Engines on Sunset Ltd./Bayou Canot accident

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NativeSon5859

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I know P40 #819, which only a week old, was in the consist. What about the two other locomotives? Anyone know their number?
 
819 was actually destined for Sanford for training for the Auto Train crews on the P-40 systems.
 
Thanks guys....lately for some reason I've been doing research on that accident. I found a very interesting article which was written by one of the conductors on the train....very compelling first hand account of the tragedy and heroism that took place that night.
 
It is also very worthwhile to go to the official NTSB accident report. It can be found by going to the icc historical accident reports on dotlibrary1.specialcollection.net/scripts/ws.dll?websearch&site=dot_railroads

Then go to 1993 and to AMTRAK. This was not really a railroad accident, but a inland marine navigation accident that caught a train.
 
******************* Near Seven Year Old Topic ******************************

Like Nativeson, I'm doing research about this tragic accident. The full NTSB report could be very helpful to me but it seems the link provided here is dead, anyone knows where I could find it?

In fact, I'd need it to know accurately how were placed the engines in the MU ? (Cab forward or not for the 262 and 312)
 
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The most interesting thing about this disaster is the problems this exposed in the marine navigation safety system. The tugboat had wandered into a non-navigable (!!!) river channel in the fog. The railroad bridge was missing a number of safety features which were routine for bridges over navigable rivers, but which seemed pointless for bridges over non-navigable rivers.

The main recommendations involved trying harder to make sure that tugboat crews knew where they were. Tugboat safety turned out to have been very lax.
 
That accident is exactly why I always rest my hand on the emergency window latch any time we go over the Mississippi or another large body of water. I cannot imagine being trapped like that. It's a horrific story.
 
Here is a screenshot taken from a TV doc that shows the 3 locomotives after the crash.

I have two certainties, the P40 and the second F40 (#312) were "cab forward". It is quite obvious for the Genesis and a +90% probability about the #312 regarding its attitude compared to the baggage car.

But what about the #262 ?

Did it keep its direction after crashing in the bank or did it make a 180° rotation ?

image.jpg
 
180 degree reversal according to the personal account linked earlier.
 
Hi,

Is it confirmed by this particular quote ?

Then the second unit flipped around and exploded.
Click to expand...
Sorry if my question may sound surprising but english is not my native language therefore it happens I miss the nuance of the vocabulary.
 
Nathanael said:
180 degree reversal according to the personal account linked earlier.
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This is pictoral to the enormous forces of energy involved, tonnage in the thousands exploding in all directions.

The scenes of former crewmember Gary Farmer's story in the link, seeing #819 buried nose first in the mud, hoping his engineer friends went quickly without anxiety and pain, and the sinking coach in which drowning passengers banged against the windows in vain, it hurts to read that. As does the sight of the tugboat crews' broken spirits. He wonders what sort of kind and merciful creator would allow such horrors to happen, a theme that many struggled with on 9/11, the Asian tsunami in 2004, and Chase, MD 1987.

Whenever I hear the loud blabermouth know it alls who profess 'you control all that's in your life, it's all up to you' has not pondered much about how the fickle finger of fate can cut in every now and then.
 
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Try this: http://ntl1.specialcollections/scripts/dll?websearch&site=dot_railroads

the go to 1993 then Amtrak. The report is titled RAR-94-01

The train was moving westbound by the compass, northbound by railroad mileposts. When looking at the sketch of the site you see milepost 657. Zero is at Louisville KY.

OK, tried the link as I put it in above and got nothing. Try this: http://specialcollection.dotlibrary.dot.gov/

Then go to I.C.C. Historical Railroad Investigation Reports (1911-1994), the go to 1993, then Amtrak
 
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I found a story a while back where a locomotive engineer came up with a plausible scenario about what was going on in the cab of 819 that fateful night. The three engineers were Michael D. Vinet, Ernest L. Hess, and Billy R. "BR" Hall. The engineer somehow concluded and/or figured out that it was Vinet who was at the controls at the time of the crash. One quote from the engineer: "In the final moments, I can imagine Vinet reaching in vain for the brake to try to stop the train as it catapaulted into the bayou". Very Sad.
 
bgiaquin said:
I found a story a while back where a locomotive engineer came up with a plausible scenario about what was going on in the cab of 819 that fateful night. The three engineers were Michael D. Vinet, Ernest L. Hess, and Billy R. "BR" Hall. The engineer somehow concluded and/or figured out that it was Vinet who was at the controls at the time of the crash. One quote from the engineer: "In the final moments, I can imagine Vinet reaching in vain for the brake to try to stop the train as it catapaulted into the bayou". Very Sad.
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From what I understand when they pull tapes, they can tell who's running by little things in the way they run the engine. Things like how they blow the horn, throttle/braking patterns, etc.
 
battalion51 said:
bgiaquin said:
I found a story a while back where a locomotive engineer came up with a plausible scenario about what was going on in the cab of 819 that fateful night. The three engineers were Michael D. Vinet, Ernest L. Hess, and Billy R. "BR" Hall. The engineer somehow concluded and/or figured out that it was Vinet who was at the controls at the time of the crash. One quote from the engineer: "In the final moments, I can imagine Vinet reaching in vain for the brake to try to stop the train as it catapaulted into the bayou". Very Sad.
Click to expand...
From what I understand when they pull tapes, they can tell who's running by little things in the way they run the engine. Things like how they blow the horn, throttle/braking patterns, etc.
Click to expand...
Ah yes thank you.
 
Of interest, here is the only known photo of P40 819 before the wreck. It was taken by Christopher Palmieri in New Orleans just days before.

amt819.jpg
 
X996 said:
Here is a screenshot taken from a TV doc that shows the 3 locomotives after the crash.

I have two certainties, the P40 and the second F40 (#312) were "cab forward". It is quite obvious for the Genesis and a +90% probability about the #312 regarding its attitude compared to the baggage car.

But what about the #262 ?

Did it keep its direction after crashing in the bank or did it make a 180° rotation ?
Click to expand...
That analysis matches this diagram from the NTSB report:

NTSB_Diagram_Big_Bayou_Canot.png


I'd be reasonably comfortable saying all 3 were running cab forward.
 
The 819 is legendary. One TV program few years ago in my memory mentioned, subject to correction, it's previous assignment was on the SB City of New Orleans. It received service and exams being a new model of locomotive, and a day or so later, the new relauncched Sunset Limited service extended to Miami with great fanfare,with Disney characters on board in the Spring, came in on September 22, 1993, and 819 was added on front. Can anyone add or adjust my version of its timeframe?

And a rreal biggie: how was 819 disposed of after recovery from the swamp? Does it exist in some warehouse or hidden railyard? Wo would decide after all claims are paid and suits are settled?

I admitt culpability in wanting to know so i can see it. I'd want to go to the Canot bridge itself, but i don't have access to a watercraft, so if access were permitted, I'd go to the 819 to touch it like i did the bent and broken beams of the World Trade Center twin towers. Just something I'm driven to do.
 
The 819 made a few trips on 58/59 to Chicago as well as 19/20 to DC. It was on the way to Sanford for Auto Train engineers training. The 819, 262 and 312 were sent to Mobile where they were cut up for scrap.
 
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