The Coast Daylight

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Guest_TransAtlantic_*

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Nothing confirmed yet, at least for public consumption, but Amtrak is proposing an extension to the current Surfliner trains 799/798, to continue beyond SLO and run right up the peninsula to San Francisco. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, plans are afoot to restore the former "Coast Daylight"!!! (This comes from Amtrak management, BTW...)
 
Guest_TransAtlantic_* said:
Nothing confirmed yet, at least for public consumption, but Amtrak is proposing an extension to the current Surfliner trains 799/798, to continue beyond SLO and run right up the peninsula to San Francisco. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, plans are afoot to restore the former "Coast Daylight"!!! (This comes from Amtrak management, BTW...)
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Wonder if the Starlite will change schedule so it gets into the Bay Area in daylight, wouldnt this be a better idea?
 
jimhudson said:
Guest_TransAtlantic_* said:
Nothing confirmed yet, at least for public consumption, but Amtrak is proposing an extension to the current Surfliner trains 799/798, to continue beyond SLO and run right up the peninsula to San Francisco. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, plans are afoot to restore the former "Coast Daylight"!!! (This comes from Amtrak management, BTW...)
Click to expand...
Wonder if the Starlite will change schedule so it gets into the Bay Area in daylight, wouldnt this be a better idea?
Click to expand...
Unless padding were taken out of the schedule, CS #14 would have to leave LAX quite a bit earlier to get into the Bay Area before dark. That would nix its connection with SL #1, unless its schedule was also adjusted to maintain the connection.
 
DET63 said:
jimhudson said:
Guest_TransAtlantic_* said:
Nothing confirmed yet, at least for public consumption, but Amtrak is proposing an extension to the current Surfliner trains 799/798, to continue beyond SLO and run right up the peninsula to San Francisco. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, plans are afoot to restore the former "Coast Daylight"!!! (This comes from Amtrak management, BTW...)
Click to expand...
Wonder if the Starlite will change schedule so it gets into the Bay Area in daylight, wouldnt this be a better idea?
Click to expand...
Unless padding were taken out of the schedule, CS #14 would have to leave LAX quite a bit earlier to get into the Bay Area before dark. That would nix its connection with SL #1, unless its schedule was also adjusted to maintain the connection.
Click to expand...
From what I understand, the Starlight's times would not change.

Also, this has been Caltrans' long-term plan for a long time. The numbers themselves, as well as the current schedule, tell the story. SP Coast Daylight 98/99. Surfliner 798/799. Coincidence? Probably not. Look at the schedule as well. It replicates the classic schedule of SP 98/99 pretty closely.

This is more of a state initiative, on 403(b) state supported trains, not really an Amtrak initiative, although Amtrak would be involved in planning and implementation. I doubt it will happen until California comes out from under the cloud of financial doom it is currently under, and it has been on the boards for a long time. These aren't "national system" trains. If Caltrans wants them, they pay.

So I wouldn't get too excited about it.

The connection between 1 and 14 is not a guaranteed connection. Since UP has improved its handling of Amtrak in general, 1 usually makes it with a lot of time to spare. But 9:40 to 10:15 is not guaranteed. There generally has to be at least an hour for a guaranteed connection outside the NEC. It was a guaranteed connection when the Sunset was running on its more customary schedule, with arrival around 7am -- but for quite awhile, it never made it. In my own personal opinion, a small part of the not-so-new, heavily padded Sunset schedule was to deliberately break that guarantee. They were paying a lot when it virtually never made it.

An earlier Starlight departure would likely break the guaranteed connection between 3 and 14, though.
 
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That could be an interesting route, but the Coast Starlight takes it's own sweet time to get from LA to Oakland/Emeryville, almost 12 hours grinding along rough but scenic track. The San Joaquin takes about 8 hours, even with a 2 hour bus leg into LA form Bakersfield and going by way of Sacramento. Personally, I'd take the Daylight but 12 hours to LA has been a hard sell for others.
 
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It would be nice to book a one-seat trip from LAX into downtown SFO. I know it would probably make it a little more appealing for some people to vacation or do a work/vacation in SFO. But agreed, it's a tough sell for the average consumer. Probably still attract mostly leisure and vacation travelers, and others wanting to see some of California on the way. I wonder if flipping the schedule 12 hours and making it a revived "Lark" might make it a bit more appealing to business travelers wanting to leave after dinner and get in the next morning in time for a meeting? It would have to be a heavily subsidized ticket to compete with the likes of Southwest which has the LA-SF markets pretty cornered.
 
zephyr17 said:
SP Coast Daylight 98/99. Surfliner 798/799. Coincidence? Probably not.
Click to expand...
No coincidence. During a train 11 ride, OKJ-OXN, during the Starlight "relaunch," I had the opportunity to meet and talk at length with an Amtrak "brand manager" who was riding to see how the relaunch was progressing. The guy expedited my onboard upgrade at San Jose and agreed to an on-the-record interview in the Pacific Parlour Car.

After Salinas we talked at length. Among other things the guy noted that the Pacific Surfliner train numbers 798/799 were selected with an eye to a restored Daylight. I didn't think to ask about a renewed Lark. IIRC there was also an SP overnight run called the Owl.
 
zephyr17 said:
DET63 said:
jimhudson said:
Guest_TransAtlantic_* said:
Nothing confirmed yet, at least for public consumption, but Amtrak is proposing an extension to the current Surfliner trains 799/798, to continue beyond SLO and run right up the peninsula to San Francisco. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, plans are afoot to restore the former "Coast Daylight"!!! (This comes from Amtrak management, BTW...)
Click to expand...
Wonder if the Starlite will change schedule so it gets into the Bay Area in daylight, wouldnt this be a better idea?
Click to expand...
Unless padding were taken out of the schedule, CS #14 would have to leave LAX quite a bit earlier to get into the Bay Area before dark. That would nix its connection with SL #1, unless its schedule was also adjusted to maintain the connection.
Click to expand...
From what I understand, the Starlight's times would not change.

Also, this has been Caltrans' long-term plan for a long time. The numbers themselves, as well as the current schedule, tell the story. SP Coast Daylight 98/99. Surfliner 798/799. Coincidence? Probably not. Look at the schedule as well. It replicates the classic schedule of SP 98/99 pretty closely.

This is more of a state initiative, on 403(b) state supported trains, not really an Amtrak initiative, although Amtrak would be involved in planning and implementation. I doubt it will happen until California comes out from under the cloud of financial doom it is currently under, and it has been on the boards for a long time. These aren't "national system" trains. If Caltrans wants them, they pay.

So I wouldn't get too excited about it.

The connection between 1 and 14 is not a guaranteed connection. Since UP has improved its handling of Amtrak in general, 1 usually makes it with a lot of time to spare. But 9:40 to 10:15 is not guaranteed. There generally has to be at least an hour for a guaranteed connection outside the NEC. It was a guaranteed connection when the Sunset was running on its more customary schedule, with arrival around 7am -- but for quite awhile, it never made it. In my own personal opinion, a small part of the not-so-new, heavily padded Sunset schedule was to deliberately break that guarantee. They were paying a lot when it virtually never made it.

An earlier Starlight departure would likely break the guaranteed connection between 3 and 14, though.
Click to expand...
Since the SL will get a new arrival time of 8:40am into LAX with the Fall schedule change, this will now be a guaranteed connection. There is still no connection from the SB Starlight to the EB Sunset.
 
WhoozOn1st said:
zephyr17 said:
SP Coast Daylight 98/99. Surfliner 798/799. Coincidence? Probably not.
Click to expand...
No coincidence. During a train 11 ride, OKJ-OXN, during the Starlight "relaunch," I had the opportunity to meet and talk at length with an Amtrak "brand manager" who was riding to see how the relaunch was progressing. The guy expedited my onboard upgrade at San Jose and agreed to an on-the-record interview in the Pacific Parlour Car.

After Salinas we talked at length. Among other things the guy noted that the Pacific Surfliner train numbers 798/799 were selected with an eye to a restored Daylight. I didn't think to ask about a renewed Lark. IIRC there was also an SP overnight run called the Owl.
Click to expand...
Owl ran down the Westside Valley line via Los Banos, not the Coast.
 
There was an overnigth Oakland to Los Angeles train under Amtrak for a while. Do not recall exactly when or how long it lasted.

If it has reasonable westbound timekeeping, with one more trainset the CZ equipment, or part of it, could be run to make a good overnight from the Bay Area to LA.
 
George Harris said:
There was an overnigth Oakland to Los Angeles train under Amtrak for a while. Do not recall exactly when or how long it lasted.
If it has reasonable westbound timekeeping, with one more trainset the CZ equipment, or part of it, could be run to make a good overnight from the Bay Area to LA.
Click to expand...
That's a fantastic "out-of-the-box" idea! I would just hate to be on one of these trains after a major domino effect breakdown where a train has a significant delay in CA, then delays the Zephyer into Chicago, and delays the return snowballing into a canceled train. Yikes.

And there is the issue of Amtrak just running the wheels off its equipment. I'm sure with great maintenance it could run almost 24/7, but it's not getting that kind of servicing if I'm not mistaken...

Still we can dream I suppose. ;)
 
Rumpled said:
zephyr17 said:
Owl ran down the Westside Valley line via Los Banos, not the Coast.
Click to expand...
From Los Banos where did it go?

Would that go over Tehachapi or skirt back to the coast?

Just curious.
Click to expand...
Westside line tied back into to the Valley line just north of Fresno, then same route as the San Joaquin Daylight, Valley line to Bakersfield then over Tehachapi.
 
NativeSon5859 said:
Since the SL will get a new arrival time of 8:40am into LAX with the Fall schedule change, this will now be a guaranteed connection. There is still no connection from the SB Starlight to the EB Sunset.
Click to expand...
Just verified that by testing itineraries at Amtrak.com, so agree with that. How did you get the new sched? Not up at Amtrak.com to my knowldege.

Thanks.
 
The old proposals for the Coast Daylight I can find on the web all have some substantial track and signal upgrades included, which could speed things up a little bit, but it is still a long route. There really isn't a lot of population (by California standards) between Paso Robles and Salinas. This would be a good plan to increase or add service between the Bay area and Salinas and extend the Surfliners to Paso Robles with the added benefit of Bay area to LA service. For a one seat ride and no bus I'd put up with it! It could also generate some traffic to Pismo Beach, San Simeon, and Big Sur but new stops and connector buses would be needed.

Making an overnight run makes sense to me, but it's been so long since night trains existed in this country it would take a while for people to wrap their brains around the advantages. I can't see Caltrans wanting to run sleepers so it would probably be a night in a coach or business class seat.

The San Joaquin doesn't currently run an overnight service, but the bus legs to anywhere from Bakersfield are a dis-incentive.

Edit:

Caltrain service as far as Gilroy is pretty limited- I wonder what the ridership is like?
 
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pebbleworm said:
The San Joaquin doesn't currently run an overnight service, but the bus legs to anywhere from Bakersfield are a dis-incentive.
Click to expand...
They certainly have over-night busses. For example, Train arrives at Bakersfield at Midnight, then Bus to San Diego arrives around 5:30 AM. Likewise, late-night bus from San Diego, leaves LAX at about 1:30 AM, arrives Bakersfield in time for the early morning Train.
 
p&sr said:
pebbleworm said:
The San Joaquin doesn't currently run an overnight service, but the bus legs to anywhere from Bakersfield are a dis-incentive.
Click to expand...
They certainly have over-night busses. For example, Train arrives at Bakersfield at Midnight, then Bus to San Diego arrives around 5:30 AM. Likewise, late-night bus from San Diego, leaves LAX at about 1:30 AM, arrives Bakersfield in time for the early morning Train.
Click to expand...
There's nothing more exciting than the thought of traveling overnight in a bus! :D
 
There's nothing more exciting then spending any amount of time in Bakersfield :cool:
 
p&sr said:
Likewise, late-night bus, leaves LAX at about 1:30 AM, arrives Bakersfield in time for the early morning Train.
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Been there done that. A few years ago when we were attending special a college function with one son in Long Beach one evening and daughter of friend's college graduation the next day in Freson.

There were enough people dong this late night bus that there were two buses. connecting with the early morning train at Bakersfield. Later found that we could have caught the bus in Long Beach and not needed our son to drive us up to LAUS.
 
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Is there any chance that the Tehachapi Pass will ever be double-tracked? It's my understanding that it's a heavily used single-track line, precluding its use for regularly scheduled passenger service. Double-tracking might make such a service feasible, but are plans to build HSR likely to make it appear unnecessary?
 
Here is the reality for Tehachapi Grade:

The railroad climbs something like 3,600 feet between Bakersfield at milepost 312.9 and Summit Switch at milepost 362.4. That is 49 5 miles between points that are around 39 miles apart in a straight line. The grade starts gently right out of Bakersfield and goes above 1% at about milepost 318. At milepost 331 or thereabouts it goes above 2% and stays between 2.2% and 2.5% all the way to just short of Summit Switch. The speed limit drops to 30 mph at 330.6 and stays between 30 mph and 23 mph, with a short distance at 15 mph all the way to milepost 359.5. It really does not get that fast after this, with a number of restrictions resulting in little of the distance having limits above 35 ot 45 mph between the Summit and Palmdale at milepost 414.

In the 49.5 miles between Bakersfield and the summit, there are 28 miles of second main right now. In the 21 miles of single main on the worst of the grade, there are 6 sidings, all over one mile line and three of these over 1.5 miles long. It might be possible to connect some of these sidings to give additional sections of double track, but some area would probably need line changes to fit in another track.

When there was passenger service on this line, it was S-L-O-W. It is unlikely that it could be any faster now. Think something like 6 hours between LA and Bakersfield.
 
George Harris said:
There was an overnigth Oakland to Los Angeles train under Amtrak for a while. Do not recall exactly when or how long it lasted.
Click to expand...
It was called the "Spirit of California", it ran only in 1981 and 1982, less than a year, and was a 403(b) financed by the state.
 
Green Maned Lion said:
George Harris said:
There was an overnigth Oakland to Los Angeles train under Amtrak for a while. Do not recall exactly when or how long it lasted.
Click to expand...
It was called the "Spirit of California", it ran only in 1981 and 1982, less than a year, and was a 403(b) financed by the state.
Click to expand...
And it ran Los Angeles - Sacramento. It ran under train numbers 16 & 17 , I think. It only operated from October 1982 to September 30, 1983.

Extra points awarded for its informal nickname.
 
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zephyr17 said:
Green Maned Lion said:
George Harris said:
There was an overnigth Oakland to Los Angeles train under Amtrak for a while. Do not recall exactly when or how long it lasted.
Click to expand...
It was called the "Spirit of California", it ran only in 1981 and 1982, less than a year, and was a 403(b) financed by the state.
Click to expand...
And it ran Los Angeles - Sacramento. It ran under train numbers 16 & 17 , I think. It only operated from October 1982 to September 30, 1983.

Extra points awarded for its informal nickname.
Click to expand...
I give up, what was it's informal nickname?

Can I get points for knowing that Espee (phonetic spelling of SP)was the nickname for Southern Pacific Railroad?
 
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