Extra Car on the Cardinal

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Big Iron

Conductor
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
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Location
Virginia
Departing CUS on train 50 on 1/9/10 there was a horizon coach on the rear behind the sleeper. I've seen two coaches behind the sleeper in pictures/videos and assumed it was the cars for the Hoosier State. Shortly after departing from CUS I stepped back into the car to find it empty save for an extra board engineer deadheading to Indy. I talked with him a bit and he said the car was sent to Chicago for cleaning and was being returned to Indy. The car was not removed at Indy (a good thing..more later) and stayed, I assume, to DC or NYP. I got of the train in CVS.

I asked the conductor about the car and was it part of the Hoosier State, his response was they didn't add cars in CUS for the HS anymore as there was a big ditch in Indy where the tracks were that they used to switch off the cars and were unable to contiue to do so. We did do a backup move into the Indy station. Another conductor told me the car was needed in NYP and a crew member told me the car was needed in Florida??????? Any ideas where this horizon coach was going??

I'm glad the car remained as the toilets froze in the sleeper so it made a convenient restroom car (sleeper pax were told to use it). Also, since my roomette was on the wrong side of the train for the New River Gorge, I was able to view the scenery from my own private coach as no one was in there. Perhaps the highlight (and I'm setting myself up for a scolding) was standing in the open vestibule as the train went over the bridge at Hawk's Nest and under the New River Gorge bridge. The jointed rail sections of the route also sounded good standing outside. The tracks owned by the Buckingham Branch RR were rough as a corn cob.
 
Ah nothing like the Safety Patrol Special. It's not as fun as it was back in the day when you'd see a Superliner thrown in there.
 
Big Iron said:
Departing CUS on train 50 on 1/9/10 there was a horizon coach on the rear behind the sleeper. I've seen two coaches behind the sleeper in pictures/videos and assumed it was the cars for the Hoosier State. Shortly after departing from CUS I stepped back into the car to find it empty save for an extra board engineer deadheading to Indy. I talked with him a bit and he said the car was sent to Chicago for cleaning and was being returned to Indy. The car was not removed at Indy (a good thing..more later) and stayed, I assume, to DC or NYP. I got of the train in CVS.
I asked the conductor about the car and was it part of the Hoosier State, his response was they didn't add cars in CUS for the HS anymore as there was a big ditch in Indy where the tracks were that they used to switch off the cars and were unable to contiue to do so. We did do a backup move into the Indy station. Another conductor told me the car was needed in NYP and a crew member told me the car was needed in Florida??????? Any ideas where this horizon coach was going??

I'm glad the car remained as the toilets froze in the sleeper so it made a convenient restroom car (sleeper pax were told to use it). Also, since my roomette was on the wrong side of the train for the New River Gorge, I was able to view the scenery from my own private coach as no one was in there. Perhaps the highlight (and I'm setting myself up for a scolding) was standing in the open vestibule as the train went over the bridge at Hawk's Nest and under the New River Gorge bridge. The jointed rail sections of the route also sounded good standing outside. The tracks owned by the Buckingham Branch RR were rough as a corn cob.
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Just goes to show you that even employees don't know the answer to everything.
 
I read elsewhere of Horizons on the Capital Limited (which of course only goes to DC) as well so I would suspect the safety patrol is the answer.

What is the safety patrol? Not real sure but seems I recall some conference in DC where they bring train loads of people from maybe Florida. I may even recall they attach the extra cars to the Silver trains. None of that I am sure of though.
 
The safety patrol is typically 6th graders given some special training that enables them to help the younger kids in grammar school get safely across the street. One usually gets bright orange strap to indicate that you are a patroller and you are assigned a specific corner to guard before and after school.

Florida for years has sent some of their patrollers to DC as part of a reward/learning experience and has used Amtrak as the preferred means of travel.
 
AlanB said:
The safety patrol is typically 6th graders given some special training that enables them to help the younger kids in grammar school get safely across the street. One usually gets bright orange strap to indicate that you are a patroller and you are assigned a specific corner to guard before and after school.
Florida for years has sent some of their patrollers to DC as part of a reward/learning experience and has used Amtrak as the preferred means of travel.
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I would have never guessed that! :blink:

Thanks Alan.
 
When I was on the safety patrol in 4th grade, we got an orange sash and every day we showed up we got a little plastic badge to put on the sash. At the end of the week we got a candy bar instead of the 5th badge. And that was it-- some people got a $250 scholarship/savings bond at the end of the year but about 90% of us didn't.
 
AlanB said:
The safety patrol is typically 6th graders given some special training that enables them to help the younger kids in grammar school get safely across the street. One usually gets bright orange strap to indicate that you are a patroller and you are assigned a specific corner to guard before and after school.
Florida for years has sent some of their patrollers to DC as part of a reward/learning experience and has used Amtrak as the preferred means of travel.
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West Palm Beach pays Amtrak to have special Student Train and it carrys 25 cars with its own doctor and police on the train. Video of this can be found at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6qY1Dk3eHY
 
I'm sure I've got video somewhere of the Safety Patrol Special from 04, but I'm sure it's on VHS somewhere, which doesn't translate to YouTube very well. Back in the day, the schedule and consist was:

Northbound:

830 Depart Miami

1025 arrive West Palm

1130 depart West Palm

1830 arrive JAX

1855 depart JAX

2110 arrive SAV

2140 depart SAV

200 arrive FLO

205 depart FLO

715 arrive RVR

730 depart RVR

930 arrive WAS

Southbound:

1600 depart WAS

1815 arrive RVR

1830 depart RVR

2340 arrive FLO

2345 depart FLO

345 arrive SAV

415 depart SAV

630 arrive JAX

655 depart JAX

1415 arrive West Palm

1430 depart West Palm

1630 arrive Miami

Consist time.

2 P-42's Elephant style

8 Horizon coaches (Girls Coaches)

43362 Table Car

1 Viewliner (for dignitaries and special passengers)

8 Horizon coaches (Boys coaches)

1 Michigan coach (Boys coach)

and bringin up the rear 1 Superliner TransDorm for Amtrak crew members

Now, back in those days it was its own train. In recent years since January is so slow for Amtrak they've been taking 98's consist on the day the special runs and just tacking the Horizons on the bottom. Once they get to DC the Horizons are whacked off and the equipment and OBS is deadheaded to NYP for its normal rotation IIRC.
 
As a follow up to this topic, apparently not all of the Horizons coming east are for the Safety Patrol Special. At least two have made their way onto the Vermonter (one on each set). They are making this coach the middle coach of the train (five cars including cafe, so it's the center car on the train). Apparently during the winter in the bitter Vermont cold there are issues with the doors freezing close. Since some of the Horizons have the manual dutch doors these are much more suitable to making sure you're going to have a working door than the Amfleet I's. I don't know if more cars will be switched out, or if just the center coach will be Horizon. But that's what I know.
 
battalion51 said:
As a follow up to this topic, apparently not all of the Horizons coming east are for the Safety Patrol Special. At least two have made their way onto the Vermonter (one on each set). They are making this coach the middle coach of the train (five cars including cafe, so it's the center car on the train). Apparently during the winter in the bitter Vermont cold there are issues with the doors freezing close. Since some of the Horizons have the manual dutch doors these are much more suitable to making sure you're going to have a working door than the Amfleet I's. I don't know if more cars will be switched out, or if just the center coach will be Horizon. But that's what I know.
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That makes no sense. The Horizons are dangerous in winter due to their exposed steps.
 
Well if you have a choice between being able to open the door and not being able to open the door or having exposed steps which of these problems sounds like the better to deal with?
 
Right. So, apparently they figured out that it wasn't working out so well, thus the change. The crews have been begging for this for years and they got their wish. And if the Amfleets are working then they just use one of those, they're not forced to use the Horizon car.
 
battalion51 said:
Right. So, apparently they figured out that it wasn't working out so well, thus the change. The crews have been begging for this for years and they got their wish. And if the Amfleets are working then they just use one of those, they're not forced to use the Horizon car.
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How does this work at all the stops south of New Haven? Do the Horizon car doors just not open?

With the addition of this Horizon, I'd have to vote the Vermonter as one of the strangest looking Amtrak consists around (at least north of NHV). A P42 on each end and a Horizon car sandwiched in the middle...
 
I don't know to be perfectly honest how the corridor boys are handling it. I'm sure it's definitely out of the norm for them. You still have at least one door that will open at each door set since you have an Amfleet on either side of the Horizon. Tape up signs that say use next door?
 
How do Canadians, Russians, Scandinavians, northern Europeans and operators of other train systems in parts of the world with sometimes (often? usually?) severe winters deal with issues like these (slippery steps, equipment that doesn't function as well in the cold, etc.)?
 
I think most trains in those countries use manual doors and either have all high-level platforms or use the sliding-door stair cover like NJTransit uses on their cars.

The Amfleets condition relative to the rest of the fleet sometimes makes us forget that they are 34 years old and a 45 year old design. And the design itself was not designed with low-level operation in mind. The Metroliners were not designed for low-platform use. The SPV2000s had fixed stairs. The folding stair concept is an aerodynamic aid not generally used in Europe.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall that all British stations are hi-platfrom and so are most others.
 
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