Just 'Cause We Need Another Dining Car Thread...

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VentureForth

VentureForth

Engineer
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
6,439
Location
West Melbourne, FL
I took a quick trip to Winter Park from Savannah last week and on my return I had been able to secure a reservation for either 5 PM or 8 PM. The 8 PM was a little risky considering that 98 was supposed to originally get into Savannah at 7:30, but we were running an hour and a half behind. I knew we couldn't make up that much time, so I took the rez.

I was really hungry by 7:30 so I thought I'd try my luck and waltz over to the diner. They were practically EMPTY. I was seated immediately with another walk in diner. They moved like cold syrup. There was the LSA who was an older woman who's first name was the initial "G". We named her Grumpy. She was absolutely the SLOWEST employee I've ever seen. Then there was a young oriental SA who worked her butt off. She was incredible but overwhelmed. The other SA was apparently a newbie, spilling ice on customers and not being really attentive at all to what was going on.

One guy came in a bit after 8 without a reservation and they refused him service - even though there was plenty of room. They FINALLY offered him a to-go dinner that he ended up eating in the diner. Never mind there was a seat available next to me the entire time I was in the diner. And he walked at the same time another dinner guest joined our table.

Since Oriental was trying to keep up for Newbie, they were both pretty much ignoring us. We actually asked Grumpy for a refill of water and she said "Tell one of the others - they'll get it to you before I can." She spent most of her time sitting near the kitchen.

If others have encoutered Grumpy, please write Amtrak and tell them to get rid of this person sapping away at John Mica's $85M/year Dining car loss! They could have EASILY increased the revenue of the diner by a couple hundred dollars.

OH - and this was the first dinner out of Miami, and they were already out of "The Special"?

UGH.
 
I'm beginning to think that there needs to be a top-down reform on the diner reservations front. If nothing else, a given train needs to go to a set policy on reservations and needs to be required to accommodate non-reservation customers if there's space (with a possible, very specific allowance for turning folks away if you've got X tables and only Y servers).
 
Considering the number of times I've heard some seatings "called," what they might consider is a "if we call three times at your time and you're not here, we open it up to non-reservation people." Though that might precipitate a mad dash for the diner, I don't know.

I usually ride the TE and have to say that by and large the servers on there are pretty good. Once in a while you catch someone who seems to be having a bad day, but generally they're at least competent.
 
VentureForth said:
I took a quick trip to Winter Park from Savannah last week and on my return I had been able to secure a reservation for either 5 PM or 8 PM. The 8 PM was a little risky considering that 98 was supposed to originally get into Savannah at 7:30, but we were running an hour and a half behind. I knew we couldn't make up that much time, so I took the rez.

I was really hungry by 7:30 so I thought I'd try my luck and waltz over to the diner. They were practically EMPTY. I was seated immediately with another walk in diner. They moved like cold syrup. There was the LSA who was an older woman who's first name was the initial "G". We named her Grumpy. She was absolutely the SLOWEST employee I've ever seen. Then there was a young oriental SA who worked her butt off. She was incredible but overwhelmed. The other SA was apparently a newbie, spilling ice on customers and not being really attentive at all to what was going on.

One guy came in a bit after 8 without a reservation and they refused him service - even though there was plenty of room. They FINALLY offered him a to-go dinner that he ended up eating in the diner. Never mind there was a seat available next to me the entire time I was in the diner. And he walked at the same time another dinner guest joined our table.

Since Oriental was trying to keep up for Newbie, they were both pretty much ignoring us. We actually asked Grumpy for a refill of water and she said "Tell one of the others - they'll get it to you before I can." She spent most of her time sitting near the kitchen.

If others have encoutered Grumpy, please write Amtrak and tell them to get rid of this person sapping away at John Mica's $85M/year Dining car loss! They could have EASILY increased the revenue of the diner by a couple hundred dollars.

OH - and this was the first dinner out of Miami, and they were already out of "The Special"?

UGH.
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If you haven't already, pls. pass your impressions onto Amtrak. Miami crew base in last couple years has had a major emphasis (IMO) on removing "dead weight". They obviously missed a few...But feedback helps...
 
It's been a while but I have never been impressed with the staff from the Miami crew base.... The only ones worse are the crew out of DC (I'm

Talking about consistency here.... Train after train the DC crew is the slowest and laziest I've seen with very few exceptions). This sounds about right to me.... Glad to hear from OBS that they are trying to make changes in Miami.
 
Politically Correct said:
VentureForth said:
Then there was a young oriental SA who worked her butt off.
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I believe 'oriental' can be as offensive as the "N" word these days. "Asian" seems to be considered more appropriate.
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"Oriental" is merely referring to people from the "orient" which includes numerous races, cultures, and nations, some of which have enjoyed status at or near the top of the social, scientific, and political food chain for centuries. The term oriental is not intended or assumed to be offensive in and of itself. You could certainly say it's outdated and that it's associated with an era that was far less sophisticated than today, but calling it offensive on the same level as one of the most uniquely offensive words in the entire English dictionary is truly absurd.
 
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As an Asian person in my 20's I find the term Oriental offensive.
 
There's a huge gulf between you finding it offensive and "as offensive as the N word".

(and the fact that you've used "Oriental" and not "the O word" kind of lends credence to that)
 
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Politically Correct said:
As an Asian person in my 20's I find the term Oriental offensive.
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I live in Los Angeles where there is a huge Asian population. I grew up in the midst of the influx as well as with Nisei. No one takes offense at the use of "Oriental" but they generally prefer 'Asian". You ought to cool your jets. Try this definition: "The Orient means "the East". It is a traditional designation for anything that belongs to the Eastern world or the Near East or Far East, in relation to Europe. In English it is largely a metonym for, and coterminous with, the continent of Asia." Notice --- no connotation overt or implied. It is becoming slight archaic.
 
I just finished 2 trips on the Silver Meteor (northbound from ORL to WAS and southbound from WAS to ORL) and I found the dining car staff more than adequate. On my southbound trip, there was a server who seemed not to be happy he was there, but I had no problems with him. I have food allergies and I could be considered a "problem" diner because I ask loads of questions regarding the ingredients. Unfortunately, because all dinner entrees northbound and southbound contained garlic (to which I am allergic), I was unable to eat an entree. I dined on bread and water (just kidding - I had bread, salad and veggies northbound and I was able to include a baked potato southbound). The crew in both dining cars were very pleasant to me and as accommodating as they could be in the circumstances.

BTW, about 20 years ago or so, I was informed by a PC friend of mine that it was insensitive to refer to Asians as Orientals. I do my best to be PC, and refer to people of Asian descent as "Asians."
 
We just went to Atlanta from Charlottesville in late October. There's always the question of, does the Crescent serve dinner out of CVS? When we boarded at 8:52 pm (it was ontime), we inquired with the SCA and he told us that we were too late. My husband and I decided to walk down and just look -- the dining car was empty and all the employees were sitting there looking burned out for the day. We walked in and asked and they told us that they were waiting for us -- they knew we would be boarding in the sleeper and didn't know if we needed fed. We offered to take a meal to go to our room, but they seated us and told us that we could eat in the dining car. We did, and gave the server an extra large tip, and took our dessert to our room, we felt bad tying them up any longer, and also it was kinda weird to have so many sets of eyes on us, and us alone. :eek:
 
I got lots of crap for being "politically correct" here. Pay no attention to that lame type of thinking.

Normal usage now prefers Asian to Oriental, as it prefers Black, or African American, for "colored people". Never mind the ugliness.

Normal is subjective. Say what you want, and be seen as ignorant when you are.
 
When I was on the Crescent a few years ago the service was great. It was my first time on a long distance train and I walked back to the diner to find out how I make a reservation. The person told me if I want to eat right now, come on in and sit down. Nothing but excellant service.

As far as the PC discussion, I always find it funny my 96 year old grandma calls all asians "japs".
 
Coming from the UK, I tend to associate the term Asian specifically with people from the Indian subcontinent, including countries such as Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Nepal and Bangladesh as well India itself of course..

I associate Oriental more with China, Japan and the Southeastern part of Asia including Korea, Thailand, Vietnam etc.

I never realized one of those terms was offensive to anybody.
 
In my crowd (urban, educated, professional or academic, diverse), "oriental" is considered potentially offensive and therefore best avoided, but its casual use is considered not necessarily overtly racist, just ignorant.

Calling a Lakota or Ojibwa a "Native American" will often elicit a disgusted chuckle from members of that group, many of whom prefer to be called "Indian," or better, by their tribal names. They consider "Native American" an academic term invented by white professors. On the other hand, if you call a brown Canadian an "Indian," you might get yelled at. They prefer "native," or "member of the First Nations." Identity politics is ever-shifting. When whites are a minority in America (that's coming sooner rather than later), it will be interesting to see what they are called.
 
Henry Kisor said:
When whites are a minority in America (that's coming sooner rather than later), it will be interesting to see what they are called.
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Seeing the people who are obsessed with being offended on behalf of others are mostly White themselves, the problem will hopefully go away.
 
I don't use the term "Oriental" unless describing a rug, because I know it can be offensive, but why is it offensive?

To me, "Oriental" makes me think of beauty - the Orient region, jade, gorgeous colors and fabrics, beautiful sculpture, old religions, colorful food, etc. It's exotic.

How did such a beautiful term turn ugly? I'm genuinely curious.
 
Sorcha said:
How did such a beautiful term turn ugly? I'm genuinely curious.
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I don't have an answer - just my own hunch. And being Danish the perspective from here might be different than in the US.

But to me oriental has a flavour of "exotic" - including the colorfulness etc. but also with a meaning of foreign. Indeed the European obsession with arab and asian art and artifacts in the 19th century is known as "orientalism" - and is of course closely related to the height of colonialism.

So while it is indeed appropiate to refer to restaurants or carpets as oriental it at least to me somehow feels wrong to do so with people. I wouldn't describe it as outright derogatory, but you don't refer to fellow countrymen (or in my case family members) in a term that tastes of "foreign". And that's what oriental does - it sets people apart as not belonging.
 
OlympianHiawatha said:
I'd sure like to know what all this bluthering has to do with the Dining Car :unsure:
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Appearently, one of the dining car staff the OP was speaking of was, as benjibear's grandma says, a "J Word".
 
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Seems like the politest thing to do is just refer to someone by their job without any ethnic description- as that has no bearing on their work.
 
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