Lake Shore Limited Sleeper confusion

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fulham

Service Attendant
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Jun 22, 2012
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Just booked a Boston - Chicago one way trip on the Lake Shore for Friday November 20th.

When I booked it showed a roomette available between Boston and Albany, and a roomette between Albany and Chicago. I went ahead and booked this and my ticket came back showing:

Car 4920 Room 001 Boston - Albany

Car 4911 Room 008 Albany - Chicago

Now I know the Boston section of the LSL has been running as a cross platform connection with only coaches and a cafe, and I don't think this is supposed to change by the 20th (but I could be wrong).

I have also read that sleeper passengers are accommodated in one half of the cafe car between Boston and Albany.

Just wondering if anyone has an idea of what the actual accommodation will be between Boston and Albany.

Thanks.
 
Now I know the Boston section of the LSL has been running as a cross platform connection with only coaches and a cafe, and I don't think this is supposed to change by the 20th (but I could be wrong).

Unless something changes, it is supposed to change back to standard operation prior to your travel date. What you booked should be available.
 
One of the dining car staff on the LSL I was on last month noted that some rumors had floated around that the ALB-BOS section would remain as a stub train with the sleeper added and that all passengers traveling on the 448-449 sections would detrain at Albany and board or deboard there on the 48 or 49 sections. This would allow the sleepers to remain at the front of the 48 train to NYP after switching the engines out at ALB. It was true that Boston coach passengers on my 48 did change trains at ALB that day for the stub train.

I am not sure if this had any validity but there seemed to be that talk in the diner that morning .
 
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Give Amtrak a call to see if they can get you in the 20 car all the way. Unless you would be ok with changing sleepers. Something to keep in mind though is that the BOS section is at the head end of the train at CHI. The NYP section is a long walk at CHI.
 
I'll be very interested to know if you have a sleeper, and if it is still a stub train with cross-platform transfer, since I will be taking that train in December. Hmmmn, and they gave you room 001? -- that's not normal (it's always the attendant's room). Let us know what happens.
 
I'll be very interested to know if you have a sleeper, and if it is still a stub train with cross-platform transfer, since I will be taking that train in December. Hmmmn, and they gave you room 001? -- that's not normal (it's always the attendant's room). Let us know what happens.
Correction: Room #1 is the SCAs Room on Superliner Sleepers/ In Viewliners the OBS occupy various Rooms with the SCA in the last Roomette across from the Shower!
 
I'll be very interested to know if you have a sleeper, and if it is still a stub train with cross-platform transfer, since I will be taking that train in December. Hmmmn, and they gave you room 001? -- that's not normal (it's always the attendant's room). Let us know what happens.
Correction: Room #1 is the SCAs Room on Superliner Sleepers/ In Viewliners the OBS occupy various Rooms with the SCA in the last Roomette across from the Shower!
Ah! You're right, I always forget that when I look at room numbers on the Viewliners. Can't wait for the eastern part of my trip, though, I love sleeping in the top bunk with a window! Hubby always gets the bottom bunk when we travel together, and I get the time-out room on the Superliners.
 
I called Amtrak Guest rewards today and the rep who I spoke with told me that the Boston section and the NY section of the Lake Shore are 2 separate trains.

I told her I understood that and I was aware that currently their is a cross platform connection between the 2 trains in Albany...they are not combined. She was very nice and said yes, that is the case. I asked if this would be the case for my trip and she said yes. So the question is, is Amtrak running a sleeper on 448/449 between Boston and Albany and vice versa on the connecting/stub trains? Too me this would seem to be a waste of a Viewliner sleeper since the NY section has been running with 3 sleepers. Maybe it is the sleeper that was pulled of the Cardinal.

Anyway it will be interesting so see what the actual consist is when I board in Boston on the 20th.
 
One of the dining car staff on the LSL I was on last month noted that some rumors had floated around that the ALB-BOS section would remain as a stub train with the sleeper added and that all passengers traveling on the 448-449 sections would detrain at Albany and board or deboard there on the 48 or 49 sections.
In the long run, this would be a hideous and pointless downgrade in service. Also, the sleepers on #48/49 would be dangerously overcrowded, and prices would skyrocket.
But the track and platform work is *still* going on, and they really can't do the join/split while it's happening. I am not sure why they would decide to put a sleeper car on the Boston section during this... it would have to be *additional* to the sleepers from ALB-CHI, because the LSL really cannot handle only having two sleepers from ALB-CHI. And I didn't think they had enough spare Viewliners to do that.

Maybe there are more spare Viewliners and there's a shortage of Amfleet IIs?

Or is the ticketing showing you a "room" but you'll actually have a seat?

Or has someone in Amtrak management lost their mind completely?

Mysterious.
 
Spot on. My last LSL trip a few months back the third sleeper was pulled up from NY, Boston was the stub with coaches and a BC/Café. Other than the bustitution days for track work towards Boston, I don't think anything has changed.
 
I called Amtrak Guest rewards today and the rep who I spoke with told me that the Boston section and the NY section of the Lake Shore are 2 separate trains.

I told her I understood that and I was aware that currently their is a cross platform connection between the 2 trains in Albany...they are not combined. She was very nice and said yes, that is the case. I asked if this would be the case for my trip and she said yes. So the question is, is Amtrak running a sleeper on 448/449 between Boston and Albany and vice versa on the connecting/stub trains? Too me this would seem to be a waste of a Viewliner sleeper since the NY section has been running with 3 sleepers. Maybe it is the sleeper that was pulled of the Cardinal.

Anyway it will be interesting so see what the actual consist is when I board in Boston on the 20th.

It shouldn't be that interesting. As previously noted, unless something dramatic happens (and with CSX and Amtrak, there is room for drama) the Lake Shore should be back to normal:

Lake Shore Limited Trains 448 and 449: Alternate Transportation between Albany-Rensselaer and Boston

Effective Sunday through Wednesday Only, November 1 - 18, 2015

On Sunday through Wednesday only, from November 1 through November 18, 2015, Trains 448 and 449 will not operate between Albany-Rensselaer and Boston due to track work being performed by CSX Transportation.

Passengers will be provided bus service to and from Albany-Rensselaer, Pittsfield, Springfield, Worcester, Framingham and Boston South Station.

Passengers at Boston South Station should go to the Amtrak Information Desk for instructions on boarding the buses.

Passengers at Framingham, will board all buses at the drop-off/pick-up area Track 2 platform (at Waverly Street).

Boston Back Bay Service Canceled: Trains 448 and 449 will not stop at Boston Back during this time, and bus service will not be provided. Passengers may contact MBTA for travel to and from Boston Back Bay.

We appreciate your patronage and apologize for any inconvenience you may experience. Reservation and train status information is available on Amtrak.com, our free mobile apps and at 1-800-USA-RAIL (1-800-872-7245).

Thank you for traveling with Amtrak.

You're traveling on the Friday, the 20th of November. They are outside the scope of the project.

It could be that the rooms from Albany in the 4920 were booked, so the computer or agent booked you in the 4911 car from Albany.
Someone gets it.

Give Amtrak a call to see if they can get you in the 20 car all the way. Unless you would be ok with changing sleepers. Something to keep in mind though is that the BOS section is at the head end of the train at CHI. The NYP section is a long walk at CHI.
It is too late for that.

One of the dining car staff on the LSL I was on last month noted that some rumors had floated around that the ALB-BOS section would remain as a stub train with the sleeper added and that all passengers traveling on the 448-449 sections would detrain at Albany and board or deboard there on the 48 or 49 sections. This would allow the sleepers to remain at the front of the 48 train to NYP after switching the engines out at ALB. It was true that Boston coach passengers on my 48 did change trains at ALB that day for the stub train.

I am not sure if this had any validity but there seemed to be that talk in the diner that morning .
There is some validity to this concept. Without hijacking the thread, the Lake Shore currently arrives in New York as a non conforming consist. Furthermore, the puny Silver Star is non conforming. So, there are a few scenarios being floated about how to proceed next.
 
You're traveling on the Friday, the 20th of November. They are outside the scope of the project.
OK, nice and simple!

It could be that the rooms from Albany in the 4920 were booked, so the computer or agent booked you in the 4911 car from Albany.
Someone gets it.
Clever computer. I didn't know it was smart enough to do that.

Give Amtrak a call to see if they can get you in the 20 car all the way. Unless you would be ok with changing sleepers. Something to keep in mind though is that the BOS section is at the head end of the train at CHI. The NYP section is a long walk at CHI.
It is too late for that.
Really? Usually it isn't too late to change rooms if you get an agent who knows what she's doing. It's possible that a room has emptied out / been cancelled since the reservation was made.


One of the dining car staff on the LSL I was on last month noted that some rumors had floated around that the ALB-BOS section would remain as a stub train with the sleeper added and that all passengers traveling on the 448-449 sections would detrain at Albany and board or deboard there on the 48 or 49 sections. This would allow the sleepers to remain at the front of the 48 train to NYP after switching the engines out at ALB. It was true that Boston coach passengers on my 48 did change trains at ALB that day for the stub train.

I am not sure if this had any validity but there seemed to be that talk in the diner that morning .
There is some validity to this concept. Without hijacking the thread, the Lake Shore currently arrives in New York as a non conforming consist. Furthermore, the puny Silver Star is non conforming. So, there are a few scenarios being floated about how to proceed next.
What a horrible, horrible idea. It's bad enough to get out and change trains in coach, but in sleeper, there's a serious advantage to staying in your room. More importantly, as I've said, it doesn't seem to make sense from an equipment allocation perspective, at least until the Viewliner II sleepers are delivered. You need at *least* 3 sleepers from CHI to ALB (barring the restoration of the Broadway Limited sleeper). I suppose you could run 3 from CHI to NYP and an additional sleeper from ALB to BOS, but where are you gonna *get* the additional sleeper for ALB-BOS?
Once Viewliner II sleepers are available and running NYP-PHL-CHI, there might be enough drop in through ridership on the LSL to run 2 sleepers NYP-ALB-CHI and one BOS-ALB... but there might not. I think odds are that a BOS-CHI sleeper is going to make sense for the forseeable future.

I don't see the point of making the experience worse for sleeper & coach passengers in order to use more equipment in a less efficient manner. I mean, unless Amtrak is actually *trying* to fail and *trying* to convince states to hire other operators and *trying* to get Congress to break it up... it just doesn't make sense to worsen the customer experience when it costs *more* to do so.

A few years ago, Amtrak had a lot of good ideas. Some of them were implemented. Lately I'm wondering if parts of the management have been replaced with crazy people, because some really dumb ideas keep popping up.

I also have no idea what "non-conforming" means in this context. Conforming to *what*? Some standards are worth conforming to, but there are some standards which it's worth not conforming to because the standards are dumb, pointless, or even counterproductive.
 
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Really? Usually it isn't too late to change rooms if you get an agent who knows what she's doing. It's possible that a room has emptied out / been cancelled since the reservation was made.
Ok. I will rephrase. It is possible that someone will cancel and or no show for various reasons. Absent that, you will not be able to stay in the 20 car for the trip...unless you want additional company. ^_^

What a horrible, horrible idea. It's bad enough to get out and change trains in coach, but in sleeper, there's a serious advantage to staying in your room. More importantly, as I've said, it doesn't seem to make sense from an equipment allocation perspective, at least until the Viewliner II sleepers are delivered. You need at *least* 3 sleepers from CHI to ALB (barring the restoration of the Broadway Limited sleeper). I suppose you could run 3 from CHI to NYP and an additional sleeper from ALB to BOS, but where are you gonna *get* the additional sleeper for ALB-BOS?

Once Viewliner II sleepers are available and running NYP-PHL-CHI, there might be enough drop in through ridership on the LSL to run 2 sleepers NYP-ALB-CHI and one BOS-ALB... but there might not. I think odds are that a BOS-CHI sleeper is going to make sense for the forseeable future.
You're assuming the stub section was going to have sleeper. Remember, they dropped the through BOS sleeper at one point. It can be done again. However, this is all speculation and discussion.

don't see the point of making the experience worse for sleeper & coach passengers in order to use more equipment in a less efficient manner. I mean, unless Amtrak is actually *trying* to fail and *trying* to convince states to hire other operators and *trying* to get Congress to break it up... it just doesn't make sense to worsen the customer experience when it costs *more* to do so.

A few years ago, Amtrak had a lot of good ideas. Some of them were implemented. Lately I'm wondering if parts of the management have been replaced with crazy people, because some really dumb ideas keep popping up.

I also have no idea what "non-conforming" means in this context. Conforming to *what*? Some standards are worth conforming to, but there are some standards which it's worth not conforming to because the standards are dumb, pointless, or even counterproductive.
Well, let's link your statements. You say you don't know what conforming pertains to. Without know that portion and what it entails, how can you really say if that would result in less efficient utilization let alone say that it would cost more. In the grand scheme, it may indeed be more efficient to run a stub section with a cross platform transfer than altering a bunch of other trains on a routine basis.

Particularly if part of the standard is grounded in law, no matter how ridiculous, time consuming, pointless and counterproductive one may deem it to be.
 
I don't see how it could be an ADA issue; the cars themselves don't allow wheelchair through travel down the hallways & aisle (they should, but they don't) and the car next to the dining car is oriented correctly, and the car next to the cafe car is oriented correctly.

It can't be a signalling/shunting issue; the trains are long enough.

It can't be a crash-safety end-car issue; baggage cars are on the end and they're the newest.

I don't see how it could be a PTC issue; this would imply gross incompetence in the PTC design, which should be able to handle any train consist whatsoever given suitable programming. (If it doesn't, my services as a programmer are available; I can redesign the system for you. I am very, very good at this stuff.)

It can't relate to boarding safety at Penn Station, because the platforms are the problem there, and that affects all trains.

There's already a long, time-consuming sequence of engine off / engine on / brake tests etc. after the join or separation, so it can't have anything to do with any of that. That does take time, but it's largely consumed within the recovery time and time for meets with the other section, so eliminating it probably wouldn't actually save any time, unless the train could be made to run on time on the *rest* of its route, which sounds impossible in the medium term. Furthermore, the transferring passengers dragging all their luggage around would eat up substantial amounts of time, "cross platform" or not. I just don't see a time savings here.

I don't see what other regulations there could possibly be which would apply. There really are no other legal restrictions on train consists.

If "Part of the standard is grounded in law", I'm strongly suspicious that there's nonsense and **** afoot and that someone needs to get a bad regulation revoked. The FRA does have a history of bad regulations.

It can't relate to frequency of inspections or to staffing if the "nonconforming" issue is on the New York section... the Boston section travels for more hours when it goes to Chicago.

And if it does relate to staffing, the staff can always be changed at Albany.

Seriously, if there are worries about "conforming", Amtrak's priority should be reconfiguring Hudson station or at least changing procedures there, since it has an inherently unsafe boarding situation involving passengers crossing active tracks. There are also several SEPTA stations on the NEC north of Philadelphia which are basically invitations to liability lawsuits.

Without know that portion and what it entails, how can you really say if that would result in less efficient utilization let alone say that it would cost more. In the grand scheme, it may indeed be more efficient to run a stub section with a cross platform transfer than altering a bunch of other trains on a routine basis.
Because it would result in less efficient utilization. This is something which is measurable. I was assuming a sleeper on the BOS-ALB section, and you get less efficient utilization.

If they dropped the BOS-ALB sleeper, then sure, they might have slightly more efficient utilization. At the expense of ridership and revenue. Good way to drive the company down the drain.

It's also very dangerous to run the BOS-ALB section as a completely independent train with no join/split. It triggers the PRIIA rules for state-supported trains, and I don't think Massachusetts will be happy about that. They might decide to contract with someone other than Amtrak.
 
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The PRIIA rule point is an excellent one. Another item in my "I don't have a crystal ball" category would be what effect (if any) will the deployment of bag dorms have on the way this train is run. Could the bag-dorm be sufficient for the NYP-ALB baggage putting the staff rooms back in inventory, while leaving the one Boston sleeper?
 
The question is this...448 and 449 are currently running as cross platform connecting trains between Boston and Albany. I know between November 1st and the 18th there are bustitutions some days but by the 20th there will be a train, not a bus.

But will the the train between Boston and Albany be combined with the NY section at Albany or will it terminate in Albany and a cross-platform connection occur.

Based on all the construction at Albany, I understand the combining of the 2 sections of the LSL cannot occur. But I am booked in sleeper from Boston to Albany.

So the question is, if the Boston section of the LSL is a stub/cross-platform connecting train, is there a sleeper on it...that is what I need to know. Not whether or not I will be on a bus...I will be on a train, but will I have a sleeper or will I be in a coach?
 
The question is this...448 and 449 are currently running as cross platform connecting trains between Boston and Albany. I know between November 1st and the 18th there are bustitutions some days but by the 20th there will be a train, not a bus.

But will the the train between Boston and Albany be combined with the NY section at Albany or will it terminate in Albany and a cross-platform connection occur.

Based on all the construction at Albany, I understand the combining of the 2 sections of the LSL cannot occur. But I am booked in sleeper from Boston to Albany.

So the question is, if the Boston section of the LSL is a stub/cross-platform connecting train, is there a sleeper on it...that is what I need to know. Not whether or not I will be on a bus...I will be on a train, but will I have a sleeper or will I be in a coach?
Seriously, Fulham? I have answered your question twice already. From the second post in this thread:

Now I know the Boston section of the LSL has been running as a cross platform connection with only coaches and a cafe, and I don't think this is supposed to change by the 20th (but I could be wrong).

Unless something changes, it is supposed to change back to standard operation prior to your travel date. What you booked should be available.

From post twelve:

I called Amtrak Guest rewards today and the rep who I spoke with told me that the Boston section and the NY section of the Lake Shore are 2 separate trains.

I told her I understood that and I was aware that currently their is a cross platform connection between the 2 trains in Albany...they are not combined. She was very nice and said yes, that is the case. I asked if this would be the case for my trip and she said yes. So the question is, is Amtrak running a sleeper on 448/449 between Boston and Albany and vice versa on the connecting/stub trains? Too me this would seem to be a waste of a Viewliner sleeper since the NY section has been running with 3 sleepers. Maybe it is the sleeper that was pulled of the Cardinal.

Anyway it will be interesting so see what the actual consist is when I board in Boston on the 20th.

It shouldn't be that interesting. As previously noted, unless something dramatic happens (and with CSX and Amtrak, there is room for drama) the Lake Shore should be back to normal.


By saying "should," I am leaving open the possibility that the sleeper could be shopped, a closure blocks the B&A line or CSX doesn't manage to reopen the line and you end up on a bus.

However, as of now the Lake Shore Limited is scheduled resume normal operations prior to your departure date. What you booked ( RM 1 4920 BOS-ALB/ RM 8 4911 ALB-CHI) should be available.
 
I think that on the 20th, the BOS section will be operated with a train and will be a cross-platform transfer. I think the reason they booked 4920 for you is so they make sure you are assigned seats in business class on the stub train. (Those can not just be booked - they're only for the sleeping car passengers.) So the "room" on 4920 will actually be a business class seat.

Just my guess.
 
When referring to wheelchair access, I'm not sure I agree that roomettes should lose more room to make a hall or aisle wider. It is important to accomodate mobility limited folks, but at a certain point it is not reasonable to inconvenience the masses to benefit a few., even if they are well desrving.
 
I just attempted to book a sleeper from Boston to Chicago on the Amtrak website, and there are no sleeping accomodations bookable out of Boston until February 1. Until then, it's a transfer at Albany to a sleeping car.
 
I just attempted to book a sleeper from Boston to Chicago on the Amtrak website, and there are no sleeping accomodations bookable out of Boston until February 1.
My son had asked for a LSL trip, BOS to CHI as a christmas present, Originally, sleepers did show up in January because I was getting ready to book one.

But now they all have disappeared, I assume because of more track work. I don't mind pushing the trip out, but how can I be sure that the same thing will not happen in Feb?
 
I just attempted to book a sleeper from Boston to Chicago on the Amtrak website, and there are no sleeping accomodations bookable out of Boston until February 1.
My son had asked for a LSL trip, BOS to CHI as a christmas present, Originally, sleepers did show up in January because I was getting ready to book one.

But now they all have disappeared, I assume because of more track work. I don't mind pushing the trip out, but how can I be sure that the same thing will not happen in Feb?
I booked last spring for my mid-December trip. My reservation says I have a roomette in car 4920, but I am now assuming that they will come back to me some time between now and mid-December with a call or email to say I am not in the roomette (or maybe they'll just spring it on the passengers when we all arrive at the station :eek: ). I am now planning on the business class seat.
 
My last LSL trip was in June, and the 4920 car existed, but it was pulled up from and back to NY. The Boston sleeper passengers rode the BC half of the cafe and got the sleeper from Albany. There is a real good chance of that happening if the scheduled return to normal ops does not occur as scheduled. As others have stated, it was set to return to "normal", but we are talking Amtrak.
 
My last LSL trip was in June, and the 4920 car existed, but it was pulled up from and back to NY. The Boston sleeper passengers rode the BC half of the cafe and got the sleeper from Albany. There is a real good chance of that happening if the scheduled return to normal ops does not occur as scheduled. As others have stated, it was set to return to "normal", but we are talking Amtrak.

It is still scheduled to return for the holidays...but there is more to this than meets the eye. Two days ago, I would have bet money things would return to normal.

Now........... :blink:

I'm keeping a sharp watch, though.
 
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