Gateway, D.C., & Chicago Trump Infrastructure Priorities

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It appears to be a patchwork of projects. There does not appear to be a plan.

There is a need to improve the air traffic system and the interstate system. Imho there needs to be more hsr. In addition to Texas hsr could do a lot in the eastern USA. If you look at population east of Mississippi River I think it's similar to Western Europe. Imho a hsr network could drive the economy and reduce air traffic and car traffic significantly.
 
The selection criteria included major impact, more or less shovel ready, and significant immediate job creation - the so called Tier 1 list. There is a Tier 2 list of additional stuff which may see the light of the day.

RAIL PROJECTS:

- DC Union Station Expansion and Rehab

- Chicago Union Station Redevelopment

- Red and Purple Line Modernization, Chicago

- MBTA Green Line Extension, Boston

- Maryland Purple Line

- M-1 Rail, Detroit

- Second Avenue Subway - Phases 2 & 3

- Gateway Program

- Cotton Belt Line Rail Project

I also like the potential funding of updating the ATC system.

Curiously, there is a huge overlap with the list that the Democrats announced yesterday. Democrats included many additional items from the Tier 2 list too.
 
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The FAA's NextGen has been interesting in theory, and useful in a few places, but the FAA needs to be rebuilt from top to bottom first!
 
Steve4031 said:
It appears to be a patchwork of projects. There does not appear to be a plan.

There is a need to improve the air traffic system and the interstate system. Imho there needs to be more hsr. In addition to Texas hsr could do a lot in the eastern USA. If you look at population east of Mississippi River I think it's similar to Western Europe. Imho a hsr network could drive the economy and reduce air traffic and car traffic significantly.
Click to expand...
Without an integrated public transit system, high-speed-rail would be pretty useless. If you look at Japan, where they've had high-speed-rail for a long time, they have a highly integrated system. (I've referred to being in Tokyo as "Living in the machine.") Airports are connected to the rail or local subway system. Regional buses stop at train stations and airports. Here in the US, integrated transportation is a rarity. Look at Peachtree Station in Atlanta as an example. Dulles (IAD) is still connected to Washington by bus. In many smaller cities Greyhound has abandoned their downtown stations and now stop at some gas station out by the Interstate, which may or may not be served by the local bus system.

I think it would be fine to plan for HSR; maybe condemn some right-of-way, etc but it needs to be considered as a part of an integrated transportation system, not a stand-alone project.
 
I think this list actually addressees high return projects, Unless there is a good solution to the last mile problem, HSR is unlikely to succeed. Building a station out in the field with no connectivity will not work. Brightline realized this and hence chose to build its stations in places where there already is some connectivity. while working on improving such. Any other HSR system will need to do the same to succeed.

Here is the latest official list in a more readable form:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3409546-Emergency-NatSec50Projects-121416-1-Reduced.html
 
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The rail projects are all well known (except for the Cotton Belt, I don't know much about that) and certainly worthy of funding. Let's hope it actually gets done. It sounds like the Democrats are ready to get behind this, but Republicans, especially the very conservative, tend to oppose such big spending. It will be very interesting to see it unfold.
 
Trump seems to be promising huge tax cuts coupled with huge infrastructure spending. He needs to understand that the government isn't a real estate development and can't just start building on credit and if the buyers don't show, take a bath and leave the banks to sort it out. Expenditures require revenue from some place. The Republican pipe dream of cutting taxes to solve the revenue problem is exactly that, a dream. It worked once but ever since it's resulted in huge defects.
 
I find it interesting that M-1 Rail (now called the Q-Line) is listed, because it's almost finished. They have equipment now to run, the track is all installed; I think at this point they're training & finishing the stations. Doesn't seem like the kind of project needing Gov't Assistance.

peter
 
PerRock said:
I find it interesting that M-1 Rail (now called the Q-Line) is listed, because it's almost finished. They have equipment now to run, the track is all installed; I think at this point they're training & finishing the stations. Doesn't seem like the kind of project needing Gov't Assistance.

peter
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I haven't closely followed the M-1 Rail project, is there a second phase that hasn't yet been constructed?
 
jis said:
The selection criteria included major impact, more or less shovel ready, and significant immediate job creation - the so called Tier 1 list. There is a Tier 2 list of additional stuff which may see the light of the day.
Click to expand...
I haven't been able to locate the Tier 2 list. Is it available online?
 
I don't believe so. I was using the term merely to refer to additional items that are further out that were sent in by many advocates and did not make it into the list of 50. Many of them also appear in the Democrats list.
 
jis said:
I don't believe so. I was using the term merely to refer to additional items that are further out that were sent in by many advocates and did not make it into the list of 50. Many of them also appear in the Democrats list.
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Thanks. It would be an interesting see what other projects didn't make the list.

I am particularly curious to see if the NEC projects in Maryland where in there somewhere. The BWI station project and the B&P Tunnel replacement are at or rapidly nearing a point where, if funding is made available, construction could begin in a relatively quick time frame.
 
Keep in mind that it's not altogether clear just what this leaked list represents. There are now stories circulating that the list McClatchy reported may be "fake" so to speak - perhaps just a list of projects submitted to the then-Trump transition team/now-Trump Administration, but with no indication that it's actually a list of projects the administration intends to seek funding for.
 
CraigDK said:
PerRock said:
I find it interesting that M-1 Rail (now called the Q-Line) is listed, because it's almost finished. They have equipment now to run, the track is all installed; I think at this point they're training & finishing the stations. Doesn't seem like the kind of project needing Gov't Assistance.

peter
Click to expand...
I haven't closely followed the M-1 Rail project, is there a second phase that hasn't yet been constructed?
Click to expand...
Yes, No, and Not that I've heard of.

The whole project was divided into smaller phases, which you may have heard talk about. However these aren't the big phases you usually hear with rail infratructure projects. It's things like: Phase 1 EB tracks, Phase 2 WB tracks, Phase 3 Stations, etc.

So yes, there are multiple phases.

But those aren't the type you're referring to. I haven't heard anything about any next-stage project for M-1.

However there was talk about it back in 2011, but it was a shorter line then. Essentially the Feds pulled out of the project in 2011 & so there was talk at the time of splitting the project. Instead they raised more private funding & did the whole project.


For MI-based rail projects that could use more funding. There are really 3:

  1. The Michigan Line could always use support getting PTC & line speed up. There is a desire to double track the majority of it; no funding at the time for that.
  2. MiTrain - Ann Arbor to Detroit. Still lots of funding projects to be done there.
  3. WALLY - Ann Arbor to Livingston County. In my opinon a stupid place for a commuter line, but hey our communities are spending money on it. There is no passenger infrastructure on the line, so lots needs to be built.
  4. Other futuristic projects. There are a bunch of pretty far out there ideas for more passenger trains in Michigan. Most involve getting lines running up towards Mackinaw.

peter
 
PerRock said:
CraigDK said:
PerRock said:
... interesting that M-1 Rail (now called the Q-Line) is listed, because it's almost finished.
Click to expand...
I haven't closely followed the M-1 Rail project, is there a second phase that hasn't yet been constructed?
Click to expand...
The whole project was divided into smaller phases

But those aren't the type you're referring to. I haven't heard anything about any next-stage project for M-1.


For MI-based rail projects that could use more funding. There are really 3:

  1. The Michigan Line could always use support getting PTC & line speed up. ... to double track the majority of it
  2. MiTrain - Ann Arbor to Detroit.
  3. WALLY - Ann Arbor to Livingston County. In my opinion a stupid place for a commuter line ...
  4. Other futuristic projects. ... a bunch of pretty far out there ... Most involve getting lines running up towards Mackinaw.
Click to expand...
Your #1 is the real #1. More capacity and more frequencies on the Wolverine route, at least up to Pontiac.

Why does nobody talk about pushing 40 or 50 miles from Pontiac on up to Flint? Afraid the riders would have to drink the water? Or does linking the largely black populations of Flint and Detroit cause nightmares for Michigan's white voters? Anyway, I'd see a viable route Saginaw-Flint-Pontiac-Detroit.

I wouldn't try to go to Mackinaw. The population really thins out north of the Saginaw-Bay City-Midland tri-cities.

Seems to be a lot of talk about a train Grand Rapids-Lansing-Ann Arbor-Detroit. Since it would pass thru the state's capital city, the politicians all understand it and like it -- but they probably don't wanna pay for it. LOL.

Another needed route would be Toledo-Dearborn/Detroit/Ann Arbor). It's needed to give Michigan access to the East Coast, of course. But it could generate a lot of local ridership. The ties between Toledo and Detroit's auto industry go back to the roots of Libbey-Owens-Ford, when the glass for windshields and car windows was made in Toledo. And the Ohio Hub plans included corridor service with 8 or 9 trains a day Cleveland-Detroit, another pair of cities with auto-making a strong piece of their economies.

I'm amazed that any Top 50 list did not include South of the Lake. That's the bundle of upgrades (a new dedicated passenger track, new bridges, etc) needed to bring 110-mph service into Chicago from where it now starts (or stops) near Indiana's Michigan border. This project would take another 40 minutes out of the Detroit-Chicago runs and allow more frequencies on all three of the existing Michigan services. As a bonus it would also take the same 40 minutes out of the Lake Shore Ltd and Capitol Ltd LD trains, while getting Amtrak out of the way of the heavy freight traffic on NS. The South of the Lake estimates run $1.5 - $2.5 Billion, depending on what's included. But the planning for this work has been very slow, with deadlines repeatedly postponed.
 
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WoodyinNYC said:
PerRock said:
CraigDK said:
PerRock said:
... interesting that M-1 Rail (now called the Q-Line) is listed, because it's almost finished.
Click to expand...
I haven't closely followed the M-1 Rail project, is there a second phase that hasn't yet been constructed?
Click to expand...
The whole project was divided into smaller phases

But those aren't the type you're referring to. I haven't heard anything about any next-stage project for M-1.


For MI-based rail projects that could use more funding. There are really 3:

  1. The Michigan Line could always use support getting PTC & line speed up. ... to double track the majority of it
  2. MiTrain - Ann Arbor to Detroit.
  3. WALLY - Ann Arbor to Livingston County. In my opinion a stupid place for a commuter line ...
  4. Other futuristic projects. ... a bunch of pretty far out there ... Most involve getting lines running up towards Mackinaw.
Click to expand...
I'm amazed that any Top 50 list did not include South of the Lake. That's the bundle of upgrades (a new dedicated passenger track, new bridges, etc) needed to bring 110-mph service into Chicago from where it now starts (or stops) near Indiana's Michigan border. This project would take another 40 minutes out of the Detroit-Chicago runs and allow more frequencies on all three of the existing Michigan services. As a bonus it would also take the same 40 minutes out of the Lake Shore Ltd and Capitol Ltd LD trains, while getting Amtrak out of the way of the heavy freight traffic on NS. The South of the Lake estimates run $1.5 - $2.5 Billion, depending on what's included. But the planning for this work has been very slow, with deadlines repeatedly postponed.
Click to expand...
You probably answered your own question. In these initial infrastructure programs, they were supposedly looking for projects which were "shovel ready", among other criteria, and if planning has been slow and postponed it likely wasn't eligible. However, these (if accurate) presumably only represent the first round of infrastructure investment; South of the Lake may yet be heard from.

One project I'd like (and hope) to see are the Virginia to North Carolina corridor plans.
 
South of the Lake also runs into the problem that the state that would be the likely candidate to "submit" the project to the feds (Indiana) isn't exactly the most likely state to push for intercity passenger rail funding, so in part it requires Illinois and Michigan to push for a project in a neighboring state.
 
jis said:
I don't believe so. I was using the term merely to refer to additional items that are further out that were sent in by many advocates and did not make it into the list of 50. Many also appear in the Democrats' list.
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I found this on BondBuyer.com.

http://www.bondbuyer.com/news/washington-infrastructure/senate-democrats-challenge-trump-with-their-own-1t-infrastructure-plan-1123493-1.html

using a Google search of the title.

The proposal outlined Tuesday by Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., would provide $210 billion for roads and bridges, $180 billion for rail and bus systems, $110 billion for water projects, $75 billion for schools, $65 billion for ports and airports, $20 billion for projects in national parks and tribal lands, $20 billion for expanding wireless broadband service, and $10 billion for Veterans Affairs hospitals.

It would expand the Transportation Investment Generating Economic Recovery (TIGER) grant program by $10 billion and provide major increases in clean water and drinking water state revolving funds.

The proposal also includes a $200 billion Vital Infrastructure Projects (VIP) program that will direct major federal investments to the most critical national projects.
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But I'm not finding an itemized list of proposed projects from the Democrats. Is there such? A link please. Of course, I may be misunderstanding and the BondBuyer 'list' is the (non-itemized) list.
 
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PerRock said:
CraigDK said:
PerRock said:
I find it interesting that M-1 Rail (now called the Q-Line) is listed, because it's almost finished. They have equipment now to run, the track is all installed; I think at this point they're training & finishing the stations. Doesn't seem like the kind of project needing Gov't Assistance.

peter
Click to expand...
I haven't closely followed the M-1 Rail project, is there a second phase that hasn't yet been constructed?
Click to expand...
Yes, No, and Not that I've heard of.

The whole project was divided into smaller phases, which you may have heard talk about. However these aren't the big phases you usually hear with rail infratructure projects. It's things like: Phase 1 EB tracks, Phase 2 WB tracks, Phase 3 Stations, etc.

So yes, there are multiple phases.

But those aren't the type you're referring to. I haven't heard anything about any next-stage project for M-1.

However there was talk about it back in 2011, but it was a shorter line then. Essentially the Feds pulled out of the project in 2011 & so there was talk at the time of splitting the project. Instead they raised more private funding & did the whole project.


For MI-based rail projects that could use more funding. There are really 3:

  1. The Michigan Line could always use support getting PTC & line speed up. There is a desire to double track the majority of it; no funding at the time for that.
  2. MiTrain - Ann Arbor to Detroit. Still lots of funding projects to be done there.
  3. WALLY - Ann Arbor to Livingston County. In my opinon a stupid place for a commuter line, but hey our communities are spending money on it. There is no passenger infrastructure on the line, so lots needs to be built.
  4. Other futuristic projects. There are a bunch of pretty far out there ideas for more passenger trains in Michigan. Most involve getting lines running up towards Mackinaw.
peter
Click to expand...
5. Crossover/switch/whatever to allow the Pere Marquette to stop at New Buffalo. MDOT has applied for federal funding for this in the past, but AFAIK hasn't gotten it.

6. A second daily Pere Marquette. IIRC, dependent on more equipment. They run a second train on select days around Thanksgiving, but it doesn't go all the way to Grand Rapids so the same trainset can serve both round-trips.
 
A second daily PM would be amazing. What might its timetable be?

Also, have there been any studies/proposals/rumblings about extending the PM, say to Muskegon, Fremont, or TC?
 
Pere Flyer said:
A second daily PM would be amazing. What might its timetable be?

Also, have there been any studies/proposals/rumblings about extending the PM, say to Muskegon, Fremont, or TC?
Click to expand...
As to extending the PM, I don't live in Michigan so I'm not "plugged in" on that.

As to what the schedule for a second PM would be, I don't know exactly. However, as the PM is now well-set for a day trip from Michigan to Chicago (to Chicago in the morning, from Chicago in the evening), a second train would presumably be scheduled for a day trip from Chicago to Michigan (from Chicago in the morning, to Chicago in the evening). I imagine a schedule that allows Chicagoans to spend the day (and $$$) on the Michigan shore would be more appealing to the Michigan government than a train that allows Michiganders to spend the day in Chicago. :giggle:

The extra PM on the Thanksgiving timetable https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/240/229/Michigan-Thanksgiving-Timetable,0.pdf leaves Chicago in the morning and gets back to Chicago in the afternoon, but it turns around at Holland to allow the trainset for the daily PM to serve double-duty as the extra PM.
 
It may be the only way to get more Michigan trains is to combine / split trains at Battle Creek? Once South of the Lake is completed then maybe more dedicated service ? Blue water and Wolverines ?
 
I think the best schedule for a second Pere Marquette would be to have the exact same times southbound in the PM as they currently run in the AM, allowing a departure from Grand Rapids at 6 PM and a 9:11 arrival in Chicago. Northbound the schedule could also be flipped, but should be pushed an hour later so Chicago is not too early in the morning. This would depart Chicago at 7:30 and arrive Grand Rapids at 12:39 PM. Is this actually a realistic near-term possibility that the government is considering or is it just another idea we wish could happen?
 

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