Moving long-distance with Amtrak

I'll be moving from Philadelphia to Las Vegas later this summer. Having just gotten back from the northwest, it's now "scramble to clean and pack" time! It's also "figure out moving logistics" time.

There's one given: I have to drive my car out there given that I have two cats. Also, my new employer is paying for gas and lodging, so this is astoundingly cheap!

However, I'm sure I'll want to take more things with me than can fit in the back of my Subaru Outback and in a rooftop carrier. (The cats will take the entire back seat, and I'm hoping to have a passenger drive out with me taking up the front.)

That leaves the following options for moving additional stuff:

* rent a U-Haul trailer one-way: $1,116 ($165 for a hitch plus $951 for the 8'x4'8"x5'4" trailer (their smallest))

* fill a PODS pod and have them ship it out there: $4,332 (!!!!!)

* hire movers: haven't priced it, but can't imagine it's less than $3,000 even for a fairly small amount of stuff

* rent a U-Haul truck and car-tower: $2,697 ($2,250 for a 10' truck and $447 for a car trailer), and I don't think this would be comfortable for the cats and requires driving alone

Or... maybe...

* Amtrak!

I could drive out with the cats and as much stuff (the valuables, the breakables) as fits in my car. I'd leave the apartment all clean, with several large boxes packed and ready to go. I'd take Greyhound (Las Vegas to Winslow), SWC-CL-Reg (Winslow-PHL). I'd get a friend to drive everything (and me) from my house to PHL. And then I can check three 50-lb 3'x3'x3' items free and another three for $10/each. That's like the full capacity of a U-Haul trailer for $30. Fare, both ways, with AAA discount: $650. No additional lodging costs (sleeping in coach is ok by me, really), decent food, and Amtrak, what's not to like?

The catch is... the nearest stations to Las Vegas that I can check them through to are Flagstaff, AZ, or Los Angeles.

Now, I'm not sure it's a bad catch... because a "local" U-Haul trailer rental in Las Vegas can be done for $19 (plus the $165 hitch I'll need, but that's a useful investment rather than a "rental cost"), and a friend can rent the trailer, drive to Flagstaff or LA, meet me, and we drive back together. That negates the catch that the SWC's time into Flagstaff is scheduled for about 9pm, well after I'd have any chance to rent a vehicle there, or any other logistics of that nature: my moving vehicle would already be waiting for me at the station where and when my checked baggage is unloaded. For a trailer, there's no "mileage limit" from U-Haul (how would they ever know? tire wear?), just by-the-24hr-period. So that's far, far cheaper than truck rental. (LA is equivalent, basically, just a higher Amtrak fare. But maybe worth it, for going the distance on the SWC?)

All-in-all, it *looks* like I can take Amtrak round-trip and bring about 162-cubic-feet/300-pounds of baggage from my home in Philadelphia to my home in Las Vegas for about $865 plus gas LV-FLG round-trip, or a bit more if I choose LA over FLG. No lodging costs, dining car food costs only, tons of AGR, and lots of fun. If I'm lucky, I can convince another Amtrak/AGR friend in LV he wants to join me and share a roomette... not likely, but possible; not necessary, but a nice bonus.

My big question: am I overlooking something important, with regards to Amtrak's baggage policy, the way checked baggage works, the logistics of checked bags at PHL or FLG or LAX, etc. A secondary question, is one of Flagstaff or Los Angeles preferable--for logistics reasons--over the other? Or would my only considerations be railfare cost plus theoretical additional hassle of driving to LA over FLG, weighed against coolness of riding the SWC end-to-end?

Thanks!

Personally I would chose FLG over LAX.

The station in FLG is small(ish), and is located on Route 66 and within a few miles of getting directly on I-40. FLG is a semi-small city and easily drivable. Also, you won't have to drive the LA freeways or the city traffic in LA. It would be MUCH less of a hassle driving a trailer in FLG than in LA (I think)!

Can I ask, why go through all the hassle of making a return trip via train and back, when you can just ship the stuff directly using Amtrak Express and pick it up in Flagstaff or LA? Obviously if you're looking for an excuse to ride the rails, I understand that, but if you're looking for the quickest, cheapest and easiest way, I'd just drop all your stuff off with Amtrak Express and meet it in Flagstaff.

rnizlek said:

Can I ask, why go through all the hassle of making a return trip via train and back, when you can just ship the stuff directly using Amtrak Express and pick it up in Flagstaff or LA? Obviously if you're looking for an excuse to ride the rails, I understand that, but if you're looking for the quickest, cheapest and easiest way, I'd just drop all your stuff off with Amtrak Express and meet it in Flagstaff.

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Good point, and one I haven't priced out yet. You're talking about this service, right? I looked at that briefly, then forgot about it. I have to call them to get a quote, and I'm assuming it's significantly more than "first three items free, next three $10/each", though it might not be anywhere near round-trip fare, and certainly isn't "me spending seven days on trains" (not that that's all bad...). So it might turn out to be a Very Good Deal Indeed.

I think the other reason I discounted it is that odds are, some not-me person would then be bringing everything from my house to PHL and shipping it to me (already out there), since the other option is for me to ship it before I've left, after which my stuff sits in FLG for a week or so waiting for me to get to LV (drop off cats) and then head down to FLG with a trailer. I suppose that can't actually be a problem, though--they must be used to different people dropping off and picking up shipments, otherwise they wouldn't offer the service as something distinct from checked baggage. Duh. I do need to price it out, certainly. Thanks for the reminder.

I feel obligated to point out the lack of Giordano's as a major drawback to Amtrak Express :lol:

wayman said:

Now, I'm not sure it's a bad catch... because a "local" U-Haul trailer rental in Las Vegas can be done for $19 (plus the $165 hitch I'll need, but that's a useful investment rather than a "rental cost"), and a friend can rent the trailer, drive to Flagstaff or LA, meet me, and we drive back together. That negates the catch that the SWC's time into Flagstaff is scheduled for about 9pm, well after I'd have any chance to rent a vehicle there, or any other logistics of that nature: my moving vehicle would already be waiting for me at the station where and when my checked baggage is unloaded. For a trailer, there's no "mileage limit" from U-Haul (how would they ever know? tire wear?), just by-the-24hr-period. So that's far, far cheaper than truck rental. (LA is equivalent, basically, just a higher Amtrak fare. But maybe worth it, for going the distance on the SWC?)

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Sometimes rental contracts limit what states you can take a rental vehicle to; I don't know the specifics of local U-Haul rentals. If some driver behind you experiences sigificant difficulty in operating their brakes, you might end up in a situation where U-Haul would find out where their trailer had been.

I believe the trailers used on big rigs often have devices on a wheel that measure the mileage the trailer has traveled, though U-Haul may very well be too cheap to bother with such devices.

Have you considered moving your automobile by freight railroad? Would you take an Auto Train if Amtrak had one along your route?

I wonder if renting a larger vehicle would end up costing less than the $165 hitch. Sure, if you go with the hitch you get to keep it, but not having a trailer would make the driving easier, and some people do seem concerned about the extra wear and tear on their automobile from towing a trailer.

wayman said:

...and one I haven't priced out yet. You're talking about this service, right? I looked at that briefly, then forgot about it. I have to call them to get a quote...

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Yup, that's the service.

I've been told by Amtrak customer service that we can expect online price quotes in about a year as they convert to electronic waybills, but until then, yes, you'll need to call.

It's far cheaper than UPS or FedEx (even UPS or FedEx Ground) but, when I last checked it, not quite as cheap as USPS Parcel Post. USPS Parcel Post, however, will not ship any boxes over 70lbs, which may be a limiting factor for you.

Joel N. Weber II said:

Sometimes rental contracts limit what states you can take a rental vehicle to; I don't know the specifics of local U-Haul rentals. If some driver behind you experiences sigificant difficulty in operating their brakes, you might end up in a situation where U-Haul would find out where their trailer had been.

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True, I have no idea what U-Haul's actual contract says. Just their basic pricing as given on the website.

Joel N. Weber II said:

Have you considered moving your automobile by freight railroad? Would you take an Auto Train if Amtrak had one along your route?

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I haven't considered freight railroad--I had no idea they dealt with individual people as freight shippers. They do that?

I'd consider taking an Auto Train, if one existed, but the logistics of that--the whole loading and unloading facilities--just make that impractical as a concept. I'd never have thought of it if you hadn't asked.

Unfortunately, neither of these would work in my case because of the cats. Amtrak doesn't allow pets, even in bedrooms. (Airlines do ship pets, but wow, I would never subject any animal to a cargo hold on an aircraft. And a baggage car on a train would be out of the question, given that they'd have no one tending to their food and water, nor any way to have a litter box, for multiple days.) Riding in a car is stressful enough for them! And there they get to have stretch breaks every few hours where I pull over, let them out, play with them a bit, make sure they've got water, etc.

Joel N. Weber II said:

I wonder if renting a larger vehicle would end up costing less than the $165 hitch. Sure, if you go with the hitch you get to keep it, but not having a trailer would make the driving easier, and some people do seem concerned about the extra wear and tear on their automobile from towing a trailer.

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Well, a local U-Haul truck rental would be about $30/24-hours, but at $0.59/mile that adds up to over $300 LV-FLG-LV. That's not counting gas (neither were estimates with the car-and-trailer; I'm assuming they're equivalent). I haven't priced renting, say, a passenger van from Enterprise and taking out the seats; that might be cheaper.

I don't know much about the "wear and tear" of towing a trailer. But I would assume any such effects are minimal if it's "just" 500 miles round-trip, with no stops on the way (being five hours in each direction). Is it really more of a concern than I'm thinking?

jackal said:

It's far cheaper than UPS or FedEx (even UPS or FedEx Ground) but, when I last checked it, not quite as cheap as USPS Parcel Post. USPS Parcel Post, however, will not ship any boxes over 70lbs, which may be a limiting factor for you.

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Depends where you're shipping to. Usually Parcel Post is more than FedEx Ground, at least when shipping on a FedEx account (otherwise they mark up the rates, but accounts are free and take two seconds to get). The only time they're not is: 1) Lightweight packages (<10 lbs) going to a residence or to an area that's assessed a rural charge by FedEx. UPS has the same rates, but won't give them to you unless you get a daily pickup, which costs money. Also they just raised the postage rates.

I'd say Amtrak Express is the way to go - but let me know what you get as a quote - I'd be very interested. I was planning on doing a similar thing with my stuff at the end of the year, but my planned move was canceled when I landed a decent job offer in Burlington.

wayman said:

I haven't considered freight railroad--I had no idea they dealt with individual people as freight shippers. They do that?

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It is most certainly possible to pay a company to move an automobile from point A to point B on some larger vehicle. I'm pretty sure in some cases the automobile can end up on a train. I know when I cared about this particular problem many years ago, some companies insisted they could only provide service between major terminals, and I ended up using some small company out of New Hampshire that basically had a jumbo sized pickup truck (except with a fifth wheel instead of a pickup bed, and I think this may have been larger than a 1 ton model) with a trailer that could accomodate about three automobiles.

I guess my wording was sloppy; I suspect you have to deal with an intermediary and not the freight railroad directly.

wayman said:

Unfortunately, neither of these would work in my case because of the cats. Amtrak doesn't allow pets, even in bedrooms. (Airlines do ship pets, but wow, I would never subject any animal to a cargo hold on an aircraft. And a baggage car on a train would be out of the question, given that they'd have no one tending to their food and water, nor any way to have a litter box, for multiple days.) Riding in a car is stressful enough for them! And there they get to have stretch breaks every few hours where I pull over, let them out, play with them a bit, make sure they've got water, etc.

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I should have read your initial post more carefully.

wayman said:

Well, a local U-Haul truck rental would be about $30/24-hours, but at $0.59/mile that adds up to over $300 LV-FLG-LV. That's not counting gas (neither were estimates with the car-and-trailer; I'm assuming they're equivalent). I haven't priced renting, say, a passenger van from Enterprise and taking out the seats; that might be cheaper.

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I think I can rent a Zipcar pickup truck that lives near me for about $70/day. That includes 180 miles. Additional miles are $.35 each. But that also includes the fuel. (At least, I think it's $.35. Additional miles on premium cars like BMWs are $.45 each, so the pickup might be $.45 too.)

A pickup truck with an open bed is not ideal for your move, and Zipcar probably isn't the right rental company in your situation, but this still seems like potentially useful data on the ballpark of what this might cost. The right vehicle for your move should cost about the same as a pickup truck, I would think.

wayman said:

I don't know much about the "wear and tear" of towing a trailer. But I would assume any such effects are minimal if it's "just" 500 miles round-trip, with no stops on the way (being five hours in each direction). Is it really more of a concern than I'm thinking?

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If you're investing in a trailer hitch, it's not ``just'' 500 miles in your long term plan.

I don't really know enough to judge this one way or another. I think some people worry about it a lot, and some don't worry about it at all. I guess reading the owner's manual and seeing what its attitude towards towing is and making sure you follow all the weight restrictions is probably a safe enough bet, though.

I have this recollection that in some areas of the desert in the southwest that I traveled across in my childhood, there are signs advising against running the air conditioning to reduce the risk of overheating the engine. My knowlege of the geography there is not very fine grained to know whether your particular trip runs into similar issues. If you were going to be in an area where your car's engine's cooling system was going to be strained without the trailer, the additional load of the trailer might be a really bad thing. On the other hand, I'm also reminded that I know someone who thinks that running the heater in this situation is a good idea. (You would sweat even more, but basically, the heater can pull some heat away from the engine and into the passenger compartment, in addition to whatever the radiator manages to do.)

I also remember hearing about a friend's experiences with getting a hitch installed on a car (a minivan, possibly a Ford, I think) involving somewhat more effort than this friend wanted to go through, because the first hitch seller wasn't competent to either do an installation or find the right part. If you know you have a competent mechanic who can take care of this, maybe that's not an issue, though. Or maybe in your case all you need to do is slide the hitch into a hitch reciever that's already present, and secure it however it needs to be secured. (I used to own a vehicle with such a hitch reciever, but never had the hitch.)

Joel N. Weber II said:

If you're investing in a trailer hitch, it's not ``just'' 500 miles in your long term plan.
I don't really know enough to judge this one way or another. I think some people worry about it a lot, and some don't worry about it at all. I guess reading the owner's manual and seeing what its attitude towards towing is and making sure you follow all the weight restrictions is probably a safe enough bet, though.

I have this recollection that in some areas of the desert in the southwest that I traveled across in my childhood, there are signs advising against running the air conditioning to reduce the risk of overheating the engine. My knowlege of the geography there is not very fine grained to know whether your particular trip runs into similar issues. If you were going to be in an area where your car's engine's cooling system was going to be strained without the trailer, the additional load of the trailer might be a really bad thing. On the other hand, I'm also reminded that I know someone who thinks that running the heater in this situation is a good idea. (You would sweat even more, but basically, the heater can pull some heat away from the engine and into the passenger compartment, in addition to whatever the radiator manages to do.)

I also remember hearing about a friend's experiences with getting a hitch installed on a car (a minivan, possibly a Ford, I think) involving somewhat more effort than this friend wanted to go through, because the first hitch seller wasn't competent to either do an installation or find the right part. If you know you have a competent mechanic who can take care of this, maybe that's not an issue, though. Or maybe in your case all you need to do is slide the hitch into a hitch reciever that's already present, and secure it however it needs to be secured. (I used to own a vehicle with such a hitch reciever, but never had the hitch.)

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I agree with Joel, as far as the hitch. If you find somebody competent, get a receiver hitch installed. You can then use it for other things as well, such as a bike rack (that's what I mostly use mine for).

If you're just going to be pulling a small trailer without a lot of weight, you have the load balanced properly, and you're not going through any serious mountains, you should be okay pulling it with a car. Just be careful not to overdo it with Interstate speeds, steep hills, etc.

Sort of off the subject, but mentioned earlier, wouldn't it be great if Amtrak offered the auto-train on all of their long distance routes? I would love to have my own car when I reached my destination. But how much more does that cost? I suppose it would still be cheaper to rent a car at the other end if I'm there for a week or less.

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Tuba-Iowa

A tuba is a terrible thing to waste.

rnizlek said:

jackal said:

It's far cheaper than UPS or FedEx (even UPS or FedEx Ground) but, when I last checked it, not quite as cheap as USPS Parcel Post. USPS Parcel Post, however, will not ship any boxes over 70lbs, which may be a limiting factor for you.

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Depends where you're shipping to. Usually Parcel Post is more than FedEx Ground, at least when shipping on a FedEx account (otherwise they mark up the rates, but accounts are free and take two seconds to get). The only time they're not is: 1) Lightweight packages (<10 lbs) going to a residence or to an area that's assessed a rural charge by FedEx. UPS has the same rates, but won't give them to you unless you get a daily pickup, which costs money. Also they just raised the postage rates.

I'd say Amtrak Express is the way to go - but let me know what you get as a quote - I'd be very interested. I was planning on doing a similar thing with my stuff at the end of the year, but my planned move was canceled when I landed a decent job offer in Burlington.

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It'll be nice when Amtrak Express gets their online shipping quote feature online, since I can only go off of the one time I've ever seen a price quote for them, and that was in an article in (IIRC) the Sacramento Bee about shipping from SAC to somewhere. I think I did a price quote for the same distance using UPS Ground and USPS Parcel Post at the time and found that Parcel Post was the cheapest of the bunch (UPS Ground may have been included in the article--my memory is fuzzy). I seem to remember remarking in a thread here about my surprise at that, since shipping by rail is more cost-efficient per given unit of weight than shipping by truck, which is what Parcel Post uses. (UPS Ground uses rail for >700 mi shipping distances).

I did use my UPS account for the UPS Ground price quote, but I'm not a high-volume shipper and I have no idea if the rates were discounted any. (I do have my FedEx account tied to a business American Express, which gets me a further 5% off, but I prefer to use UPS Ground because they ship by rail, which is cooler and more satisfying to me , and so never really bother to check FedEx, although FedEx Ground can sometimes be cheaper than UPS Ground (again, surprising given their use of trucks).

Parcel Post may be more expensive than Amtrak for trips of a different length than the one quoted in the article. I'd have to call Amtrak Express to test, and I'm never in a mood to make a phone call when they're open.

rnizlek said:

I'd say Amtrak Express is the way to go - but let me know what you get as a quote - I'd be very interested. I was planning on doing a similar thing with my stuff at the end of the year, but my planned move was canceled when I landed a decent job offer in Burlington.

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I just called Amtrak Express (800-377-6914) and had an extremely helpful and efficient customer service experience talking to Linda, who gave me the following quotes:

First, basic rules:

* nothing with a motor, no furniture, no weapons, no appliances, some further restrictions on items too

* maximum dimensions 3' x 3' x 3' and 50 pounds per item

* maximum of 500 pounds total weight allowed per shipper per day

* bicycles are the one exception to the size restriction

* items must be packaged in heavy cardboard boxes (your standard U-Haul moving boxes) or suitcases -- no plastic containers

* bicycles must be packaged in a bicycle carton (available from Amtrak for $15 or from bicycle stores)

PHL-LYH (Lynchburg, VA)

* $34 for up to 100 pounds

* $0.32 for each additional pound

PHL-FLG (Flagstaff, AZ)

* $67 for up to 100 pounds

* $0.57 for each additional pound

Shipments are not guaranteed to ship same-day as drop-off. They ship on a space-available basis (as checked-baggage has priority, obviously). Upon delivery, addressed recipient will be telephoned and has 48 hours to pick up shipment. It's possible to list multiple recipients, if you're not sure who might be available to pick up the shipment since you don't know what day it will arrive. Generally, shipments go out within at most three days, but it's not guaranteed since it is space-available. That's just generally the case.

Doing some quick comparison numbers...

Shipping 400 pounds by Amtrak Express PHL-LYH costs a flat $130.

As a passenger PHL-LYH, low-bucket fare is something like $72 and high-bucket is something like $140. As a passenger, I could take 400 pounds myself (two carry-ons, three free checked, three additional checked for $10/each), for a total one-way cost of $102-$170.

And I'm pretty sure I could not ship 400 pounds of books for anything near as low as $130 via USPS, UPS, or FedEx.

Shipping 400 pounds by Amtrak Express PHL-FLG costs a flat $238.

As a passenger PHL-FLG, fares seem to range from roughly $280-$360 one-way.

So, if you're accompanying your stuff on a one-way move, Amtrak Express is pretty close to railfare. But if you're not actually moving at that moment, it's definitely cheaper than a round-trip ticket and obviously saves you a lot of time (at the expense of not having a guaranteed delivery date). And I'm sure it's far cheaper than other shipping alternatives.

Also, I trust Amtrak far more than the others. And I do not trust UPS or USPS for shipping large boxes or items of value at all--I've personally experienced too many lost packages to ever use either of them again, given the choice, for such shipments. FedEx is great for small critical items (eg, passport) but pretty expensive for anything of significant weight.

All in all, Amtrak Express looks like a real winner!

Just for comparison purposes, I checked out shipping 400 pounds PHL-LYH and PHL-FLG using USPS, UPS, and FedEx. (This is assuming 5 70-lb boxes and 1 50-lb box--the USPS will not take anything more than 70 lbs.)

If all 400 pounds are truly books, you can ship them Media Mail for a total cost of $151.28. The price is the same for both LYH and FLG.

If the items do not qualify for the Media Mail rate, the total price would be $154.35 to LYH and $300.92 to FLG.

For the heck of it, I went ahead and did FedEx and UPS, too. I used the same 5x70lb + 1x50lb box calculation.

FedEx Ground came out to $125.45 to LYH and $286.21 to FLG with my FedEx account (that may include the 5% Amex OPEN discount, though I'm not sure if the discount applies to Ground). UPS came out to $125.52 to LYH and $291.48 to FLG.

Since UPS contracts with railroads (BNSF and NS, in this case) and has railroad hubs at Newark, NJ and Vernon, CA (south of downtown L.A.), I priced the same 400-lb shipment between those two points (Newark and Vernon) to maximize the reliance on railroads and minimize the reliance on trucks. Interestingly, UPS prices that at $278.76, and FedEx is $286.21 (including the discount, if it is in there). So, by avoiding the truck haul from PHL to NWK and LAX to FLG, UPS's price goes down $12.72 and then beats FedEx's price--but not by much! Interesting...

Since your car is a Scoobie, I'd disregard most of the issues related to wear and tear on it. They are incredibly rugged cars. Me and my friend Chris took a clapped out one from his dads ranch and spent two days trying to kill the danged thing. We even managed to start it after drowning it. We ended up killing it by turning it into a really large molotov cocktail. Anyway, they are heavily rated for towing.

Green Maned Lion said:

We even managed to start it after drowning it.

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Isn't that bad for the quality of the water wherever you submerged it, in that some oil, battery acid, etc might end up in the body of water in question?

Possibly. At the time it hadn't occurred to me. I was 17 or so and had a drinking problem, among other things.