Devil's Advocate
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Source: http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/08/15/mitt-romney-interview/Mitt Romney said:
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Goodbye Federal Subsidy For Amtrak?
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Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
I don't think he'll actually do it. Besides, dosen't he need Congress approval? Ronald Reagan always said he would do it but he never did. I guess it was just for show.
NorthCoastHiawatha
OBS Chief
-"the Amtrak subsidy, the PBS subsidy, the subsidy for the National Endowment for the Arts, the National Endowment for the Humanities."
Thats what? 1 or 2% of the budget.
Thats what? 1 or 2% of the budget.
Ispolkom
Engineer
I doubt that it's a ten of a percent.
VentureForth
Engineer
Get rid of the post office first.
I will take bets that no one is going to shut down the national passenger rail system. Do you know how many people who work in Washington rely on it! Politicians, lawyers, news people. I can't see this happening. There would be pandemonium on the highways with all those extra people driving. Amtrak has survived while we only had two Democratic presidents in the last 30 years. Its not going to change if Mitt Romney is elected.
the_traveler
Engineer
FYI - I ordered 2 items recently over the Internet. One was sent by USPS from CA to RI, the other was sent by FedEx from Dallas. Both were the regular shipping option. I ordered the one from CA on Friday - it was in my box on Monday! The one shipped by FedEx took a week to go from TX to RI!VentureForth said:
So don't knock the Post Office!
If you're serious, consider that FedEx uses the Post Office for some of it's deliveries. See here for particulars.
JoeBas
Conductor
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It's not about how much of a percentage it is... it's about what that percentage does. :x
Joeker
Service Attendant
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I will take your bet. What will happen is maybe not a total shutdown, but a 15% reduction in the subsidies and the end of long distance trains as we know it.
What will survive are state funded corridors, NEC, and California rail
What will be up for grabs is some sort of lame brained privatization effort with existing freight rr and other operators of rail such as Veola, Virgin rail,
and others, that could bid on operationg any or all of the national network sans NEC.
These private operators would bid and of course receive some federal subsidies just as airlines now do to provide essential service to areas of the counry
that are underserved.
Keep in mind that the labor unions have helped to keep Amtrak alive for the last 40 years and their clout under the tea party regime would be nil.
What will survive are state funded corridors, NEC, and California rail
What will be up for grabs is some sort of lame brained privatization effort with existing freight rr and other operators of rail such as Veola, Virgin rail,
and others, that could bid on operationg any or all of the national network sans NEC.
These private operators would bid and of course receive some federal subsidies just as airlines now do to provide essential service to areas of the counry
that are underserved.
Keep in mind that the labor unions have helped to keep Amtrak alive for the last 40 years and their clout under the tea party regime would be nil.
The difference is that if Romney & Ryan are elected, there will presumably be a Republican controlled House and possibly a narrowly controlled Republican Senate. Many of these members would not be the Republicans of even 20 years ago, but much more conservative with a anti-public sector spending ideology for transportation except for roads, highways, more roads, and airports. The NEC won't get shut down, but most of the LD train network and some of the state supported corridor trains would be at high risk of getting shut down. State corridor services could get sideswiped in the loss of support structure with the loss of the LD system and major cuts in funding for Amtrak.
Romney has thrown his lot in with the Tea Party conservatives with the pick of Congressman Ryan as his running mate. Regardless of where one stands on the political issues, there will be a rather significant difference between the 2 major party Presidential candidates this fall. Elections do matter. (See Ohio, Florida, Wisconsin on the fate of recent passenger rail projects). For those who vote and want to keep riding LD and corridor trains outside of the NEC and the most supportive passenger rail states, the choice this fall is quite clear.
The Davy Crockett
Engineer
Regardless of who wins in the next elections, if Congress just does nothing from now until January 2 next, (Is this something this Congress is good at, or what?) Sequestration will force a hit to Amtrak's budget. :excl:
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If the Amtrak subsidy was ever eliminated, that would mean that Amtrak would have to raise their fares 50% or more. That would make the service completely non-competitive. No one would ride at those prices and the system would be shut down. Quite frankly I don't see that happening unless the private railroads agree to restart passenger service. That is a remote possiblily right now.
Its funny but we subsidize big oil, green energy companies, corn farmers, highways/roads, airports and museums at a substantially higher cost than the national passenger rail system. Amtrak always seems the easy target and that's because by being government owned, it puts no money in the greedy corrupt politicans pockets.
Its funny but we subsidize big oil, green energy companies, corn farmers, highways/roads, airports and museums at a substantially higher cost than the national passenger rail system. Amtrak always seems the easy target and that's because by being government owned, it puts no money in the greedy corrupt politicans pockets.
TimePeace
Disillusioned.
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Yes, but what brilliant cuts those will be. We in this great land should expect art and transportation to be available to us if we can pay for it ourselves. I for one am happy to see the trend in thinking that we are all better off simply by giving away what's left of our country to the richest people, they are so much better, smarter, and yes, more "entitled", than the rest of us. Bring on the cuts, gentlemen. We'll all be better off don't you think?
anir dendroica
OBS Chief
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The Republicans have gained a majority through a very uneasy alliance between big business and religious conservatives. We have somehow come to accept that reduced Wall Street taxes go hand in had with prohibitions on same-sex marriage, but in reality these positions have little common ground.
Romney, in my view, is firmly on the big business end of things. He got elected governor of a very blue state and signed a health care law very much like the one he is now campaigning against. Now he knows that to have any chance of being elected he needs Tea Party support, hence his choice of Ryan as a running mate and his adoption of the traditional Republican whipping boys, including Amtrak. But I don't think that Romney is personally anti-Amtrak in the same way as Bush was. Romney has seen the NEC and eastern LD network in action, moving millions of people a year. In Texas, on the other hand, loss of Amtrak would mean very little, and it's easy for Texas Republicans to see Amtrak as government spending their money on other people (i.e. "waste").
It appears to me that Romney's primary goal is to protect the capital of the wealthy. But to preserve the uneasy alliance with the Tea Party he will need to act on a few of his promises to them. I would not be surprised to hear lip service to discontinuation of the Amtrak subsidy, but I would be very surprised to see more than a small reduction or continuation of the status quo. While there are some vocal Amtrak opponents among the Republicans, there are also some staunch supporters at least when it comes to service to their home states. Witness the recent lobbying by John Hoeven and Rick Berg, both Republicans from ND, to get funding for the Devils Lake track raise to preserve Amtrak service to Grand Forks, Devils Lake, and Rugby.
Romney, in my view, is firmly on the big business end of things. He got elected governor of a very blue state and signed a health care law very much like the one he is now campaigning against. Now he knows that to have any chance of being elected he needs Tea Party support, hence his choice of Ryan as a running mate and his adoption of the traditional Republican whipping boys, including Amtrak. But I don't think that Romney is personally anti-Amtrak in the same way as Bush was. Romney has seen the NEC and eastern LD network in action, moving millions of people a year. In Texas, on the other hand, loss of Amtrak would mean very little, and it's easy for Texas Republicans to see Amtrak as government spending their money on other people (i.e. "waste").
It appears to me that Romney's primary goal is to protect the capital of the wealthy. But to preserve the uneasy alliance with the Tea Party he will need to act on a few of his promises to them. I would not be surprised to hear lip service to discontinuation of the Amtrak subsidy, but I would be very surprised to see more than a small reduction or continuation of the status quo. While there are some vocal Amtrak opponents among the Republicans, there are also some staunch supporters at least when it comes to service to their home states. Witness the recent lobbying by John Hoeven and Rick Berg, both Republicans from ND, to get funding for the Devils Lake track raise to preserve Amtrak service to Grand Forks, Devils Lake, and Rugby.
rusty spike
OBS Chief
Your sarcasm is noted. However, across-the-board cuts are not necessary.
What is necessary is cost-containment and control and re-prioritizing our national transportation subsidies. As a nation (and almost any state) we cannot afford to spend more money. Our national debt clock (at almost $16 Trillion) is climbing at the rate of almost $2 Million every minute of every day! Source usdebtclock.org
I mean surely Amtrak can find a way to cook a hamburger for less than $16. And we all know that the Amtrak subsidy is pigeon food compared to what the trucking (highway) and airlines receive. If everyone let their congressman know (writing, emails, phone) the importance of Amtrak, then we will accomplish more than "wringing our hands" on these forums.
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
I agree with Rusty Spike. Just because Amtrak should stay here dosen't mean they have to lose as money as they are losing. I think they should take a look at how money is being wasted during operations. Then we'll see how much Amtrak really "has" to lose. Guess those subsides are why Greyhound does far better than Amtrak despite very low fares.
This just sounds like someone's personal opinion of what is "needed" in this country. The entertainment industry makes billions of dollars a year, and guess what kind of degrees most people have in that field? Art degrees. (MFA, BFA, etc)
He should also cut the subsidies given to airlines (which are far pricier) and roads.
He should also cut the subsidies given to airlines (which are far pricier) and roads.
Ryan
Court Jester
Disagree. Please explain your reasoning. Running an economy that is the world's currency of record bears no resemblance to a household checkbook.
johnny.menhennet
Conductor
I don't know. Amtrak service has only grown over the last 5 years, while Greyhound has cut 50% of its routes or some high figure like that. They are not doing well at all, and Amtrak is finally enjoying an age of (relative) prosperity.
the_traveler
Engineer
As a further FYI to my post above, the shipment sent from TX by FedEx was TRUCKED to NH and then transferred to USPS for delivery!SP&S said:
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