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printman2000

Engineer
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
3,785
Location
Amarillo, Texas
I am already beginning to plan our next year's trip. I am considering San Fransisco.

I was hoping to not have to delve too deep into research since I am sure someone here knows, is the BART system and other rail in SF widespread enough where we would not need to rent a car?
 
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I'd say: "It depends." MUNI (SF's public transportation system) has pretty extensive service throughout the city and can get you you most places you'd want to go in the city. I have two relatives who live in the city and, like many other SFers, neither owns a car. That tells you something...

Now for a few considerations:

1) My relatives practice the time honored and city-wide sport of complaining about how bad MUNI has become - and that service use to be SO much better. On the other hand, I've heard this complaint from them, and other SFers, since at least the late 1970s.

2) Stay in SF itself, and not Emeryville. Emeryville is fine if all you want to do is have a place to sleep between trains, but other than the trains, there is very little to do and you'll have a much better time staying in the city.

3) If you plan on venturing out of the city, I'd rent a car for a day or two in downtown SF. While there are tours that go to places like Muir Woods, you'd be much better off renting a car and driving up State Highway 1. It is an amazingly pretty drive north of SF, and could easily be combined with a trip to Muir Woods, lunch in Stinson Beach, then visiting Pt. Reyes Natl. Seashore and returning to SF via Sir Francis Drake Highway.
 
The Davy Crockett said:
I'd say: "It depends." MUNI (SF's public transportation system) has pretty extensive service throughout the city and can get you you most places you'd want to go in the city. I have two relatives who live in the city and, like many other SFers, neither owns a car. That tells you something...

Now for a few considerations:

1) My relatives practice the time honored and city-wide sport of complaining about how bad MUNI has become - and that service use to be SO much better. On the other hand, I've heard this complaint from them, and other SFers, since at least the late 1970s.

2) Stay in SF itself, and not Emeryville. Emeryville is fine if all you want to do is have a place to sleep between trains, but other than the trains, there is very little to do and you'll have a much better time staying in the city.

3) If you plan on venturing out of the city, I'd rent a car for a day or two in downtown SF. While there are tours that go to places like Muir Woods, you'd be much better off renting a car and driving up State Highway 1. It is an amazingly pretty drive north of SF, and could easily be combined with a trip to Muir Woods, lunch in Stinson Beach, then visiting Pt. Reyes Natl. Seashore and returning to SF via Sir Francis Drake Highway.
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Where we stay will be highly dependent on price. I doubt anything that I want will be in our budget in town. I usually find my hotels near airports.
 
printman2000 said:
Where we stay will be highly dependent on price. I doubt anything that I want will be in our budget in town. I usually find my hotels near airports.
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The good news there is that BART goes to SFO. If you decide to stay near SFO and rent a car, look at Fox Rent-A-Car, as they often beat the price of the national chains. One note of caution, driving into SF during the AM rush ain't no fun.
 
printman2000 said:
Where we stay will be highly dependent on price. I doubt anything that I want will be in our budget in town. I usually find my hotels near airports.
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I'd strongly suggest reconsidering your budget, then.
SFO is not in San Francisco. Few of the airport hotels are transit convenient, and catching a late bus to get back would be unappetizing.

Do not rent a car to drive around San Francisco. We joke about tourists that do that, because you will spend more in parking than if you just took cabs everywhere.
 
sechs said:
printman2000 said:
Where we stay will be highly dependent on price. I doubt anything that I want will be in our budget in town. I usually find my hotels near airports.
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I'd strongly suggest reconsidering your budget, then.
SFO is not in San Francisco. Few of the airport hotels are transit convenient, and catching a late bus to get back would be unappetizing.

Do not rent a car to drive around San Francisco. We joke about tourists that do that, because you will spend more in parking than if you just took cabs everywhere.
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You might be surprised @ some of the deals you can make in San Francisco on hotels! Use kayak.com and you can compare all the various discount travel sites! Of course food etc. will be high especially downtown around the Tourist areas!! :help: Totally agree re DO NOT Drive in the City, Parking alone will Bankrupt you and the Hills will age you beyond your years! :lol: Between BART/Cable Cars and the Busses and Ferries you should be able to get around fine! Walking can be hard on the Hills of course! :lol:
 
A cheap motel room plus one day car rental equals a good hotel room in the city itself so you will probably not save any money by finding a low priced motel outside the city.

Normally at least one of the buses from the train in Emeryville will stop right in front of the Hyatt near Market Street.

We live in the city, have no car, and use Muni for everywhere in the city itself, Caltrain, BART, Golden Gate Transit, SamTrans, VTA, etc to get around the rest of the area. Get a good detailed map of the region, figure out where you want to go and then go to the web sites of these various transit agencies. I almost forgot, there are also ferries to various places around the bay. As a part of that: Ferries out of the Ferry Building are cheaper than those out of Pier 39. You get some excellent views of the bridges, Alcatraz, etc, depending upon which ferry run you take.

There are frequent trains between Emeryville and Sacramento. State supported. Look for Amtrak California.

All the transit agencies here have web sites that give you maps and schedules. Some are easier to navigate around than others.

For many of the Muni routes the service is frequent enough that there is no need to bother with the schedule. Just get the route map.

Market Street has about every form of public transit known to mankind.

Diesel bus (Muni)

Electric bus (Muni)

Streetcar (Muni) - mostly restored PCC cars, some from foreign places

Light Rail (Muni) one level down below street

BART two levels down below street

An aside: The BART tracks are not standard gauge, but wide gauge, 5'-6" to be exact, which is the same as Indian Railway Broad Gauge, although I would suspect that the people that chose the track gauge probably did not know that.

Parking in San Francisco: hard to find or expensive or both. the meter checkers are agressive and the fines are high. traffic is slow. route signage in the city is hard to find or non-existant.
 
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I don't live in San Francisco, but I've traveled there for vacation four times. I've stayed on Market Street, near Nob Hill, nearer to Chinatown, and at Fisherman's Wharf (last May). I've always relied on public transportation and it's been great. I think it would take longer to navigate and find parking with a rental car than to use the transit system. My favorite location was staying at Fisherman's Wharf. At least last year, the Radisson there had a special discount code that we saw advertised in the California Zephyr route guide. It was easy to book online, I reserved a AAA room rate and then put "TRAINS" or "TRAIN" or something similar into the discount code field. It was a truly great deal at a very nice hotel. It was really easy to catch the streetcar or the cable car from Fisherman's Wharf and there were also lots of buses (we took a bus to the Golden Gate bridge and it was easy and cheap).

If you are arriving on Amtrak via Emeryville, the connecting bus can drop you off at various points in the city. We were scheduled to be dropped off in Fisherman's Wharf, but the driver asked our specific hotel and let us out right at the hotel entrance. Talk about good service!

I'd suggest you stay in Fisherman's Wharf (geared toward tourists) or in the heart of the downtown, which is very walkable once you get used to hills. The airport is linked to downtown via the BART, but it is a long ride and then you'd have to wait for a hotel shuttle. It's worth some extra money to enjoy the real San Francisco experience. Have a great trip!
 
Just to be clear, I have no intention on renting a car.

Looking at hotel pricing has just about caused me to have a heart attack. The hotel cost plus the cost of four 3-day MUNI passports is gonna be a bundle.
 
printman2000 said:
Just to be clear, I have no intention on renting a car.

Looking at hotel pricing has just about caused me to have a heart attack. The hotel cost plus the cost of four 3-day MUNI passports is gonna be a bundle.
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Maybe you could stay with George - he might like the company. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Twice when I went there I got good deals using Priceline (around $60 a night for well-known 3 star hotels). The drawback to naming your own price is that although you can limit the search to a specific area like downtown or the Wharf, you can't be sure of exactly where you'll be. You also won't earn any airline miles or Amtrak points and you can't change or cancel the reservation. But if price is a big concern, it might be an option to consider.
 
trainplane1974 said:
Twice when I went there I got good deals using Priceline (around $60 a night for well-known 3 star hotels). The drawback to naming your own price is that although you can limit the search to a specific area like downtown or the Wharf, you can't be sure of exactly where you'll be. You also won't earn any airline miles or Amtrak points and you can't change or cancel the reservation. But if price is a big concern, it might be an option to consider.
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Seems the drawback to name your own price is it is only guaranteed to have room for two adults. We are a family of four.
 
printman2000 said:
In fact, for four nights, the hotel is going to end up costing us more than Amtrak round trip!
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Aloha

When I went to SF to be part of the OTOL NOCAL RAILFEST I stayed at the Jack London Inn in Oakland and used the ferry to meet with the others. Their room price was about half of the prices in SF. The Staff were nice and the rooms were typical of a Holiday Inn. If I go back to the same area I would stay there again. The Square in front of the hotel is nice, and Trains pass through the square, Enjoyable to see and hear. I would not venture more than a couple of blocks to the rear of the hotel as the area deteriorates quickly.
 
I've been to the Bay Area twice and have not needed a car. If you want to stay ("remain", not "overnight") in the city, the public transit will get you where you need to go.

My first trip, I stayed in the Tenderloin, between Montgomery and Civic Center BART stations. There were lots of homeless people, but I never felt unsafe. The next time, I stayed in Berkeley. BART is pretty quick, so you don't need to stay right downtown.

I generally use Hotels.com, which has a map feature. Based on what I want to see, I try and pick a neighborhood central to that to start with. If I can't find any reasonably priced hotels there, I start looking near rail stops. I've been to plenty of cities in recent years, and I've never rented a car in any of them with rail systems.
 
George Harris said:
A cheap motel room plus one day car rental equals a good hotel room in the city itself so you will probably not save any money by finding a low priced motel outside the city.

Normally at least one of the buses from the train in Emeryville will stop right in front of the Hyatt near Market Street.

We live in the city, have no car, and use Muni for everywhere in the city itself, Caltrain, BART, Golden Gate Transit, SamTrans, VTA, etc to get around the rest of the area. Get a good detailed map of the region, figure out where you want to go and then go to the web sites of these various transit agencies. I almost forgot, there are also ferries to various places around the bay. As a part of that: Ferries out of the Ferry Building are cheaper than those out of Pier 39. You get some excellent views of the bridges, Alcatraz, etc, depending upon which ferry run you take.

There are frequent trains between Emeryville and Sacramento. State supported. Look for Amtrak California.

All the transit agencies here have web sites that give you maps and schedules. Some are easier to navigate around than others.

For many of the Muni routes the service is frequent enough that there is no need to bother with the schedule. Just get the route map.

Market Street has about every form of public transit known to mankind.

Diesel bus (Muni)

Electric bus (Muni)

Streetcar (Muni) - mostly restored PCC cars, some from foreign places

Light Rail (Muni) one level down below street

BART two levels down below street

An aside: The BART tracks are not standard gauge, but wide gauge, 5'-6" to be exact, which is the same as Indian Railway Broad Gauge, although I would suspect that the people that chose the track gauge probably did not know that.

Parking in San Francisco: hard to find or expensive or both. the meter checkers are agressive and the fines are high. traffic is slow. route signage in the city is hard to find or non-existant.
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Aside from the freeways, there are only two signed routes in San Francisco: US 101 between the Golden Gate Bridge and its freeway sections, and CA 1 (though I believe parts of it may be closed for construction). There are also some signed "Scenic Drives." Otherwise, signed routes are going to be non-existent.

Most of the SF Muni system is bus, though there may be places that you will want to go accessible by rail—either cable cars, streetcars (which are not the same as the cable cars), light rail, or BART. I believe cable cars, though operated by SF Muni, require a separate (much more expensive) ticket. However, you can get an all-day pass (called All-Day Passport) for $14 from the conductor of your cable car. Click here for more details.
 
We have stayed at Pacifica a few times, there is a Holiday Inn express and Best Western there right on the beach, lots cheaper than in town, there is a bus that stops a few minutes walk from the hotels that takes you to Daly City Bart, although not sure how late they run in the evening, and if you have a car, parking is free, rather than the rather silly rates they charge in the city.

It is a little way out of the city, but not that far, plus you have the sea and beach to soothe your troubles and woes away!
 
DET63 said:
I believe cable cars, though operated by SF Muni, require a separate (much more expensive) ticket. However, you can get an all-day pass (called All-Day Passport) for $14 from the conductor of your cable car. Click here for more details.
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printman2000 already mentioned plans to get 3-day Muni passports -- those are good on cable cars. (And Muni booths that sell them just happen to be located at two of the cable car termini: Market & Powell, and Hyde & Beach.)

I like the Muni passports because you get to have fun right after you buy them, scratching off the dates for which they'll be valid. It's like a lottery ticket, only with a better expected return. I assume they'll be switching passports to the Clipper card at some point soon -- probably easier for everyone including Muni personnel (for one thing, they won't have to manually open the gates at the underground light rail stations), but a little sad.
 
Have you looked for hotels out of Downtown but near a BART station? BART covers pretty far, if you don't mind a long ride you can stay in Dublin/Pleasanton or Richmond or Union City or Fremont or SFO. The transit system in CA can rival that of the Northeast, IMO. No 24/7 subway service, but a much better bus network.

That's what I did when I went to DC, found a pretty good priced hotel by the Dunn Loring WMATA station.
 
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Train2104 said:
Have you looked for hotels out of Downtown but near a BART station? BART covers pretty far, if you don't mind a long ride you can stay in Dublin/Pleasanton or Richmond or Union City or Fremont or SFO. The transit system in CA can rival that of the Northeast, IMO. No 24/7 subway service, but a much better bus network.

That's what I did when I went to DC, found a pretty good priced hotel by the Dunn Loring WMATA station.
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BART seems pretty expensive and does not offer passes (that I can see). From Union City to Embarcardero would cost us around $28 round trip. It also means not going to the hotel except for overnight. I think I would rather have that cost in the price of a more convenient hotel.
 
Train2104 said:
Have you looked for hotels out of Downtown but near a BART station? BART covers pretty far, if you don't mind a long ride you can stay in Dublin/Pleasanton or Richmond or Union City or Fremont or SFO. The transit system in CA can rival that of the Northeast, IMO. No 24/7 subway service, but a much better bus network.

That's what I did when I went to DC, found a pretty good priced hotel by the Dunn Loring WMATA station.
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There aren't any hotels walking distance from the Union City BART station (I used to live there). To get from Union City BART to the closest hotel would involve a bus ride on UC Transit which does not run all night.

To the OP, if you went this route while you're right BART doesn't sell passes (weekly or monthly, etc.) they do sell the "BART Plus" card which is good on most local buses but are not good on Muni cable cars in SF.

Something to consider as well is that prices in San Francisco are on par or greater than in New York City. Your best bets are either to see what you can get on Priceline in SF itself or reconsidering the budget as another poster suggested.
 
printman2000 said:
I realize this is an old thread I started last year, but our trip to SF is coming up next month. I had started a new thread concerning a MUNI pass but have not gotten many views. I was hoping some people from this thread could help me out.

The thread is at http://discuss.amtra...080#entry368080

Thanks
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when in san francisco check out haight ashbury,

if u visit berkeley go to telegraph ave next to the u.c berkeley campus''

there are all kind's of headshop's and coffee shop's
 
Things have really gotten a lot easier when it comes to moving between modes of transit in the SF Bay Area. Get a CLIPPER card. It is a flashpass-type of system that uses an RFID card that you tap either at a fare gate (like on BART or the subway portions of MUNI) or on validators aboard the bus coach, train or ferry boat (like CalTrain, SFMUNI, ACTransit, VTA, SamTrans, and Golden Gate Transit.) You normally have to pay a small fee to get the card ($5) but for a limited time they are "giving" them away for free. Keep the card for life, it is designed to be re-loadable.

The only downside from a tourist point of view is: Cable Cars don't have Clipper validators and as such are not included.

If you only intend on staying in San Francisco proper, a MUNI pass would probably be the best bet. But if you have any inclination on seeing more of the Bay Area, go Clipper. Take CalTrain to San Jose! Take the ferry to Marin! BART to Pleasanton! The options are rather huge at that point.
 

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