No Tickets

Hi Folks,

I booked my International visitors rail pass, and arrived in Chicago Airport from UK on 5 August.

When I went to the union station Monday 6th to book my trains and collect the pass, I found that although coach seats were available to the public, the seats were not available to rail pass holders. I found this quite confusing, as the blurb says the pass is good for all trains in coach, except specific upgraded trains,acella, car trains, etc.

I argued the point with the clerk and even asked to speak to a supervisor. Can you believe it, Chicago Union station, Monday mid morning, no supervisor could be found! After half an hour hanging around I was told rthat I could have a regular coach seat to Seattle, but would "have to pay the difference".

I declined saying I couldnt see why my pass was not valid, and cancelled the pass there and then.

I booked a 3 week car hire, and since then drove to St Louis, heading west to Colorado along route 50.

I am in Cortez and today I will be driving to Monument Valley and then onto Flagstaff.

I have seen some incredible scenery, overcome driving on the wrong side of the road, and am seeing some of the small town America that I was hankering after.

It may be that the pass was not valid, but it should be clearly stated. It says you should reserve seats asap, but that appies to all seats, I can't see where It says pass seats are limited.

The end result anyway is that I am having a great road trip! I doubt if I will try to travel by train in August again, maybe off peak is the answer. It would nbe nice to know the full story of railpass validity though.

Hey! All Aboard The Sports Car To The Desert...

Ed B)

It surprised me too, but the Terms and Conditions of the USA Rail Pass does include language that indicates the inventory of seats for Rail Pass use is limited and, by inference, less than the invetory of all seats.

Reservations for train travel should be made as far in advance as possible; seats for USA Rail Passes are limited on each train. We do not recommend waiting until the day of departure to make your reservations since there is a greater chance that seats for USA Rail Pass passengers may not be available on your desired train.

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One of the benefits of having a rail pass is the flexibility to travel spontaneously. Having to pre-book travel weeks or months in advance to use the pass definitely limits its usefulness for an international visitor. If a seat is available on the day of travel (and presumably will go empty), I cannot see why Amtrak would deny a pass holder the seat.

Having said that, a car is a great way to see the country if you don't mind the driving. You can stop and explore some out of the way locales that the train just rolls through. Just be careful with that side of the road deal. Heading the wrong way on I-70 could create quite a ruckus.

I think there has to be inventory available in bucket "A" for you to be able to use the pass. The buckets fill in D, C, B, A, Y order as the train gets more bookings. There's a good chance that during peak season, the "A" bucket will fill before departure day.

The people behind this stuff need to realize that the people buying the passes could not care less about "buckets" or any other such nonsense. All they are wanting is two seats. Looks like a situation badly handled, regarless of the excuse.

George Harris said:

The people behind this stuff need to realize that the people buying the passes could not care less about "buckets" or any other such nonsense. All they are wanting is two seats. Looks like a situation badly handled, regarless of the excuse.

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"No supervisor???" I'll bet if someone showed up with a dozen donuts and free coffee they would fall off the wall like roaches...

had8ley said:

"No supervisor???" I'll bet if someone showed up with a dozen donuts and free coffee they would fall off the wall like roaches...

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:lol: :lol: Extreme cruelty! The picture this conjured up caused to to spray coffee on my computer screen.

Her name is Marcy.I had a run in with her on Aug 5th after a 16hr late Texas Eagle ended up taking a bus home. no seats of any kind available and I had reserved sleeper.mp-44......

... caused to to spray coffee on my computer screen.

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Wouldn't have happened if you had installed that new anti-Java extension to your browser. :lol: :lol:

mp-44 said:

Her name is Marcy.I had a run in with her on Aug 5th after a 16hr late Texas Eagle ended up taking a bus home. no seats of any kind available and I had reserved sleeper.mp-44......

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I'm a little confused here. Why did you need to book a seat if you had already reserved a sleeper? Do you have to buy rail pass tickets in the station, or were you not using a rail pass at all?

Well things are going well on the road trip, I have visited Seligman for route 66 nostalgia, Grand canyon, Hoover Dam, Williams, and staying tonight in Flagstaff. (nice town, quite laid back). I object to being charged a premium for a peak season pass, and then not being allowed to travel. It would be nice if Amtrak could have told me the conditions of travel before I bought the pass. It is a long way to come for a train ride that was not then available!

Anyway, I am having lots of fun anyway on the road trip

Ed B)

caravanman said:

Well things are going well on the road trip, I have visited Seligman for route 66 nostalgia, Grand canyon, Hoover Dam, Williams, and staying tonight in Flagstaff. (nice town, quite laid back). I object to being charged a premium for a peak season pass, and then not being allowed to travel. It would be nice if Amtrak could have told me the conditions of travel before I bought the pass. It is a long way to come for a train ride that was not then available!Anyway, I am having lots of fun anyway on the road trip

Ed B)

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Now I'm confused too,

As Amtrak does explain the conditions of the pass here:

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServe...45&ssid=296

Caravanman, I assume you used the USA Railpass and it does explain that you need to make reservations for each train you wish to take. In other words, just like all of us who live here, you need to book ahead of time!

frj1983 said:

[Caravanman, I assume you used the USA Railpass and it does explain that you need to make reservations for each train you wish to take. In other words, just like all of us who live here, you need to book ahead of time!

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It is more than that. Regular reservations can be made at any time. As long as seats are available on the the train, you and I can reserve the seat. The USA Rail Pass does not offer that fexibility. Only a limited number of seats on each train are available for rail pass holders. Once that inventory is sold out (maybe months in advance), then the pass cannot be used even if the train has available seats. That limitation of USA Rail Pass usefulness is what Amtrak does not explain very well. In this case the OP got to Chicago, wanted to use the pass for the Empire Builder, the EB had seats for sale, but the pass could not be used because the limited inventory of seats for rail pass holders was sold out.
For anyone who wants to be even slightly flexible with travel plans, the USA Rail Pass may not be a good deal.

I am quite "lucky" to have found out about the problem before my first reservation.. If I had managed to use the pass for even one small trip, Amtrak would have kept the full $600 I paid for the pass, no refunds!

It is unreasonable for prospective international rail pass users (and tourist dollar spenders..) to pay a price for the coach seat pass, then be denied travel and to find the train has coach seats available which are being kept back in the hope of being sold to others at a higher price.

I thought the lack of a supervisor was typical too! I just wanted to double check that the ticket clerk was

acting correctly.

I have travelled over 25,000 miles on Amtrak, and hope to do more sometime. It is the lack of information that galls me.

So, dear friends, once more I jump (stoop.. I am 55) into my sporty car and head off on the open road.

Thank goodness for air con, it was 115 at Hoover dam yesterday!

Ed

I think there is some confusion regarding the terminology related to railpass use: in fact, there is NOT a limited number of tickets on each train set aside for pass users, nor attached to any particular bucket. I think what happened was rather that there was a serious miscommunication between the original agent and the railpass holder. In fact, if someone is attempting to do a full crosscountry voyage (CHI-OKJ, for example), there is a fairly high likelihood - especially during peak travel periods - that seats are not available for the full trip; a portion of it, probably, but those who want to do an inexpensive, 1600-mile "land cruise" generally book tickets well in advance. In other words, there would have been portions of the trip (and this is VERY common, both for pass holders and regular ticket buyers) that are completely sold out, so doing the full trip is impossible.

I "have a friend" who is a conductor, and "he" has seen the full terms and conditions of railpass use (as printed more completely on the back of the pass itself). If a seat was available from, say, Victorville (CA) to CHI, and someone asked to board despite not having an advance reservation, that person would not be turned away. Rather, the conductor would call the main reservations office to indicate an onboard sale, and that seat would then be blocked out for the remainder of the trip. If, however, no such seat was available, the passholder would in fact be turned away. I myself have been turned away from trains once or twice in Europe when using a Europass, so I know it's not unique. There is no conspiracy to deprive passholders of transportation, nor any need or desire to extort extra money from them. In this kind of situation, one is advised to call the 800 number before the first leg of the trip, especially on reserved trains, and even more so during the summer or winter holidays. There are no magic seats being held for people who will pay more.

It was unfortunate that the gentleman who started this post encountered a problem, but just quitting on the spot didn't really show much of the tenacity that is required when traveling great distances, regardless of mode.

Also, FYI, there are many options for routing, and a lot of the shorter-distance routes are unreserved, so even during "crunch time", it may still be possible to get where one wants to go, it might just involve a detour.

Guest said:

I think there is some confusion regarding the terminology related to railpass use: in fact, there is NOT a limited number of tickets on each train set aside for pass users, nor attached to any particular bucket. I think what happened was rather that there was a serious miscommunication between the original agent and the railpass holder. In fact, if someone is attempting to do a full crosscountry voyage (CHI-OKJ, for example), there is a fairly high likelihood - especially during peak travel periods - that seats are not available for the full trip; a portion of it, probably, but those who want to do an inexpensive, 1600-mile "land cruise" generally book tickets well in advance. In other words, there would have been portions of the trip (and this is VERY common, both for pass holders and regular ticket buyers) that are completely sold out, so doing the full trip is impossible.I "have a friend" who is a conductor, and "he" has seen the full terms and conditions of railpass use (as printed more completely on the back of the pass itself). If a seat was available from, say, Victorville (CA) to CHI, and someone asked to board despite not having an advance reservation, that person would not be turned away. Rather, the conductor would call the main reservations office to indicate an onboard sale, and that seat would then be blocked out for the remainder of the trip. If, however, no such seat was available, the passholder would in fact be turned away. I myself have been turned away from trains once or twice in Europe when using a Europass, so I know it's not unique. There is no conspiracy to deprive passholders of transportation, nor any need or desire to extort extra money from them. In this kind of situation, one is advised to call the 800 number before the first leg of the trip, especially on reserved trains, and even more so during the summer or winter holidays. There are no magic seats being held for people who will pay more.

It was unfortunate that the gentleman who started this post encountered a problem, but just quitting on the spot didn't really show much of the tenacity that is required when traveling great distances, regardless of mode.

Also, FYI, there are many options for routing, and a lot of the shorter-distance routes are unreserved, so even during "crunch time", it may still be possible to get where one wants to go, it might just involve a detour.

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Well what you are saying is in direct contrast to what Amtrak has posted on their website:

PRR 60 said:

It surprised me too, but the Terms and Conditions of the USA Rail Pass does include language that indicates the inventory of seats for Rail Pass use is limited and, by inference, less than the invetory of all seats.

Reservations for train travel should be made as far in advance as possible; seats for USA Rail Passes are limited on each train. We do not recommend waiting until the day of departure to make your reservations since there is a greater chance that seats for USA Rail Pass passengers may not be available on your desired train.

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I can't swear as to which is correct, what you've been told by your conductor friend or what has been stated on the website, but based upon the OP's experience and the language on Amtrak's website I have to believe that there is indeed a limited number of railpass seats.

Perhaps I misunderstood Caravanman,

But from his very first post: I arrived at CUS "to book my trains and pick up my pass," I can only ask him, did you mean (and this is what I thought) that you were trying to book/reserve your seats on that day? In other words did you not make reservations for the trains you wanted when you purchased the pass, or did you expect to just walk up and get seats?

Note that Amtrak says "we do not recommend waiting until the day of departure to make your reservations since there is a great chance that seats will not be available."

Caravanman's intent is the piece that is missing here and makes things confusing for me.

frj1983 said:

Perhaps I misunderstood Caravanman,
But from his very first post: I arrived at CUS "to book my trains and pick up my pass," I can only ask him, did you mean (and this is what I thought) that you were trying to book/reserve your seats on that day? In other words did you not make reservations for the trains you wanted when you purchased the pass, or did you expect to just walk up and get seats?

Note that Amtrak says "we do not recommend waiting until the day of departure to make your reservations since there is a great chance that seats will not be available."

Caravanman's intent is the piece that is missing here and makes things confusing for me.

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When Caravanman was at CHI they would not honor his Pass for a seat to Seattle, but they were willing to sell him a seat to Seattle.

...I was told that I could have a regular coach seat to Seattle, but would "have to pay the difference".

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That indicates that seats were open to Seattle, but the Pass could not be used to reserve them.

I think this will be my last comment on the subject, I do thank all those who took time to add their views..

Under the current system, it seems that I have no way of knowing which trains have rail pass seats available to book...if indeed it depends on availability of the lowest bucket seat price.

How can I know which trains have seats available, in order to plan an itinery?

It seems daft to me that I can be sold a pass, but cannot be informed except by the trial and error of actualy trying to buy a ticket at the ticket window, which trains have availability for that pass on any given date!

Anyway, I honestly feel quite pleased that I have this road trip to enjoy,

It has opened my eyes to some beautiful scenery that I would not have seen from the train.

I think I will probably book a hire car for future visits, now that I have seen the light.. It is a lot simpler, and they make life easy.

I am here in America driving a hire car, rather than riding Amtrak, which was why I came here in the first place..

I don't think Amtrak have made it easy for me to give them my dollars!

As some of you have said, I don't expect to obtain tickets if all seats are sold, but the public can check and book tickets instantly on the website.. I need to know if seats are available to me, as a rail pass purchaser, in the same way. That's the difficulty as I see it!

Ed B)

caravanman said:

I think this will be my last comment on the subject, I do thank all those who took time to add their views..
Under the current system, it seems that I have no way of knowing which trains have rail pass seats available to book...if indeed it depends on availability of the lowest bucket seat price.

How can I know which trains have seats available, in order to plan an itinery?

It seems daft to me that I can be sold a pass, but cannot be informed except by the trial and error of actualy trying to buy a ticket at the ticket window, which trains have availability for that pass on any given date!

Anyway, I honestly feel quite pleased that I have this road trip to enjoy,

It has opened my eyes to some beautiful scenery that I would not have seen from the train.

I think I will probably book a hire car for future visits, now that I have seen the light.. It is a lot simpler, and they make life easy.

I am here in America driving a hire car, rather than riding Amtrak, which was why I came here in the first place..

I don't think Amtrak have made it easy for me to give them my dollars!

As some of you have said, I don't expect to obtain tickets if all seats are sold, but the public can check and book tickets instantly on the website.. I need to know if seats are available to me, as a rail pass purchaser, in the same way. That's the difficulty as I see it!

Ed B)

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Can't you call Amtrak fot tickets or book them on their website??

Ok, I know what I said, but just this one last reply, from sunny Sacremento (and the rail museum!)

The idea of a pass seems to me to be different from buying cheap tickets in advance. If as a tourist

I decide to plan my whole rail pass journey 100% in advance, I still have no way of booking that on the

Amtrak website. It may be possible to phone them and pre book the whole trip, I dont feel that making Transatlantic phone calls is cheap, nor do I feel that phone staff can understand my english accent very

easily. I want the flexibility that a "pass" implies, If I arrive in EMY and decide to stay two days or three,

I would like to be able to plan where to go next by having transparent seat availability to see on the web. If all seats are sold on a train, so be it.. I can see whether all seats are sold out on a train from the Amtrak website.. I can't find out if railpass seats will be available, nor book them, on the website!

Someone else must have used railpasses, how do most people manage, is it just book the whole trip

in advance by phone?

Ed B)

If any Amtrak management or ACAC members read through this topic, this seems to me to be something Amtrak needs to urgently address. A rail pass should not equate to a "hunting license" for seats. It should guarantee seats unless the train is literally sold out. Not sold out of cheap seats. SOLD OUT OF SEATS, period. Especially if those seats CANNOT be reserved online. This railpass is for folks that don't live here. Their time is expensive, and limited, and they need to be able to GET seats when they need them, as otherwise their holiday is going to be chaotic, and memorable for the wrong reasons. They can't reserve a hotel, or hire a car, or anything else, ahead of time if they don't know whether they will have a seat on a given train. A Florida resident railpass, by contrast, is a "flash pass", meaning you simply show the pass and your I.D and get on the train, no reserved seating, and if there are no available coach seats, you stand, or you sit in the lounge, until seats become available. But you are not precluded from boarding.

As an interim "fix", Amtrak must at the very least reprogram the reservation system on the web so that availability of seats can be determined, and those seats can be booked, online using the railpass purchase number. The current situation is inexcusable.