly in recent years. That well-dressed, articulate businessman may easily turn out to be an armed assailant, a thief, a sexual predator or who knows what else. It would be akin to picking up a hitchhiker--how many here would do that in this day and age, regardless of how someone was dressed?

Since we have had our share of crime in recent decades, I would call this a prudent attitude, rather than some type of hang up or attitude that requires correction. :unsure:

I don't want anyone to get over excited or alarmed by the question, it is not about changing the way you look at your fellow traveler, but simply meant to view some of the differences between Amtrak rail travel, and the rest of the world. I actually realy enjoyed my European trips, on the way back from Rome, for example, I shared a sleeper carriage with an Algerian guy who lived in Italy, a most interesting rather drunk but well behaved French guy who was in the fashion trade, a couple of guys on the top two bunks who were eastern European, and a young French woman who was able to cross-translate between several of us. No murderers or robbers showed their hands! (this was bargain basement rail travel, the cheapest there was, not any superior class)

I suppose it is the same question as "If you would travel in coach class on an overnight train, would you like to have a horizontal berth in a larger room, instead of a seat, and pay a bit less than for your own bedroom

Tootle Pip!

Sheer Luck

I'm already planning a trip or two in Europe in a shared couchette, and the savings offered appeal to me (although I am 23... these things no doubt change as we get older).

Incidentally, if anyone wants to share a Viewliner roomette on the Crescent: WAS-TCL 28/29 Aug and TCL-NYP 5/6 Sep, give me a buzz

*j*

No, never, not ever.

But....why not rip out a few coach seats in one of the cars, make all the seats in that car fully-reclinable, and give everyone a privacy drape to draw around themselves. Think First Class transatlantic service on the airlines. That seems very do-able and could be priced between coach and first.

Wasn't there a time way back when that there were berths on American trains? I recall a conversation many years ago where a lady on a berth in the US had her safety severly compromised.

No thanks! I'll either sleep in my coach seat or get my own room.

Roomette or big room - I still wouldn't share.

Everydaymatters said:

Wasn't there a time way back when that there were berths on American trains?

Click to expand...

These were called sections. there were bulkheads about one third the width of the car on each side spaced at bed length intervals. Daytime you had two facing seats. For night, these folded out and became the bottom bunk. the upper folded down from the ceiling. curtains were set to close off the space from the aisle. Each was sold separately. This sort of accomodation is still available in many parts of the world. I have ridden such several times in Malaysia and once on Hokkaido Island in Japan. Crime in the old section cars in the US was a rarity. Each car had its own porter who was held responsible for everything in it and also normally took his job very seriously. In the Malaysia and Japan experience both, these were late night departure early morning arrival trains, so when you walked in the car, the berths were already set up.

The European style compartment system I have experienced only once, and that was not in Europe.

George

As a 4 y/o in the early 1950s, I remember traveling with my Dad in a Pullman section with an upper and lower birth from Chattanooga to St. Louis. It was very comfortable. The cars had large restrooms at one end. In the morning, men were shaving and getting ready for a day of business at their destination. There was a lot of commararderie. The Pullman attendant took good care of everyone and made sure everything was secure. I also traveled in Europe where I shared a "wagon lit" room with a stranger. In some cases, I developed a friendship. After I graduated from college in 1971, I spent 2 months traveling around Europe by train. I had a memorable experience traveling from Istanbul and Paris via second class "wagon lit" where I shared a room with a Swiss college student from Lausanne who was returning from Beruit by train (with a small portion by boat at Istanbul). We have been friends ever since. The open sections lasted on a least a couple of trains until May 1, 1971 when Amtrak started and still exist in Canada.

As Mr. Harris and iphjaxfli just pointed out, it was only in the section where something like "sharing" happened. Each facing seat sold as a separate accommodation.

Further, I think there was an unwritten code of manners that a if a "gentleman" was in a more expensvie lower and a"lady" was in the upper, the gentleman supposedly offered to swap out and give the lower to the lady,and he would take the less desirable upper. Mr. Harris can probably verify that for me. I think the "Emily Post" and "Amy Vanderbilt" etiquette books suggested this.

The revival by Amtrak of the word roomette is causing confusion. The old pre-Amtrak roomette was truly designed only for one person, or perhaps a parent and an infant.

Amtrak roomettes are, just barely in my opinion, for two people. In fact, take it from one who has spent many, many nights on the old roomettes---the "feel" is exactly the same!!

Slumbercoach rooms were caleld "single room" and "double room", not roomettes. And no sharing.

I would never share my room with anyone.

I am a private person, for the most part. And purchasing a room on a train would afford me the pleasure of being able to take in the scenery without having someone sitting next to me for the whole trip. And there are times where you can socialize, like at meal times or when you're in the lounge. But, for a mole like me, I like being able to slink into my own private train ride.

I guess its about 50/50, with those who have experienced other trains with couchettes being more in favour (favor!) than those who havent! I should perhaps have pointed out that, as in the coach seats, one is expected to remain fully dressed in a shared sleeper, just removing footwear, etc. It has surprised me that most people here seem to prefer sitting up in coach all night with strangers, than lying horizontal in a berth.

Tootle Pip

SLH

I believe the fact that the coaches are open and anyone can walk through makes people feel more comfortable.

battalion51 said:

I believe the fact that the coaches are open and anyone can walk through makes people feel more comfortable.

Click to expand...

I think this nails it right here. If you are in coach or open section sleeper, you are not trapped in a room with a stranger. This also why four berth compartments tend to be much more acceptable than two berth compartments. At least that way you are not trapped with a single stranger.

If not possible to be in a single room, regardless of name, I much prefer the open section when alone. Compartment mates can really be unpredicible.

George

Years ago, while traveling through India, there were trains which had fully open carriages, but the seats could all convert to 3 tier bunk beds. I feel something along this open style would be good for Amtrak long distance trains.

I do still strongly feel that there would be more satisfied passengers if Amtrak could offer something pitched between the rigours of coach, and the expense of current, rather elite, sleeper class.

SLH

The three high bunks also exist in China. They were oriented crosswise to the car axis so you had something like doorless and curtainless six person compartments. Curiously, in my one trip, neither these nor the berths in the compartmetns were ever made up to a seat like configuration. If you wanted to sit in the daytime, you sat on the bed. In the 3 high set up, this made the bottom berth the least desirable, as "everybody" wanted to sit on it in the daytime.

george

Look at it this way.

When we go to the diner, we can expect to be seated with strangers. That can be great fun. Or we can each consider each other to be duds. Or anywhere in between. But that is only for one meal. You can bear anything for one meal.

But here we are talking about the entire trip. Much bigger gamble. Odds are probably the same.

About sections, if you do not care for the person facing you, you have to go the entire trip tryng to not look at each other, etc. There is one really good thing to be said about a section though: the very fact that it has no amenities,no toilet, no washstand, etc, means it (at least the lower) is the BIGGEST bed on rails. It covers your ENTIRE space. Peirod. That angle is great!

A typical sleeper accomodation in Western Europe and China is roughly EUR 25 - EUR 40 / bed, in Eastern or Southern Europe EUR 10 - EUR 20 / bed, in CIS roughly EUR 15-20 /bed/night. These prices are pro passenger. A typical couchette is about half of that, in CIS and China there are sections corresponding to couchette. There is always an option to travel alone, but the price is extremely high (about 3 times) to the normal supplement and passenger always has to buy a 1st class "base" coach ticket rather the usual 2nd class.

The number of passengers being moved yearly in countries from A(rgentina) to Z(aire) in pro-bed accomodations and cochettes or sections is in millions, maybe hundreds of millions yearly. So far, in great part of the world (both very deleveloped like Sweden and not-so-developed like Mali) it is proven to work since well over a century.