Empire Builder-Sleepers sold out, chances of adding another car?

So I am about to take my first Empire Builder adventure from Chicago all the way to Emeryville, about 6 weeks from today.

However as this is a return trip from the midwest, I have a limited time frame in which to travel, and the sleeper cars are all sold out, and have been for the past week, what is the possibility that they will add another car to the train?

I think that they may have just done this with the CZ because when I checked on Tuesday, roomettes were sold out, and Weds I logged in and got one at the cheapest price. . .but maybe that is just wishful thinking on my part.

I can coach it if I have to, and have thought about maybe spending one night in Havre, MT, which would give me the chance to shower in the middle of the trip--I have no problem sleeping in coach--its the non showering, and this trip is longer than the CZ route. It appears that I can get a room under $80 there. . .but not sure how close to station, and not sure if there are buses and cabs and such.

Thanx in advance

It's a very slim chance that it will add a car to its consist due to lack of availability of cars across US.

However, don't give up to keep trying daily in case someone is cancelling his/her trip. Also, I believe that you can contact its reservation center to put you on a waiting list.

I think that slim might be an overstatement of the possibility. There basically has to be an expectation of a certain number of additional sleeper passengers for many days for an additional car to be added.

Also keep in mind, that the sleepers may not be sold out for the entire route. It's possible that they're only sold out for a portion.

As sechs said, the sleepers may be sold out for the entire journey, but they may be available for a portion of the journey. Example: It may be sold out from CHI to PDX, but it may be available from MSP to Havre, or it may be available from CHI-SEA (because it's a different "train") and thus it would be available from CHI-SPK!

And keep checking every day. If someone were to cancel, that room would reenter the inventory AT THE PRICE PAID AT THAT TIME! So it may be possible to find a room at the low bucket fare! (You could also try for an onboard upgrade, if available!)

Aloha

The last 2 posts have me wondering about 2 things.

1. What would Amtrak use as a deciding factor to add a car or cars to a train?
   
2. How would someone find out if a room was available for part of a multi-night trip?
   

Mahalo

Eric

Ty all.

I did find a roomette avail from MPS to SEA/SPK, and then PDX for more money. It was very tricky, and it appears that to do this I will have to purchase this leg by itself with all my b4 and after travel purchased separately--if I put it all together with the "Multi City" page, there are still no roomettes available. Perhaps if I call, it will be easier, and less expensive as well.

I'm still x-ing my fingers that one will pop up from CHI all the way to PDX--one of the best things is not having to stand in those huge winding lines at Chicago Union Station and hoping that you are in fact in the correct line The lounge is kinda nice too.

I am also going to call and see about being put on a waiting list, who knows, maybe if they have one, and it gets to 5 people on the list, they will add a car

kashed said:

I am also going to call and see about being put on a waiting list, who knows, maybe if they have one, and it gets to 5 people on the list, they will add a car

Click to expand...

I suspect that it's highly unlikely that Amtrak will add a sleeper. First off, simply because they don't have all that many extra sleepers just sitting around. Then consider that they now have to find another crew member to work the sleeper, and they may have to increase the dining car staff to handle the extra passenger load.

Finally you need to consider that 5 rooms out of 19 hardly makes it worth Amtrak's while to add a sleeper. Maybe if they were approaching 12 or 13 rooms sold it might start to make some sense, but then you still have to consider the flip side. That being, can they sell rooms in that sleeper on its return journey? The car still has to return back, and with the extra crew too. So if they can't sell any of its rooms on the return, now once again the numbers don't add up unless maybe you can sell out the car westbound and still sell at least a few rooms eastbound.

kashed said:

I think that they may have just done this with the CZ because when I checked on Tuesday, roomettes were sold out, and Weds I logged in and got one at the cheapest price. . .but maybe that is just wishful thinking on my part.

Click to expand...

No, they didn't add another car. You just lucked out, and not only caught a cancellation, you caught the cancellation of a rare lowest rate ("bucket") roomette. You were able to reserve that roomette, still at its original lowest bucket rate.

As long as your luck continues, IMHO, your only hope is to now catch another cancellation for your return trip.

AlanB said:

kashed said:

I am also going to call and see about being put on a waiting list, who knows, maybe if they have one, and it gets to 5 people on the list, they will add a car

Click to expand...

I suspect that it's highly unlikely that Amtrak will add a sleeper. First off, simply because they don't have all that many extra sleepers just sitting around. Then consider that they now have to find another crew member to work the sleeper, and they may have to increase the dining car staff to handle the extra passenger load.

Finally you need to consider that 5 rooms out of 19 hardly makes it worth Amtrak's while to add a sleeper. Maybe if they were approaching 12 or 13 rooms sold it might start to make some sense, but then you still have to consider the flip side. That being, can they sell rooms in that sleeper on its return journey? The car still has to return back, and with the extra crew too. So if they can't sell any of its rooms on the return, now once again the numbers don't add up unless maybe you can sell out the car westbound and still sell at least a few rooms eastbound.

Click to expand...

Allen,

I sure wish there was some way to really know exactly how many extra passengers are turned away due to lack of space. It almost has to be rather high as so many show no rooms when you get anywhere near the date, and in some cases way out! There is no real feel for what the demand is since they are running very shortened trains as the norm and so the passenger load is automatically limited which can make it appear there isn't much demand.

Larry H. said:

AlanB said:

kashed said:

I am also going to call and see about being put on a waiting list, who knows, maybe if they have one, and it gets to 5 people on the list, they will add a car

Click to expand...

I suspect that it's highly unlikely that Amtrak will add a sleeper. First off, simply because they don't have all that many extra sleepers just sitting around. Then consider that they now have to find another crew member to work the sleeper, and they may have to increase the dining car staff to handle the extra passenger load.

Finally you need to consider that 5 rooms out of 19 hardly makes it worth Amtrak's while to add a sleeper. Maybe if they were approaching 12 or 13 rooms sold it might start to make some sense, but then you still have to consider the flip side. That being, can they sell rooms in that sleeper on its return journey? The car still has to return back, and with the extra crew too. So if they can't sell any of its rooms on the return, now once again the numbers don't add up unless maybe you can sell out the car westbound and still sell at least a few rooms eastbound.

Click to expand...

Allen,

I sure wish there was some way to really know exactly how many extra passengers are turned away due to lack of space. It almost has to be rather high as so many show no rooms when you get anywhere near the date, and in some cases way out! There is no real feel for what the demand is since they are running very shortened trains as the norm and so the passenger load is automatically limited which can make it appear there isn't much demand.

Click to expand...

It's not only that they don't want to add more cars, it's also that they CAN'T add cars - because they DON'T HAVE ANY EXTRA CARS TO ADD! There are VERY few extra coaches or sleepers available. Otherwise, with the increase of passengers, they would have added more cars to every train, and you would see every train being 15-20 cars long!

the_traveler said:

Larry H. said:

AlanB said:

kashed said:

I am also going to call and see about being put on a waiting list, who knows, maybe if they have one, and it gets to 5 people on the list, they will add a car

Click to expand...

I suspect that it's highly unlikely that Amtrak will add a sleeper. First off, simply because they don't have all that many extra sleepers just sitting around. Then consider that they now have to find another crew member to work the sleeper, and they may have to increase the dining car staff to handle the extra passenger load.

Finally you need to consider that 5 rooms out of 19 hardly makes it worth Amtrak's while to add a sleeper. Maybe if they were approaching 12 or 13 rooms sold it might start to make some sense, but then you still have to consider the flip side. That being, can they sell rooms in that sleeper on its return journey? The car still has to return back, and with the extra crew too. So if they can't sell any of its rooms on the return, now once again the numbers don't add up unless maybe you can sell out the car westbound and still sell at least a few rooms eastbound.

Click to expand...

Allen,

I sure wish there was some way to really know exactly how many extra passengers are turned away due to lack of space. It almost has to be rather high as so many show no rooms when you get anywhere near the date, and in some cases way out! There is no real feel for what the demand is since they are running very shortened trains as the norm and so the passenger load is automatically limited which can make it appear there isn't much demand.

Click to expand...

It's not only that they don't want to add more cars, it's also that they CAN'T add cars - because they DON'T HAVE ANY EXTRA CARS TO ADD! There are VERY few extra coaches or sleepers available. Otherwise, with the increase of passengers, they would have added more cars to every train, and you would see every train being 15-20 cars long!

Click to expand...

which means more engines that they don't have to get that train over the road.

Amtrak is almost always sold out in sleepers on the long hauls by trip time, I can't remember the last time I saw an empty sleeper on the entire trip.

Bob

access bob said:

the_traveler said:

It's not only that they don't want to add more cars, it's also that they CAN'T add cars - because they DON'T HAVE ANY EXTRA CARS TO ADD! There are VERY few extra coaches or sleepers available. Otherwise, with the increase of passengers, they would have added more cars to every train, and you would see every train being 15-20 cars long!

Click to expand...

which means more engines that they don't have to get that train over the road.

Amtrak is almost always sold out in sleepers on the long hauls by trip time, I can't remember the last time I saw an empty sleeper on the entire trip.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Amtrak has plenty of spare engines. It's just rolling stock that's in extremely short supply.

AlanB said:

Finally you need to consider that 5 rooms out of 19 hardly makes it worth Amtrak's while to add a sleeper. Maybe if they were approaching 12 or 13 rooms sold it might start to make some sense, ...

Click to expand...

But Amtrak will never know if they've "sold" five or twelve or eighteen extra rooms, because they don't overbook. Once the train's regular consist is sold out, their only way of tracking additional interest is through people who call and ask to be put on the waiting list. I'm sure that number is far smaller than the number of rooms they would sell outright if the website never returned "sold out".

It'd be nice if Amtrak had some way of tracking interest on their website. "We're sorry, but this option is sold out. While we wish we could add another car to this train, our budget doesn't allow us to purchase more cars. Our budget is determined by Congress. Please write your senators and representative and ask them to support Amtrak. Also, to help us track each train's potential ridership, please click [here] if you would have bought this ticket at [price], and weren't just trying to see if the room was available for using your AGR points "

wayman said:

"... if you would have bought this ticket at [price], and weren't just trying to see if the room was available for using your AGR points "

Click to expand...

You mean there another reason to get a roomette or bedroom?

All this talk about being sold out makes me think of the time my husband (boyfriend then) and I called to make a reservation on our rocky "Rocket" from Peoria to Chicago. They laughed when my husband asked if we needed reservations. No we did not. It was the ending of the Rocket to Chicago. Sure wish it was back. The restaurant that use to be the train station has become a few things and always failed. It recently failed again and now it is sitting there again.

I was on the Builder from SEA to CHI that started the run on the 4th.

The sleepers were all sold out- a passenger in coach with me managed to get a roomette in the transitional somewhere in Montana before Minot.

Coaches were full (and I mean FULL) from Minot onto the Dells. I heard a couple of the attendants yelping the word "overbooking" with the conductor.

The whole trip was beyond chaotic- we apparently forgot to let off an elderly couple in Milwuakee and they had to stay with us all the way back to Chicago to get on another train (the Hiawathan?) back... The problem was (IMHO) was that a lot of Euro Backpackers got on at the Dells, and suddenly the language barrier cropped up when it came to 'smoking stops' while we were about an hour and a half behind.

wayman said:

I'm pretty sure Amtrak has plenty of spare engines. It's just rolling stock that's in extremely short supply.

Click to expand...

Plenty of spare diesels, yes. The catenary and dual mode third-rail + diesels are well matched to the current schedule.