Extra Sleepers on the TE

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Bob Dylan

Bob Dylan

50+ Year Amtrak Rider
AU Supporting Member
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Todays NB TE#22 from SAS-CHI had THREE Sleepers, ^_^ All Full!, in the Consist, This is the first Time I have EVER Seen this on this Route, I have taken this Particular Train probably 200+ Times!)We were told that no Breakfast or Lunch would be available in the Diner for Coach Passengers due to the Crowding and the fact that the TE uses a CCC :( instead of a Regular Diner! :eek:

Perhaps with the CZ and the EB being Shut Down so Often, and the SWC Running SOLD OUT Most Days, Amtrak Decided to Run Extra Sleepers to LAX from CHI! If so, Good Thinking by someone in the Suits! :)
 
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I hope your are correct, but not betting the farm on it. Kudos if they did it because they had "excess" equipment due to CANX trains. Hope it just wasn't an already scheduled group or pre-planned.

Keep checking the consists and let us know Big Jim.......
 
It was pre planned for a group. So don't expect to see a permanant extra sleeper on the Eagle.

I hope your are correct, but not betting the farm on it. Kudos if they did it because they had "excess" equipment due to CANX trains. Hope it just wasn't an already scheduled group or pre-planned.
Click to expand...
 
The problem with running the extra cars around the system on other trains is that when there's a green light to restore service, your equipment is in all the wrong places and the service restoration has to wait even longer to get the equipment repositioned back where it's supposed to be.

Sucks, and if it were a definite "This train isn't going to run for a week" you could plan for it, but given the fluidity of the situation (no pun intended), the equipment has to be in position to go whenever the tracks are opened back up.
 
Ryan said:
The problem with running the extra cars around the system on other trains is that when there's a green light to restore service, your equipment is in all the wrong places and the service restoration has to wait even longer to get the equipment repositioned back where it's supposed to be.

Sucks, and if it were a definite "This train isn't going to run for a week" you could plan for it, but given the fluidity of the situation (no pun intended), the equipment has to be in position to go whenever the tracks are opened back up.
Click to expand...
I guess, with the paucity of equipment that Amtrak has, they have to be ready if the line opens up. But I think the mgmt mentality is so far to the "let's play it safe" side, that they rarely even consider this type of operation. Even if they only took a couple of extra sleepers, for a few days... Ahhhh what am I thinking. "Run Amtrak like a private business?" The horror.
Savvy business operators and CEO's take calculated risks from time to time, if the downside is not so bad. I don't see a horrible downside in this. So you pluck a couple of sleepers from the CZ, put them on the Chief, then get word from the RR that the CZ is "Back In Operation" . Would Amtrak not have a couple of sleepers on "protect duty" to cover a couple of days? And what's the WORST case if they can't cover the sleepers on the CZ?

From a PAX perspective, your not too bad off, cause (I would think) that those ticketed for the CZ would have (should have) been notified of a potential CANX, and you are adding X rooms in a busy sold out summer on the Chief.

No, no, that's far too risky, and might upset someone. Might even make sense. That "box" that Amtrak mgmt is STUCK in get's smaller every year. Just hire more attorneys Amtrak, that'll do the trick.....
 
saxman said:
It was pre planned for a group. So don't expect to see a permanant extra sleeper on the Eagle.

I hope your are correct, but not betting the farm on it. Kudos if they did it because they had "excess" equipment due to CANX trains. Hope it just wasn't an already scheduled group or pre-planned.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
:hi: Thanks Chris! I Understand the Point about Not being able to do Long Term Sharing of Sleepers, but since the SWC and TE both go to California (LAX), and the CS is Usually "Sold Out" in the Summer, why not run a Couple of Extra Sleepers (come to think of it Coaches too!They have been Selling Out Most Days!)on the SWC and TE/SSL until the Zephyr and Builders are Running again?? It's not that much of problem to run them up the Coast, either on the CS or even a San Joaquin Train or Deadhead the Cars from LAX Overnite if needed in EMY or on the SWC back to CHI! The same thing could be done on the Cap Ltd. since it too is Selling Out on a Daily Basis! Glad Im not in CHI trying to get to the West Coast any time soon!! :excl: :excl: :excl: :help:
 
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rrdude said:
Ryan said:
The problem with running the extra cars around the system on other trains is that when there's a green light to restore service, your equipment is in all the wrong places and the service restoration has to wait even longer to get the equipment repositioned back where it's supposed to be.

Sucks, and if it were a definite "This train isn't going to run for a week" you could plan for it, but given the fluidity of the situation (no pun intended), the equipment has to be in position to go whenever the tracks are opened back up.
Click to expand...
I guess, with the paucity of equipment that Amtrak has, they have to be ready if the line opens up. But I think the mgmt mentality is so far to the "let's play it safe" side, that they rarely even consider this type of operation. Even if they only took a couple of extra sleepers, for a few days... Ahhhh what am I thinking. "Run Amtrak like a private business?" The horror.
Savvy business operators and CEO's take calculated risks from time to time, if the downside is not so bad. I don't see a horrible downside in this. So you pluck a couple of sleepers from the CZ, put them on the Chief, then get word from the RR that the CZ is "Back In Operation" . Would Amtrak not have a couple of sleepers on "protect duty" to cover a couple of days? And what's the WORST case if they can't cover the sleepers on the CZ?

From a PAX perspective, your not too bad off, cause (I would think) that those ticketed for the CZ would have (should have) been notified of a potential CANX, and you are adding X rooms in a busy sold out summer on the Chief.

No, no, that's far too risky, and might upset someone. Might even make sense. That "box" that Amtrak mgmt is STUCK in get's smaller every year. Just hire more attorneys Amtrak, that'll do the trick.....
Click to expand...
Someone on the "A_A" yahoo group just said that #3 would be running out of Chicago with an extra coach, so maybe someone is "thinking outside the box" at least in a limited manner and adding some capacity where it's possible to not jeopardize a timely return to service when the tracks reopen. :D
 
Ryan said:
rrdude said:
Ryan said:
The problem with running the extra cars around the system on other trains is that when there's a green light to restore service, your equipment is in all the wrong places and the service restoration has to wait even longer to get the equipment repositioned back where it's supposed to be.

Sucks, and if it were a definite "This train isn't going to run for a week" you could plan for it, but given the fluidity of the situation (no pun intended), the equipment has to be in position to go whenever the tracks are opened back up.
Click to expand...
I guess, with the paucity of equipment that Amtrak has, they have to be ready if the line opens up. But I think the mgmt mentality is so far to the "let's play it safe" side, that they rarely even consider this type of operation. Even if they only took a couple of extra sleepers, for a few days... Ahhhh what am I thinking. "Run Amtrak like a private business?" The horror.
Savvy business operators and CEO's take calculated risks from time to time, if the downside is not so bad. I don't see a horrible downside in this. So you pluck a couple of sleepers from the CZ, put them on the Chief, then get word from the RR that the CZ is "Back In Operation" . Would Amtrak not have a couple of sleepers on "protect duty" to cover a couple of days? And what's the WORST case if they can't cover the sleepers on the CZ?

From a PAX perspective, your not too bad off, cause (I would think) that those ticketed for the CZ would have (should have) been notified of a potential CANX, and you are adding X rooms in a busy sold out summer on the Chief.

No, no, that's far too risky, and might upset someone. Might even make sense. That "box" that Amtrak mgmt is STUCK in get's smaller every year. Just hire more attorneys Amtrak, that'll do the trick.....
Click to expand...
Someone on the "A_A" yahoo group just said that #3 would be running out of Chicago with an extra coach, so maybe someone is "thinking outside the box" at least in a limited manner and adding some capacity where it's possible to not jeopardize a timely return to service when the tracks reopen. :D
Click to expand...
Jerry,

IIRC, the SW Chief requires 6 trainsets, might be 5 I'm not sure and don't feel like doing the math. Adding even 1 sleeper means that Amtrak need 5 to 6 sleepers. During the summer peak, that would pretty much gobble up all the spares sitting in LA, Chicago, DC, and Seattle leaving no backup cars should an arriving train have a car that needs to be bad ordered. It's not like there are 20 spare Superliner sleepers just sitting around doing nothing.

And again, as has been pointed out, not only can they not pull the sleepers from the trains not running, even if they did it would barely be enough. The Zephyr is still using most of its sleepers on the runs from EMY to Denver. Only the Empire Builder's sleepers are totally idled right now. And they keep hoping to restart any day now, so they can't have those cars in transit when they get the go ahead from BNSF.
 
How much of the EB's traffic is "through traffic"? I know it's negligible on the CZ, but what about the EB? The reason I ask is that if traffic from CHI to the West Coast is low, this is an academic exercise. If it is substantial, though, then Amtrak might be well-advised to switch one car per consist over, offer to transfer folks a week out, and thereby at least save some of the fares. The biggest risk here is probably knock-on effects on the CS (already packed, etc.)...but it's probably a better choice than losing some of those high buckets.
 
Jim, just think :help: they might have to put the full diner back on...I wish it were so but the other side, as you well know, of the Screaming Eagle is the poverty train~ CONO~ oh well we can all hope for the best and ride with the rest! Tough that coach pax got skunked because the diner didn't pull in a dime in revenue unless someone ordered a drink or two; not something we would do. :lol: :lol: :cool:
 
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Someone on the "A_A" yahoo group just said that #3 would be running out of Chicago with an extra coach, so maybe someone is "thinking outside the box" at least in a limited manner and adding some capacity where it's possible to not jeopardize a timely return to service when the tracks reopen. :D

One could only hope that someone at Amtrak is till capable of 'thinking' at all.
 
AlanB said:
Ryan said:
rrdude said:
Ryan said:
The problem with running the extra cars around the system on other trains is that when there's a green light to restore service, your equipment is in all the wrong places and the service restoration has to wait even longer to get the equipment repositioned back where it's supposed to be.

Sucks, and if it were a definite "This train isn't going to run for a week" you could plan for it, but given the fluidity of the situation (no pun intended), the equipment has to be in position to go whenever the tracks are opened back up.
Click to expand...
I guess, with the paucity of equipment that Amtrak has, they have to be ready if the line opens up. But I think the mgmt mentality is so far to the "let's play it safe" side, that they rarely even consider this type of operation. Even if they only took a couple of extra sleepers, for a few days... Ahhhh what am I thinking. "Run Amtrak like a private business?" The horror.
Savvy business operators and CEO's take calculated risks from time to time, if the downside is not so bad. I don't see a horrible downside in this. So you pluck a couple of sleepers from the CZ, put them on the Chief, then get word from the RR that the CZ is "Back In Operation" . Would Amtrak not have a couple of sleepers on "protect duty" to cover a couple of days? And what's the WORST case if they can't cover the sleepers on the CZ?

From a PAX perspective, your not too bad off, cause (I would think) that those ticketed for the CZ would have (should have) been notified of a potential CANX, and you are adding X rooms in a busy sold out summer on the Chief.

No, no, that's far too risky, and might upset someone. Might even make sense. That "box" that Amtrak mgmt is STUCK in get's smaller every year. Just hire more attorneys Amtrak, that'll do the trick.....
Click to expand...
Someone on the "A_A" yahoo group just said that #3 would be running out of Chicago with an extra coach, so maybe someone is "thinking outside the box" at least in a limited manner and adding some capacity where it's possible to not jeopardize a timely return to service when the tracks reopen. :D
Click to expand...
Jerry,

IIRC, the SW Chief requires 6 trainsets, might be 5 I'm not sure and don't feel like doing the math. Adding even 1 sleeper means that Amtrak need 5 to 6 sleepers. During the summer peak, that would pretty much gobble up all the spares sitting in LA, Chicago, DC, and Seattle leaving no backup cars should an arriving train have a car that needs to be bad ordered. It's not like there are 20 spare Superliner sleepers just sitting around doing nothing.

And again, as has been pointed out, not only can they not pull the sleepers from the trains not running, even if they did it would barely be enough. The Zephyr is still using most of its sleepers on the runs from EMY to Denver. Only the Empire Builder's sleepers are totally idled right now. And they keep hoping to restart any day now, so they can't have those cars in transit when they get the go ahead from BNSF.
Click to expand...
Why is this so hard to understand?

And, you didn't even get into the personnel issues . . .
 
AlanB said:
Ryan said:
rrdude said:
Ryan said:
The problem with running the extra cars around the system on other trains is that when there's a green light to restore service, your equipment is in all the wrong places and the service restoration has to wait even longer to get the equipment repositioned back where it's supposed to be.

Sucks, and if it were a definite "This train isn't going to run for a week" you could plan for it, but given the fluidity of the situation (no pun intended), the equipment has to be in position to go whenever the tracks are opened back up.
Click to expand...
I guess, with the paucity of equipment that Amtrak has, they have to be ready if the line opens up. But I think the mgmt mentality is so far to the "let's play it safe" side, that they rarely even consider this type of operation. Even if they only took a couple of extra sleepers, for a few days... Ahhhh what am I thinking. "Run Amtrak like a private business?" The horror.
Savvy business operators and CEO's take calculated risks from time to time, if the downside is not so bad. I don't see a horrible downside in this. So you pluck a couple of sleepers from the CZ, put them on the Chief, then get word from the RR that the CZ is "Back In Operation" . Would Amtrak not have a couple of sleepers on "protect duty" to cover a couple of days? And what's the WORST case if they can't cover the sleepers on the CZ?

From a PAX perspective, your not too bad off, cause (I would think) that those ticketed for the CZ would have (should have) been notified of a potential CANX, and you are adding X rooms in a busy sold out summer on the Chief.

No, no, that's far too risky, and might upset someone. Might even make sense. That "box" that Amtrak mgmt is STUCK in get's smaller every year. Just hire more attorneys Amtrak, that'll do the trick.....
Click to expand...
Someone on the "A_A" yahoo group just said that #3 would be running out of Chicago with an extra coach, so maybe someone is "thinking outside the box" at least in a limited manner and adding some capacity where it's possible to not jeopardize a timely return to service when the tracks reopen. :D
Click to expand...
Jerry,

IIRC, the SW Chief requires 6 trainsets, might be 5 I'm not sure and don't feel like doing the math. Adding even 1 sleeper means that Amtrak need 5 to 6 sleepers. During the summer peak, that would pretty much gobble up all the spares sitting in LA, Chicago, DC, and Seattle leaving no backup cars should an arriving train have a car that needs to be bad ordered. It's not like there are 20 spare Superliner sleepers just sitting around doing nothing.

And again, as has been pointed out, not only can they not pull the sleepers from the trains not running, even if they did it would barely be enough. The Zephyr is still using most of its sleepers on the runs from EMY to Denver. Only the Empire Builder's sleepers are totally idled right now. And they keep hoping to restart any day now, so they can't have those cars in transit when they get the go ahead from BNSF.
Click to expand...

Alan, I certainly agree with your math, but there is no one is forcing them to put an extra sleeper on EVERY trainset. Heck, if they just put it on two, that's extra rev, what with summer's sold out trains.

IF they aren't used on the designated train, use em somewhere else. Even half of them. I know, call me "radical".
laugh.gif
 
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