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Thirdrail7

Viewliner II Part 4: Sleeping Car Production, Delivery, Speculation

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50 minutes ago, cpotisch said:

Viewliner Is are only certified for 110, which makes them the bottleneck on long distance trains. ;)

There is no bottleneck. The running times on the NEC aren't much different from the 125mph trains.  One only need to look at the 125mph Carolinian to see there isn't much of a difference.  The schedule has to do with dwell, passengers, potential baggage, express, private cars, etc. 

The discharge "110" mph train often make the  WAS-NYP under 3 hours and that is based on light loads of mail, baggage and/or express or lack of special service requests.

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3 hours ago, Thirdrail7 said:

There is no bottleneck. The running times on the NEC aren't much different from the 125mph trains.  One only need to look at the 125mph Carolinian to see there isn't much of a difference.  The schedule has to do with dwell, passengers, potential baggage, express, private cars, etc. 

The discharge "110" mph train often make the  WAS-NYP under 3 hours and that is based on light loads of mail, baggage and/or express or lack of special service requests.

So I was correct that V-IIs can do 125, right?

(mentioning @Acela150)

Edited by cpotisch

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1 minute ago, cpotisch said:

So I was correct that V-IIs can do 125, right?

They can do 125 but the schedule difference between the 125 trains and 110mph is not impressive so there isn't a focus on upgrading the View Is to 125, even though they were tested a few years ago.

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The YouTube channel All The Stations; just took a ride & reviewed the new GWR sleeping cars, which looked pretty nice. While their compartment did look quite cramped there were some nice touches and furnishings could be nice to bring to the US, in particular the ladder seems really clever & space-saving.

Peter

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Don't forget that the Viewliners ran with the heritage diners which were limited to 110 so that limited the entire train.  BUT I was on a northbound Silver Meteor a few years ago eating in the diner and we were hitting 125 mph on the corridor north of D.C.!  Apparently they can run that fast but we were bouncing all over the place and the ride was incredibly rough so it's more of a passenger comfort thing.    

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Don't forget that the Viewliners ran with the heritage diners which were limited to 110 so that limited the entire train.  BUT I was on a northbound Silver Meteor a few years ago eating in the diner and we were hitting 125 mph on the corridor north of D.C.!  Apparently they can run that fast but we were bouncing all over the place and the ride was incredibly rough so it's more of a passenger comfort thing.    


I’m going to stop you there. Heritage equipment was and is limited to 110 mph and runs under train type “C” on the NEC. ACSES would have put the train into a penalty application if the engineer even tried to reach 125 mph. And you may say that ACSES the PTC was put into effect in late 2015. But there were sections of the corridor where ACSES was in service. Those areas are where the Acela trainsets reach speeds over 125 mph. Which at the time before ACSES was corridor wide was the entire shoreline past New Haven to Boston. And in New Jersey as well as parts of Delaware and Maryland.

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3 hours ago, Acela150 said:

 


I’m going to stop you there. Heritage equipment was and is limited to 110 mph and runs under train type “C” on the NEC. ACSES would have put the train into a penalty application if the engineer even tried to reach 125 mph. And you may say that ACSES the PTC was put into effect in late 2015. But there were sections of the corridor where ACSES was in service. Those areas are where the Acela trainsets reach speeds over 125 mph. Which at the time before ACSES was corridor wide was the entire shoreline past New Haven to Boston. And in New Jersey as well as parts of Delaware and Maryland.

 

Don't remember where it happened, but it did.

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Just now, cocojacoby said:

Don't remember where it happened, but it did.

The Heritage equipment was 60-70 years old, and legally could not exceed 110, as Steve said. Did you check your phone or GPS or something to see the speed? And are you sure that you were eating in a Heritage diner instead of a ViewDiner?

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There really isn’t any LD train except the Palmetto that is permitted 125mph even today. It doesn’t matter which Diner is on the train. The V-1s are 110mph restricted.

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Just now, jis said:

There really isn’t any LD train except the Palmetto that is permitted 125mph even today. It doesn’t matter which Diner is on the train. The V-1s are 110mph restricted.

Right. How I was able to forget that having just mentioned it a few posts before is beyond me. :blush: :help:

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There's nothing fundamental preventing the Viewliner Is from being certified for 125 mph rather than 110 mph.  They probably will be sooner or later.  It's only made sense to try since the last Heritage car went away.  And it really makes very little difference.

Edited by neroden

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1 hour ago, cpotisch said:

The Heritage equipment was 60-70 years old, and legally could not exceed 110, as Steve said. Did you check your phone or GPS or something to see the speed? And are you sure that you were eating in a Heritage diner instead of a ViewDiner?

Yeah, I had a speed app.  I remember we were eating breakfast so it was northbound in the morning.  I have never eaten in a Viewdiner.  It was before their time.  It was anywhere up to 10 years ago now and definitely north of D.C.  We didn't maintain the speed for very long.  I remember my coffee was splashing around and the staff had difficulty serving since we were bouncing around so much but they didn't appear to be concerned.  I was very surprised since I was aware of the speed limit for these cars. 

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May we suspect that the V-1s were not certified to 125 was because there was no way to certify the heritage bags to that speed?  Timetable instructions had different speeds for the H-bags none over 110. So why certify V-1s to 125 for the extra expense with MAYBE SOME ADDITIONAL EXPENSES TO MAINTAIN THE 125? Now the 110 restriction  gums up the NEC somewhat so make the certification.  Also the AM-1 & -2s are 125 MPH.    Excuese the type change computer fumble fingers..   

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3 hours ago, cocojacoby said:

Yeah, I had a speed app.  I remember we were eating breakfast so it was northbound in the morning.  I have never eaten in a Viewdiner.  It was before their time.  It was anywhere up to 10 years ago now and definitely north of D.C.  We didn't maintain the speed for very long.  I remember my coffee was splashing around and the staff had difficulty serving since we were bouncing around so much but they didn't appear to be concerned.  I was very surprised since I was aware of the speed limit for these cars. 

Your "speed app" indicating you were traveling at 125mph was probably as accurate as this the speed app this gentleman was using. :rolleyes:

3 hours ago, west point said:

May we suspect that the V-1s were not certified to 125 was because there was no way to certify the heritage bags to that speed?  Timetable instructions had different speeds for the H-bags none over 110. So why certify V-1s to 125 for the extra expense with MAYBE SOME ADDITIONAL EXPENSES TO MAINTAIN THE 125? Now the 110 restriction  gums up the NEC somewhat so make the certification.  Also the AM-1 & -2s are 125 MPH.    Excuese the type change computer fumble fingers..   

Before we completely hijack this thread, let's remember they attempted to certify the View Is and a few other pieces of equipment a few years ago.  Some modifications are needed (something around the truck area) and the updated wheel profile is needed. However, the current regime is not interested in this right now, so unless something dramatically changes, the View I fleet will remain at 110mph for the foreseeable future. 

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6 hours ago, cocojacoby said:

Don't remember where it happened, but it did.

I'll put it this way. Those Speed apps aren't entirely reliable. I once had an app tell me my Acela was going 330mph. I can personally guarantee you that the speedometer in the lead motor didn't get much over 110 mph.  PTC trumps your 125 mph theory. ;) 

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So back to the question at hand:

I'd wait until the first 3 ViewSleeper IIs come out and assign a pair to 66/67. This is a train that really needs a sleeper back.  1 in each direction and a protect.

Now, you could probably then assign say one round-trip a week to whatever train needs another sleeper. I'm guessing this time of year it's a Silver Service train.

Remember, you don't need to add it to EVERY trip. So even if some days you had 2(3?) sleepers and a couple with 3(4?) you've added revenue.

Now, your can use your 1 extra ViewSleeper for protect and if you have to use it, comp the one room inconvenienced, or use a ViewSleeper I as a protect and if you use it, sell the last room at a discount.

After that, I'd wait I'd probably for another 3 more, and then do the same thing as above 2 a second train (i.e. additional cars on the busiest days that make the most sense).

At some point, you can then finally go to extra cars on every day of the week.

Only when I've got somewhere between 15-20 VIIs on property would I start to refurbish the VIs.

At least that's what I would do, but no one at Amtrak is taking my calls.

 

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1 hour ago, Thirdrail7 said:

Your "speed app" indicating you were traveling at 125mph was probably as accurate as this the speed app this gentleman was using. :rolleyes:

Before we completely hijack this thread, let's remember they attempted to certify the View Is and a few other pieces of equipment a few years ago.  Some modifications are needed (something around the truck area) and the updated wheel profile is needed. However, the current regime is not interested in this right now, so unless something dramatically changes, the View I fleet will remain at 110mph for the foreseeable future. 

Interesting.  I'd assume they'd update the wheel profiles incrementally as they "true" them, since that's what you do with wheel profiles.  I do wonder what other modifications were deemed to be necessary.

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On 2/10/2019 at 3:44 PM, Thirdrail7 said:

They can do 125 but the schedule difference between the 125 trains and 110mph is not impressive so there isn't a focus on upgrading the View Is to 125, even though they were tested a few years ago.

What if an LD train on the NEC is running late? A NER or Acela could easily be stuck behind it, correct?

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There are multiple tracks available on the NEC. Usually the LD train will be held somewhere and the Acela or NER will overtake the LD. Usually happens at a station where LDs dwell much longer than the corridor trains.

Just the 15mph difference is not big enough to make the difference in running times between two crossovers where the LD can be removed from the path of a faster train that much of an issue. Incidentally this also happens between NERs and Acelas, so nothing unusual.

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10 hours ago, neroden said:

Interesting.  I'd assume they'd update the wheel profiles incrementally as they "true" them, since that's what you do with wheel profiles.  I do wonder what other modifications were deemed to be necessary.

What does it mean to "update the wheel profile"?

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10 hours ago, StriderGDM said:

I'd wait until the first 3 ViewSleeper IIs come out and assign a pair to 66/67. This is a train that really needs a sleeper back.  1 in each direction and a protect

Agree (and maybe the best bet for a Delta One lie-flat seat experiment) BUT . . . does anyone think it would be better to rearrange the routes south of Richmond and run the train to Norfolk instead?

Some population info:

Norfolk (242,070) + Virginia Beach (454,846) + Petersburg (31,396) = 728,312

Newport News = 181,345

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biggest problem is the 2 and 3 track sections WASH - PHL to prevent delaying other Amtrak trains

Can you be more specific about how much time is exactly lost because of what you claim to be the biggest problem?

Also BTW Wilmington to PHL is almost wholly four tracks. Also the rest of it is three tracks except for two track segments on three bridges.


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On 2/11/2019 at 10:08 PM, Acela150 said:

I'll put it this way. Those Speed apps aren't entirely reliable. I once had an app tell me my Acela was going 330mph. I can personally guarantee you that the speedometer in the lead motor didn't get much over 110 mph.  PTC trumps your 125 mph theory. ;) 

In Baltimore, we have speed cameras that hand out speeding tickets to cars stopped at a red light.  You have to take this technology with a little grain of salt.

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