Acela

Will be in NYC and DC this summer, NYC is pretty packed and one less day, I have never ridden Acela and will not pay to take it from NYC to DC because of the cost, opting for the Carolinian instead since there's 4 of us. If I have some extra tme, what would be a nice "newbie" trip on Acela that won't cost an arm and a leg out of DC? Want to get the flavor of "high speed" but don't want to abandon my girlfriend and her daughters for a whole day. Also, I never pay attention to "specials" on AGR with Acela since I don't live anywhere near it, are there some "double point" promo's or anything like that during the summer? Thanks!

Al

Al,

So far no promos are up on the AGR page for Acela, but even when they are, they never include a short trip. Almost everything requires a ride between certain city pairs. Now if they run a double point promo for AGR overall, then you would get that. But I sure wouldn't hold my breath for that kind of a promo during the peak summer months.

Turning to an actual ride, the shortest and best ride you can do would be Washington to BWI Airport. The price could run anywhere from around $30 to $50 bucks for that ride, depending on how sold out the train is. If you can plan it in advance, that would help to keep the costs down.

That's a 20 minute trip where I believe you'll manage to get to 135 MPH for a brief period. You can then either catch another Acela back to DC, a Regional, or if you really want to save the money at that point, you can also ride a MARC commuter train back. The latter will take longer, since it will make several stops along the way.

But all in all, this could probably be done in about an hour and a half to two hours max, depending on your return train choice and the schedules.

Hey Al!

I think Alan's probably right. If you're bound and determined to ride an Acela, D.C. Union Station to the BWI stop is probably a good bet. Y'know, I shelled out to ride an Acela from New York to D.C. a few years ago, and was actually disappointed. It was too smooth for my tastes. I knew we were going really fast, but it didn't FEEL like fast. I know that's probably good for most, but I didn't really like it.

If you really wanna get the sensation of speed, you could hang out on the platform at the BWI station and wait for an express to jam by. Dude, you'll see fast. And quiet. You have to check the schedule and pay attention, cuz they'll sneak up on you like a bat outta hell and be gone before you know it.

And Alan's MARC return suggestion is an excellent one. Dirt cheap. Not only that, but MARC trains typically push on the way to D.C., so you can stand up front and look foward during the ride - always fun.

WhoozOn1st999 said:

And Alan's MARC return suggestion is an excellent one. Dirt cheap. Not only that, but MARC trains typically push on the way to D.C., so you can stand up front and look forward during the ride - always fun.

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Just a word of caution.... If you are planning to take MARC make sure you are doing so on a weekday. MARC trains do not run on weekends.

For probably the same price as the ride to BWI, you could also ride all the way into Baltimore. It would give you 10-15 more minutes on the train, and you could still do MARC back (assuming its a weekday).

Acela fares between Baltimore and Washington tend to be cheapest in middays and weekends, and if you opt for a weekend ride, you can always take a Regional back, or if you're feeling adventurous, take Baltimore's Light Rail to BWI, then get the Metrobus B-30 Express bus to Greenbelt, then catch the Green Line Metro back in to DC.

Quick note - MARC service *might* be operating on a limited weekend schedule by Summertime. There have been talks and plans of establishing such in the future!

AlanB said:

That's a 20 minute trip where I believe you'll manage to get to 135 MPH for a brief period.

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Unless they have recently installed ACSES Phase I in that part of the railroad I don't believe you get upto 135mph there. AFAIK ACSES is currently installed only in NJ (in the NYP - WAS segment of the NEC), but that information is about 2 years old, so it may have been added elsewhere, since they are supposed to progressively add ACSES as an overlay at least to those portions where speeds in excess of 125mph would be permissible with appropriate signaling and civil speed enforcement, i.e. track is FRA Class 8 (as per 49 CFR 213.9 and 213.307).

One way you can get a hint on whether ACSES Phase I has most likely been installed or not is to be on the lookout for one, two or three bright yellow passive transponders placed in the middle of the track right under the block signals. As you travel down the NEC between New Brunswick and Trenton look for them on the middle two tracks and at a few places on the outer tracks, specially at interlockings where a train can enter or leave the middle two tracks. I would be interested to hear about any sightings anywhere other than between New Brunswick (County) and Trenton (Fair) in the NYP - WAS segment of the NEC.

Of course you will see these at many places between NHV and BOS too.

Also note that the transponders used for ACSES are much larger in size than the transponders that NJT uses for ASES designed by a different vendor but fully interoperable with ACSES.

One other option is to get off the Carolinian at Baltimore and ride Acela BAL to WAS. The Carolinian #67 arrives BAL at 9:47am. Acela 2109 leaves BAL at 10:14am. It gets to DC at 10:44am, just 10 minutes later than #67. Right now a $45 bucket price is available on 2109.

Assuming you have checked bags, leave your NYP-WAS reservation on #67 as is (the difference between NYP-WAS and NYP-BAL is only $9 each). Check your luggage at NYP to WAS, ride as far as BAL and just get off #67 there. Wait 27 minutes and ride 2109 to WAS. When you arrive in DC, only 10 minutes later than #67, go get your luggage, and it's a done deal. For $45 each you got a taste of Acela without having to carve out time from your visit to DC.

jis said:

AlanB said:

That's a 20 minute trip where I believe you'll manage to get to 135 MPH for a brief period.

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Unless they have recently installed ACSES Phase I in that part of the railroad I don't believe you get upto 135mph there. AFAIK ACSES is currently installed only in NJ (in the NYP - WAS segment of the NEC), but that information is about 2 years old, so it may have been added elsewhere, since they are supposed to progressively add ACSES as an overlay at least to those portions where speeds in excess of 125mph would be permissible with appropriate signaling and civil speed enforcement, i.e. track is FRA Class 8 (as per 49 CFR 213.9 and 213.307).

One way you can get a hint on whether ACSES Phase I has most likely been installed or not is to be on the lookout for one, two or three bright yellow passive transponders placed in the middle of the track right under the block signals. As you travel down the NEC between New Brunswick and Trenton look for them on the middle two tracks and at a few places on the outer tracks, specially at interlockings where a train can enter or leave the middle two tracks. I would be interested to hear about any sightings anywhere other than between New Brunswick (County) and Trenton (Fair) in the NYP - WAS segment of the NEC.

Of course you will see these at many places between NHV and BOS too.

Also note that the transponders used for ACSES are much larger in size than the transponders that NJT uses for ASES designed by a different vendor but fully interoperable with ACSES.

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Huh? :unsure: Acela has routinely been doing 135 MPH on many stretches of track RR west of NYP since it came online. What they can't do is 150 MPH.

What I can't recall is if there are any 135 MPH streches between WAS and BWI.

AlanB said:

Huh? :unsure: Acela has routinely been doing 135 MPH on many stretches of track RR west of NYP since it came online. What they can't do is 150 MPH.
What I can't recall is if there are any 135 MPH streches between WAS and BWI.

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As far as I know, the stretch between MARC's Odenton and Bowie stops is 135. Many MARC trains (running with the bilevel Kawasakis and HHPs) cruise through there at 125 MPH, making it the fastest commuter railroad in North America.

-Rafi

I have already booked the Carolinian and the tough part is not knowing what my congressman is lining up for us in DC. I contacted Sen. Ben Nelson (D) in March and they told me they will contact me the first week of June about what they have set up for us for tours etc. I just kinda want to ride Acela so I can experience it. Just don't know if the 3 gals will be all that interested in it as I am. But they all do enjoy travelling by train! Metro, I like your post but thats too adventurous for me only because I have 3 women needing me to lead them around and I don't want to miss a connection. If I was doing this alone, I would be all over that! I appreciate all the info. When you are somewhat new to rail travel, you really don't know all the "commuter" types of stuff even though I was aware of MARC by some earlier posts about this trip, but knowing they don't operate on weekends etc is such a huge bonus of being part of this group! I love it! Thanks!

Hey I could be wrong, but do you know for sure which segments are actually cleared for 135mph operation exactly? Or are you just speaking from your warm and fuzzy feelings about it? Just because MARC runs at 125 does not make it a Class 8 track. 125 needs only Class 7. Several years ago when they started clearing for 135 ops in the south what I had read is that FRA had decreed that they need to have ACSES Phase I operational in those segments. I have no clue where it is operational south of Trenton (even less so on which specific tracks), mainly because I have not been following its deployment. For example between County and Fair it is allowed only on tracks 2 and 3 and that is where ACSES is operational.

It would sure be good if Rafi or someone else could get a definitive current status on this from someone in the know, including which segments. It would also be nice to know for sure if FRA allows 135 operation without ACSES. That would essentially be under a temporary waiver.

Heck because I don't know for sure I gave y'all a method to try to observe signs of deployment of ACSES. I just observe and report the best I can.

Well according to this page from the FRA's website, maximum authorized speed is 135 MPH. It doesn't state on what stretches of the road Acela can actually achieve that, but it is clear that certain stretches are authorized for 135 MPH.

I've also seen this widely reported in many places, far too many to just assume that it's a typical newspaper error. And there have been videos taken showing 135 indicated on the speedometer.

jis said:

Hey I could be wrong, but do you know for sure which segments are actually cleared for 135mph operation exactly? Or are you just speaking from your warm and fuzzy feelings about it? Just because MARC runs at 125 does not make it a Class 8 track. 125 needs only Class 7. Several years ago when they started clearing for 135 ops in the south what I had read is that FRA had decreed that they need to have ACSES Phase I operational in those segments. I have no clue where it is operational south of Trenton (even less so on which specific tracks), mainly because I have not been following its deployment. For example between County and Fair it is allowed only on tracks 2 and 3 and that is where ACSES is operational.
It would sure be good if Rafi or someone else could get a definitive current status on this from someone in the know, including which segments.

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Well, I'll admit it: I've just got a "warm and fuzzy feeling" about the Acela being 135 on the Odenton-Bowie stretch. It's not often I'm on an Acela south of Baltimore, but the next time I am, I'll be sure to bring along the GPS and see what happens. I also know some folks at MARC (formerly from Amtrak) who might be able to tell me quickly off the top of their head.

-Rafi

OK, I did a little more digging and it is quite likely that there are a few additional segments between NYP and WAS that have ACSES installed. By poking around I have considerable evidence now that ACSES I is installed in about 430 track miles. If you consider roughly 2 tracks between NHV and BOS and two tracks between New Brunswick and Trenton that only accounts for about 360 track miles or a little less. So there is about 70 track miles (or about 35 route miles assuming at least two tracks in a segment) worth of ACSES installed somewhere else and indeed the segment between Bowie and Odenton would be a prime candidate segment. There would be some additional segments between Wilmington and Baltimore I'd presume.

Still digging around to see if I can find any more definitive information.

I have recently ridden the Acela Express between New York and Washington, and I just so happened to be paying attention to the speed on my GPS receiver. Here's what I remember:

Between roughly New Brunswick and Trenton, NJ is 135 mph territory. Also, south of Wilmington, the train gets up to 135 mph briefly in the Newark, Delaware area and then maintains 130 mph for a good stretch basically from Newark, DE to Perryville, MD. South of Baltimore, however, I don't think we exceeded 125 mph.

The Swedish X2000 and German ICE actually operated at 135 mph on stretches where the Acela is still limited to 125.

Is there any chance the train was operating at 130 and not 135 because there may have been a train in front of them that they weren't going to be able to pass? (A common practice in air traffic control these days apparently is to send planes on slightly indirect routes so that they are nicely spaced coming into an airport.)

Joel N. Weber II said:

Is there any chance the train was operating at 130 and not 135 because there may have been a train in front of them that they weren't going to be able to pass? (A common practice in air traffic control these days apparently is to send planes on slightly indirect routes so that they are nicely spaced coming into an airport.)

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I don't think so. I made a round trip in August on the Acela, and then a couple of months ago I took the Acela one way (and a Regional back). On all three Acela runs, we held at 130 mph rather than 135. Here's a video clip I took on the 130 mph stretch:

Joel N. Weber II said:

Is there any chance the train was operating at 130 and not 135 because there may have been a train in front of them that they weren't going to be able to pass? (A common practice in air traffic control these days apparently is to send planes on slightly indirect routes so that they are nicely spaced coming into an airport.)

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The only way the train would know about a train ahead of it is via a more restrictive speed code received from the ATC system, and that would reduce the speed way more than just 5mph. OTOH, ACSES could enforce a 130mph permanent speed restriction using an encoded transponder for that speed for Acela class trains with tilt mechanism on, for example (there are 5 classes of trains for which speed is specified by speed restriction transponders).

In the current 9 aspect cab signal the speeds that can be coded are 20, 30, 45, 60, 80, 100, 150. Of these 60 and 100 are currently not used, as presented in ["Full PTC Today with Off the Shelf Technology: Amtrak’s ACSES Overlay on Expanded ATC" by Hoelscher and Light]. Any other permanent speed restriction (e.g. 135mph) is communicated to the train through static transponders that are installed in the track by the signals. The on board computer enforces the lesser of the various max speeds indicated to be currently in effect from various sources. (There is an additional source that will become available in ACSES II which is via a radio message. This is not in service at present)

In any event an adverse signal in this situation would indicate cab speed of 80mph. The visual signal would be, as far as I can gather, a blinking green indicating "cab speed". The fact that the train held 130mph on several runs strongly suggest a permanent speed restriction of 130mph communicated to the train by transponder(s).

AlanB said:

Well according to this page from the FRA's website, maximum authorized speed is 135 MPH. It doesn't state on what stretches of the road Acela can actually achieve that, but it is clear that certain stretches are authorized for 135 MPH.
I've also seen this widely reported in many places, far too many to just assume that it's a typical newspaper error. And there have been videos taken showing 135 indicated on the speedometer.

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Alan,

No one has suggested that there are no segments of 135 mph speed between NYP and WAS. All that we are trying to determine is the extent of track segments on which such speed is allowed. I think we have come to be reasonably sure that there are at least two segments (i) New Brunswick (actually County/Jersey Ave.) - Trenton (actually east of CP Fair), and (ii) Newark DE (most likely starting from a little west of CP Ragan) to Perryville (actually most likely CP Prince a little east of Perry). We are still trying to determine for sure if there is a segment between BAL and WAS.

If any of you travel that way by whichever type of train, could you please be on the lookout for these yellow humps about 4 inches high and 6"x4" mounted right in the middle of the track typically just by the block signals? Those are the ACSES transponders and are a dead giveaway of the availability of ACSES in that area. Since south of NYC AFAIK ACSES has been installed only in 125mph+ areas (FRA Class 8) that is a good indication that higher than 125mph is allowed through that signal or at least just following that signal. Also, because the speed limit is 135mph which can only be enforced via static transponders these transponders will be there in 135mph territory.

PRR 60 said:

One other option is to get off the Carolinian at Baltimore and ride Acela BAL to WAS. The Carolinian #67 arrives BAL at 9:47am. Acela 2109 leaves BAL at 10:14am. It gets to DC at 10:44am, just 10 minutes later than #67. Right now a $45 bucket price is available on 2109.
Assuming you have checked bags, leave your NYP-WAS reservation on #67 as is (the difference between NYP-WAS and NYP-BAL is only $9 each). Check your luggage at NYP to WAS, ride as far as BAL and just get off #67 there. Wait 27 minutes and ride 2109 to WAS. When you arrive in DC, only 10 minutes later than #67, go get your luggage, and it's a done deal. For $45 each you got a taste of Acela without having to carve out time from your visit to DC.

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Not to nitpick, but Carolinian is 79/80 and 80 arrives Baltimore at 6:07 PM, if on time. 66/67 are Regional trains.

BobWeaver said:

PRR 60 said:

One other option is to get off the Carolinian at Baltimore and ride Acela BAL to WAS. The Carolinian #67 arrives BAL at 9:47am. Acela 2109 leaves BAL at 10:14am. It gets to DC at 10:44am, just 10 minutes later than #67. Right now a $45 bucket price is available on 2109.
Assuming you have checked bags, leave your NYP-WAS reservation on #67 as is (the difference between NYP-WAS and NYP-BAL is only $9 each). Check your luggage at NYP to WAS, ride as far as BAL and just get off #67 there. Wait 27 minutes and ride 2109 to WAS. When you arrive in DC, only 10 minutes later than #67, go get your luggage, and it's a done deal. For $45 each you got a taste of Acela without having to carve out time from your visit to DC.

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Not to nitpick, but Carolinian is 79/80 and 80 arrives Baltimore at 6:07 PM, if on time. 66/67 are Regional trains.

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My mistake. #79 arrives BAL at 9:47am.

VT Hokie said:

The Swedish X2000 and German ICE actually operated at 135 mph on stretches where the Acela is still limited to 125.

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How does this work? What are these European Trains doing on our NEC?

p&sr said:

VT Hokie said:

The Swedish X2000 and German ICE actually operated at 135 mph on stretches where the Acela is still limited to 125.

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How does this work? What are these European Trains doing on our NEC?

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Back in the 90's (IIRC) - before the AE was developed - Amtrak leased a X2000 and ICE train as demonstration units to see how they handled the NEC. The AE was developed as a combined unit of both of these.

Too bad the speed didn't carry over. (And I think these were diesels, not electric. I remember seeing one of them at LAUS.)

the_traveler said:

Back in the 90's (IIRC) - before the AE was developed - Amtrak leased a X2000 and ICE train as demonstration units to see how they handled the NEC. The AE was developed as a combined unit of both of these.
Too bad the speed didn't carry over. (And I think these were diesels, not electric. I remember seeing one of them at LAUS.)

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They were fully electric. They were taken on a nation-wide tour behind diesels as a publicity/PR program for Amtrak and high speed rail.

From what I recall the original plan was to have the Acela run 150mph everywhere the track layout would allow, but other aspects of the project ran over budget so they settled for 135mph south of NYP where current conditions allowed. They still plan to bring speeds up to 150mph south of NYP, but until money is made available its not going to happen in the near future.

Crescent ATN & TCL said:

They were fully electric. They were taken on a nation-wide tour behind diesels as a publicity/PR program for Amtrak and high speed rail.

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On the nationwide tour the ICE was powered by the pair of Amtrak's AC drive demonstrator F69PH AC's 450 and 451, specially painted in an ICE-like livery. Take a look at this picture.

From what I recall the original plan was to have the Acela run 150mph everywhere the track layout would allow, but other aspects of the project ran over budget so they settled for 135mph south of NYP where current conditions allowed. They still plan to bring speeds up to 150mph south of NYP, but until money is made available its not going to happen in the near future.

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AFAIR, there never was money in the budget to do the necessary catenary upgrades in the south half of the NEC nor for deploying ACSES. Matters were complicated in the south also because NJT was independently developing ASES and interoperability between ASES and ACSES had to be worked out, which apparently has been achieved at this point.

What is sad is that the project ran over budget and ran out of money even before completing everything that was supposed to be done between NYP and BOS.

Fortunately they are taking reasonable small steps in the south in the right direction to eventually get the speeds upto the full potential. Meanwhile the yet to be completed parts of the upgrade project in the north still plods along slowly in small steps. The big one currently is the realignment of the so called Shell interlocking near New Rochelle which when done should be good for chopping off about 2 minutes or so from the Acela schedule.

BTW, I did have the good fortune to ride both the X2000 and the ICE when they ran on the NEC. They of course ran under a special waiver from FRA since they were not compliant with FRA standards, and yes, they did run at 135mph, again under waiver, since FRA was yet to develop standards for such speeds at that time.