How do you describe a train trip to someone used to flying??

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IndyRacingNut

IndyRacingNut

Train Attendant
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
51
Location
Richmond, VA
Like most of us on this forum, I easily prefer to take the train vs flying so long as I'm not in a big hurry to get there, and even THEN, that's up for debate....

I talk about taking the train enough to friends that a lot of them are actually starting to ask serious questions to me about train travel beyond commuter trains and subways.....I try to tell them a long distance train isn't just a way to get there....It's a way to enjoy the journey...and it beats the snot out of driving.

What do you all say when you're asked about your train adventures?
 
I tell them that if they experience at any time on a train what they do just in order to board a commercial aircraft, they can file sexual assault charges!

Seriously, it's sometimes hard to convey the experience to someone whose normal travel routine consists of the transportation equivalent of lying back and thinking of England. Travel, as with many things in modern life, seems to be all about the destination instead of the journey. Even some people I know who take road trips can't do them without straight through travel. With a train, of course, it's all about the journey.

I do try to be realistic and mention some of the downsides (other than the time difference vs flying), mostly that service tends to be uneven and usually not plastic-pleasant like much of airline service is. But I also mention the people I meet---like having breakfast on the California Zephyr with a mother & adult son from Sweden and a thirtysomething male from the Czech Republic. Outside of a cocktail party in New York or DC or perhaps a reception at a major university, where else in the US can the average person have such an experience?

I also try to mention the wonders of seeing a really great country up close and personal; occasionally even looking through the living room window of people and wondering what they are watching on TV. Of course this is of interest only to those who have a wonder and curiosity about the world around them. There are a fair number who have no more interest in seeing what's outside than paying attention to when an airline pilot announces a geographical feature or landmark.

Most of all I try to convey the uniqueness of train travel and the overall relaxing nature of it. It is similar to other modes of transport, but yet like nothing else they are likely to have experienced.
 
Yes, the train is part of the vacation, not just a way to get there!

I describe my experiences but, I do consider who I may be talking to...not all (personality-wise) may be suited to train travel. If someone shows a real interest in trying out train travel, I'll encourage and advise as much as possible. If they are not too positive about it, I'll let it go.
 
RSG said:
I tell them that if they experience at any time on a train what they do just in order to board a commercial aircraft, they can file sexual assault charges!

Seriously, it's sometimes hard to convey the experience to someone whose normal travel routine consists of the transportation equivalent of lying back and thinking of England. Travel, as with many things in modern life, seems to be all about the destination instead of the journey. Even some people I know who take road trips can't do them without straight through travel. With a train, of course, it's all about the journey.

I do try to be realistic and mention some of the downsides (other than the time difference vs flying), mostly that service tends to be uneven and usually not plastic-pleasant like much of airline service is. But I also mention the people I meet---like having breakfast on the California Zephyr with a mother & adult son from Sweden and a thirtysomething male from the Czech Republic. Outside of a cocktail party in New York or DC or perhaps a reception at a major university, where else in the US can the average person have such an experience?

I also try to mention the wonders of seeing a really great country up close and personal; occasionally even looking through the living room window of people and wondering what they are watching on TV. Of course this is of interest only to those who have a wonder and curiosity about the world around them. There are a fair number who have no more interest in seeing what's outside than paying attention to when an airline pilot announces a geographical feature or landmark.

Most of all I try to convey the uniqueness of train travel and the overall relaxing nature of it. It is similar to other modes of transport, but yet like nothing else they are likely to have experienced.
Click to expand...
Very well stated, and my sentiments exactly. When I try to convey the uniqueness I stay positive until I sometimes get the retort, "Wow, I can fly for less than that." Then I know it's a lost cause. Are you from Wyoming? My avatar pic was taken just east of Pilot Peak near Beartooth Highway.
 
A few weeks ago a Facebook friend was interested in flying to Havre,Mt. I pointed out to her the nearest airport would be in Billings or somewhere a hundred miles away and the cost would be quite high. I suggested taking Amtrak's Empire Builder to Havre. I was the only one who suggested the train and she responded as if I had come from another planet. The train? It would take two to three days! I responded by telling her how nice and relaxing train travel was, how you can see the country and if you get a sleeper all the food is included. Then i told her, the cost of flying to a small Montana town would be about the same as going in a sleeper on Amtrak.

I've taken cross country trips for close to thirty years and I still love it. Too bad,the majority of Americans think a long distance train trip is alien to them.
 
I point out that the view is much better at 3' or 15' than it is at 30,000'. I also point out that on a train, you can get up and stretch your legs (especially stretch your legs) and walk around and also meet other passengers. (On a plane, if your in seat 21-A it is very unlikely that you'll sit and talk to the passenger in seat 18-F.) Plus the seats on a train have more than a 32" pitch.
 
This thread is an excellent example of train enthusiasts talking in their own echo chamber, and figuring out many ways to lose credibility with anyone else. ;)

It is better to pick specific examples and deal with them instead of making sweeping generalizations IMHO. If you try to fight the battle of moving someone who wants to travel from New York to San Francisco from plane to train, you are almost guaranteed to lose. Even New York to Florida is a hard sell. But Chicago to Havre MT, should be a much easier sell. Or for that matter even something like New York to some out of the way place that the train goes to within a 500/600 mile radius, but there you are competing with cars not planes usually. It is much harder to sell a New York to Havre MT all the way by train, except for in terms of fare.

One generic problem in the US is what do you do when you get to wherever you are going. If you have to rent a car there anyway, that already tilts one a bit towards driving all the way if at all practical. Success of train service and bus service vs. cars depends a lot on the availability of reasonable local transportation once you get there.

The fact that airline revenue per ticket is holding steady or going up even in the face of lower gasoline prices, which is hitting Amtrak somewhat hard is indicative of the fact that not too many people are sufficiently bothered by the TSA theater to make a difference in their overall travel choice. So repeatedly pointing out the TSA thing to someone who doesn't have the same sensitivities as some of us is hardly going to change anyone's mind about anything. I do like to travel by train wherever practical, and TSA has never entered into a serious factor to consider list in my mind. That does not mean that I don't ***** and moan about it, like I do about many other things that are at best minor irritants that do not have much effect on broader decisions. That is the unfortunate fact of life.

Edited to fix typos.
 
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As far as I know, no mainline ariline has proposed reducing Y+ below 32" yet. And some are putting in lie flat seats in domestic widebodies for F. Again, such sweeping statements only cause us to lose credibility.
 
I usually just say something along the lines of "it's great, but you've got to be flexible and have a positive attitude." If they're still interested after that I'll give them details, but I realize most of my friends just wouldn't have the patience or attitude to enjoy it. It's just one of those things.
 
Cina said:
I usually just say something along the lines of "it's great, but you've got to be flexible and have a positive attitude." If they're still interested after that I'll give them details, but I realize most of my friends just wouldn't have the patience or attitude to enjoy it. It's just one of those things.
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That is pretty consistent with my experience.

It is very hard to argue against the line of thought that goes - "Would I rather spend time with my friends at the destination? Or would I rather spend half my vacation on a train?"

OTOH, I do have other friends who specifically want to experience a train journey, and in that case I try to gauge what is it that really interests them and try to adjust my recommendation accordingly. Most of them are not really interested in spending a week cooped up in a closet with a window. A preponderance of them are interested in seeing scenery that is truly worth seeing and not endless hours of pine trees or corn fields, though I personally find a certain charm in such myself.
 
I usually suggest that those interested in trying out Amtrak take a short to medium length day trip first to try it out and see if it suits their temperament and needs.

jis makes a good point about not advising others to take Long Distance routes that involve endless miles of corn fields, pine trees and deserts.

My best example is the Zephyr, I have told several people that the Chicago to Denver route is nothing to write home about, but the leg from Denver to California is as good as it gets when it comes to experiencing that "..there is something special about a train!"..

In the Midwest I've recommended that people try a day trip from Chicago on the Lincoln/River Runner Trains and the Michigan Trains.

For those in California the Coast Starlight,Surfliners and the Cascades are the way to try out Trains.

As for the East Coast, I usually tout the Pennsylvanian, the Downeaster, the Maple Leaf and the Adirondack as really great ways to expierence a train ride that has good scenery.

For those who want to go to Florida, the Auto Train over the Silvers is my recommendation for those wanting to have their own vehicle while in Florida.

I too try to be honest and point out the inconsistencies that are SOP on Amtrak, and have actually told some people that I know well that Long Distance Train Travel is not for them!
 
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My wife puts it this way - "When we fly somewhere on vacation, I feel like the vacation doesn't start until we get there. When we take the train, the vacation starts as soon as we step on board".
 
I NEVER recommend taking the train to ANY of my friends, EVER. Remember, these are my FRIENDS. I tell them it's not for everyone. They think I'm peculiar, and I am. I took trains with my folks as a kid and loved it (they didn't), I don't like to fly (they do), I'm never in a hurry (they are), and I have plenty of time (they don't). My feeling is that if anyone (small chance) comes to take a train, they will come to it on their own. Then we can talk. So far it hasn't happened.

I am NOT an advocate for Amtrak. If it suits my needs, it's just an idiosyncrasy of MY personality.
 
OTOH, I have converted a 12 year old into a train lover using a mere short round trip from Kissimmee to Tampa and back by 91/92. Now he wants to go on a longer train trip. I suppose West Palm Beach to Kissimmee and back on 97/98 can get a bit tight.

As Mr. Dylan would say YMMV.
 
Well I think it has a lot to do with what kind of flights people are taking. New York to Hong Kong is about 16 hours. I have done this flight a couple of times in coach and in business class. Even in biz with a nice bed in a 1-2-1 seating set up it's just a long slog. If someone flies to Asia a lot talking them into an 18 hour trip NYC to Chicago in a roomette isn't that difficult of a sell imo. I have two friends who have showed serious interest in taking the train. One I took on the Silver Service New York to Miami on an AGR redemption. That was a pretty easy sell as I put up the points, so it was hard to say no to a free trip. They enjoyed the experience, but I think some of that was because of the low price. My other friend really wants to go to Chicago on the train, so while we have talked about it now for a couple of years we have yet to happen. I think he will probably not really enjoy the trip if we finally do go.

I also kind of agree with very reasonable coach fares to Europe it is getting hard for me to even justify flying to a place like Las Vegas from the East Coast. For a little bit more money and another hour on the plane you could find yourself in Dublin, Ireland. For me I'd much rather spend that extra hour on the plane and enjoy being in Europe. I flew across the Atlantic twice in one week earlier this month, because the fares were simply to good to pass up.

I tend to adjust my recommendations based on who I am talking to. If you fly to Asia multiple times a year suddenly that flight to Europe doesn't seem that daunting. The same way spending a lot of time on a train becomes more manageable.
 
I have had a few people talk to me about train travel but so far as I know no one has actually done it yet. I let people come to me; I don't extol the virtues of train travel unless someone has an interest in it. I think the deal breaker for many folks I talk to may be the lousy boarding/detraining hours in Spokane. And then there's my sister. She has absolutely no interest in train travel whatsoever and think anyone who travels by train is nuts :p . Her only experience in Amtrak travel is a round trip between Campaign and Chicago and another between St. Louis and Bloomington. Because of these two experiences she says there is no truth to the rumor about the great scenery Amtrak has to offer. :rolleyes: ;) No use explaining to her there is much more to our country than cornfields. :lol: On top of that she really enjoys bus travel between her home near Sea-Tac and my neck of the woods south of Spokane. No use talking to a bus fan. :lol:
 
I refer them to the pictures from my latest train trips...the view of Puget Sound from the Cascade, a steak dinner in the diner, running through the Santa Barbara surf aboard the Coast Starlight, the mountains surrounding the Izaak Walton Inn, my cozy (and private) little roomette, the Southwest Chief on the platform at Raton...most of which can be found on my Facebook page.
 
One of the best things to give them would be a link to a recent article from Yahoo that showed up on one of these forums a day or two ago. It was a photo essay of the train experience on the CZ and LSL, both roomette and coach. It was, in my opinion, a slightly too positive spin on things with no mentions of occasional surly attendants, schedule delays, etc. But it was well done with good photos of some excellent-looking dining car food, the roomettes, shower, observation car, etc. I think this would spark their interest if they were "train people" at all. Sorry, I don't have the link handy.
 
jis said:
As far as I know, no mainline ariline has proposed reducing Y+ below 32" yet. And some are putting in lie flat seats in domestic widebodies for F. Again, such sweeping statements only cause us to lose credibility.
Click to expand...
While I understand the point you're trying to make, I'm sure you also know there's a method to the madness of installing improvements like lie-flat seats. (In fact, there's a psychological term for it which I can't think of at the moment.)

If you told the average airline traveler or travel writer ten years ago that airline seats would be priced based on location in the actual plane itself (rather than simply the actual class of service or fare code), they would have likely said that you've been reading too much dystopian fiction. Yet, in 2016 (and several years before), that's now common practice. There's a reason that carriers like Ryanair float wild stories like plans for "straphanger flights" that are literally SRO. When the outrage machine kicks into gear, it's easy to say "Only kidding!" But at some point in time, there will be enough people who say “Hey, Dublin to Barcelona for £19? Who cares if you have to stand for awhile!” and it will become reality. (Never mind that the initial price will be introductory and will quickly increase.)

It's like the hotels that promote a free breakfast (or as is the current trend, free 'hot breakfast') and end up reducing the amenities in the actual room itself.

[Edited for clarity.]
 
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IndyRacingNut said:
Like most of us on this forum, I easily prefer to take the train vs flying so long as I'm not in a big hurry to get there, and even THEN, that's up for debate....

I talk about taking the train enough to friends that a lot of them are actually starting to ask serious questions to me about train travel beyond commuter trains and subways.....I try to tell them a long distance train isn't just a way to get there....It's a way to enjoy the journey...and it beats the snot out of driving.

What do you all say when you're asked about your train adventures?
Click to expand...
When talking about Amtrak, I immediately warn them about the recurring delays. I attempt to give them a realistic estimate of what the delays typically are. If they have a particular trip in mind, of course, I can give them all the details for that route. I find warning about the delays in advance helps prime their attitude; if they're still willing to book the ticket while knowing about the delays, they usually aren't bothered by anything they experience.

But I'm usually talking to people who at least understand subways, streetcars, or commuter trains. It's harder with people who have never been on an actual train in their lives. Then I find it quite impossible to describe, apart from explaining that I don't get motion sick on trains, while I do on planes and in cars.

For people who've been on *some* kind of train, I simply say that the seats are huge, there are bathrooms on the train, you can get up and move around, that there's a cafe car to buy snacks, tables to play cards at, and you can get a sleeping compartment for overnight if you want... it leaves them pretty positive.
 
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