Grand Central Terminal Now on the Station List

I was looking at some fares and what just happened to be above NYP in the station? NYG, which is Grand Central Terminal, yet no trains of Amtrak have stepped foot in there in 2003 (when the Spyuten Dyvel was hit by a boat, or something like that). Could trains be coming back there? Well, I don't, for the P32ACDM's have over running third rail shoes, which are for use in the ER Tunnels and Penn.

cpamtfan-Peter

Guest_cpamtfan_* said:

I was looking at some fares and what just happened to be above NYP in the station? NYG, which is Grand Central Terminal, yet no trains of Amtrak have stepped foot in there in 2003...

Click to expand...

Interesting. The location is not yet "full service", according to Amtrak's Website:

Station Services:

No Station Hours

No Ticket Office

No Quik-Trak

No Checked Baggage

No Help With Baggage

Enclosed Waiting Area

So there is a waiting room with walls and a roof. But (so far as Amtrak is concerned) nothing there to wait for.

p&sr said:

Guest_cpamtfan_* said:

I was looking at some fares and what just happened to be above NYP in the station? NYG, which is Grand Central Terminal, yet no trains of Amtrak have stepped foot in there in 2003...

Click to expand...

Interesting. The location is not yet "full service", according to Amtrak's Website:

Station Services:

No Station Hours

No Ticket Office

No Quik-Trak

No Checked Baggage

No Help With Baggage

Enclosed Waiting Area

So there is a waiting room with walls and a roof. But (so far as Amtrak is concerned) nothing there to wait for.

Click to expand...

Sounds Like Home !!!

Maybe NYG is being listed because it is a "connection" between Amtrak and those that want to take Metro North? :huh:

And I believe the P32ACDM's can operate to NYG. They did for years. (Or were those F-7's or F-8's?) Besides, the same third rail that runs to NYP also runs to NYG, and begins in CRT!

the_traveler said:

Maybe NYG is being listed because it is a "connection" between Amtrak and those that want to take Metro North? :huh:
And I believe the P32ACDM's can operate to NYG. They did for years. (Or were those F-7's or F-8's?) Besides, the same third rail that runs to NYP also runs to NYG, and begins in CRT!

Click to expand...

The LIRR third rail is different than the Metro North third rail. LIRR is the over style, and MN is the under style. By the way, the loco's that used to run into GCT were FL9's.

cpamtfan-Peter

Guest_cpamtfan_* said:

The LIRR third rail is different than the Metro North third rail. LIRR is the over style, and MN is the under style.

Click to expand...

I knew LIRR and MN were different, but Empire Service trains that went to NYG (years ago) and now go to NYP use MN south of CRT!

Empire service trains run on MNCR with third rail shoes in up position (not touching third rail)

The third rail shoes on Amtrak P32acdm are LIRR type shoes and the shoes are not lowered till approaching empire box tunnel near 42th street to go into NYP.

For Amtrak P32acdm to enter GCT they need to have shoes replaced and air system re-adjusted for NYC type third rail.

Amtrak P32acdm's are not allowed to lead into GCT due to not having a crew escape hatch in nose.

Dutchrailnut said:

Empire service trains run on MNCR with third rail shoes in up position (not touching third rail)The third rail shoes on Amtrak P32acdm are LIRR type shoes and the shoes are not lowered till approaching empire box tunnel near 42th street to go into NYP.

For Amtrak P32acdm to enter GCT they need to have shoes replaced and air system re-adjusted for NYC type third rail.

Click to expand...

Could they install two sets of shoes (one for each type of 3rd rail)? Is the voltage difference between the two significant?

ralfp said:

Dutchrailnut said:

Empire service trains run on MNCR with third rail shoes in up position (not touching third rail)The third rail shoes on Amtrak P32acdm are LIRR type shoes and the shoes are not lowered till approaching empire box tunnel near 42th street to go into NYP.

For Amtrak P32acdm to enter GCT they need to have shoes replaced and air system re-adjusted for NYC type third rail.

Click to expand...

Could they install two sets of shoes (one for each type of 3rd rail)? Is the voltage difference between the two significant?

Click to expand...

No there is no room for two sets, there are already 3 LIRR shoes on each side, MNCR is working on shoes for both types but even the manufacturer sees problems.

Next problem how to modify the 18 amtrak units with a 24 " emergency hatch and ladder.

ralfp said:

Is the voltage difference between the two significant?

Click to expand...

IIRC, the LIRR voltage is 600 Volts DC. Metro North uses 700 VDC. Just how significant a difference that is in terms of equipment needed to deal with the variance, I'm not enough of an expert to know.

AlanB said:

ralfp said:

Is the voltage difference between the two significant?

Click to expand...

IIRC, the LIRR voltage is 600 Volts DC. Metro North uses 700 VDC. Just how significant a difference that is in terms of equipment needed to deal with the variance, I'm not enough of an expert to know.

Click to expand...

Both LIRR and MNCR run at 770 volt nominal, the lowest voltage you see on the M7's is 600 volt about one mile from substations.

What does a nose escape hatch have to do with anything? Amtrak doesn't use them near as I can tell.

MattW said:

What does a nose escape hatch have to do with anything? Amtrak doesn't use them near as I can tell.

Click to expand...

correct in NYP the tunnels have walkways, in park avenue tunnel they don't, so in case of fire the unit needs the escape hatch or it will not lead in Park Avenue tunnel.

Every MNCR P32acdm has the escape hatch.

Could Amtrak lease Metro North Units? :huh:

amtrak51 said:

Could Amtrak lease Metro North Units? :huh:

Click to expand...

Sure, in theory anyone can lease anything for the right price. That said, I'm not sure that Metro North would be so inclined to lease to Amtrak, especially since Amtrak doesn't really need to lease them for any long term operations. Better to just rent a crew and an engine when needed.

Just a quick note and walk down memory lane. One of the joys( and there were many) of living in Albany in the late 70's and early 80's was taking the train down to NYC and arriving in GCT. It's wonders even when it was at its grimiest were un-ending. The first time I ever arrived there was on the overnight from Detroit - NYC in 1960 on my way to spending the summer with my grandparents in England( went over on the Queen Elizabetth; returned on the Caronia through a full summer gale in the Atlantic). The whole trip was memorable. If anyone of my vintage or older would know what train that would have been and/or what the route was( I know we crossed through Canada), I'd love to know.

Ed

The original NYC Lake Shore Limited was a New York-Detroit train, and probably a coach-and-sleeper affair. Actually, its operation as an Amtrak train did contain a period when it had a Detroit section. That ran, iirc, on the south shore of Lake Erie.

Amtrak ran a day train, so presumably NYC ran day trains and night trains, over a route that ran NORTH of Lake Erie through Canada via the Detroit/Windsor tunnel. That Amtrak train was called the Niagara Rainbow.

That is not to be confused with the more recently departed Niagara Rainbow, which was essentially an overnight frequency of the Maple Leaf

Green Maned Lion said:

The original NYC Lake Shore Limited was a New York-Detroit train, and probably a coach-and-sleeper affair. Actually, its operation as an Amtrak train did contain a period when it had a Detroit section. That ran, iirc, on the south shore of Lake Erie.
Amtrak ran a day train, so presumably NYC ran day trains and night trains, over a route that ran NORTH of Lake Erie through Canada via the Detroit/Windsor tunnel. That Amtrak train was called the Niagara Rainbow.

That is not to be confused with the more recently departed Niagara Rainbow, which was essentially an overnight frequency of the Maple Leaf

Click to expand...

Thanks. I know the train I took went through the tunnel so it must have been the NYC Lake Shore Linited. I know it left from the beloved Michigan Central terminal. One of the funny things I remember( I'm pretty sure it was this trip), my parents couldn't book a full bedroon suite( I have no idea what the terminology was) so they booked two adjoining rooms with a sliding partition. The funny thing( at least to my sister and I -- we were 8 & 9) was that when we pulled the partition back the toilets were side by side; cheek by jowl. We all thought that was hilarious.

I took the Amtrak Niagara Rainbow in 1974 just after I was married over the Thanksgiving holiday to NYC. Once we hit New York state and then all the college towns along the way it was standing room only all the way into NYC. You could barely leave your seat to go to the bathroom for fear of losing it. I remember the train as having the most motley assortment of cars. We barely made it back because there was a huge snow storm over the Thanksgiving weekend and while Amtrak was running fine there was so much snow that the subway from Brooklyn to GCT kept losing traction until we got in the tunnels.

Ed

Today's NARP news says that Amtrak Empire trains will run out of GCT the weekends of October 18 and 25. The 3 long-distance trains will detour.

What track work are they doing? Switch work on the empire connection?

Guest said:

Today's NARP news says that Amtrak Empire trains will run out of GCT the weekends of October 18 and 25. The 3 long-distance trains will detour.
What track work are they doing? Switch work on the empire connection?

Click to expand...

Yes , don't know if its NYP end or MN end.

The Empire service trains will be towed in by MNCR Genesis (entire consist) from Croton to GCT

the Long distance trains will go via CP12/MottHaven . Harlem line /CP212 to New Haven line to New Rochelle where a Amtrak electric couples to rear end and pulls train backwards to NYP.

outbound same in reverse.