EB - Lateness Problems This Summer

[Donctor]

Once again, why did the EB locomotives derail?

Was not there but...,

Ran over a derailer, pick a switch, ram the coaches, the rail spread under the load, rail flip over, someone remove the rail spikes, the engine was seized for a bad debit, there was ice built up between the tracks, there was a asphalt built up between the tracks, a wheel cracked, a truck crack, I am sure that a few are missing.

Please feel free to pick one. All are cause of derailments or the engine getting put out of service. All have happen in the last 15 years.

Does it really matter. Railroading is a outside sport. Stuff happens.

Most of those things are preentable. Why were they not prevented?

You can't stop the goat.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Once again, why did the EB locomotives derail?

They got tired and wanted to lay down for a nap :giggle:

 

[RRUserious]

Are these guys aware of what's happening? How about talking to BNSF instead?

U.S. Sens. Max Baucus and Jon Tester, D-Mont., are urging Amtrak to increase capacity on the Empire Builder to help energy-impacted communities take full advantage of the Bakken oil and gas boom.
“We are hearing from our constituents that Amtrak passenger capacity for Montanans, tourists and other passengers trying to travel through eastern Montana and western North Dakota can be ‘extremely limited.’ The swell of demand for travel into and out of the Bakken region must be addressed,” Baucus and Tester wrote in a letter to Amtrak President and CEO Joseph Boardman. “Reliable long-distance passenger rail service is vitally important for our constituents, especially as many residents commute from central or western Montana to jobs in the Bakken. The Empire Builder route is an essential part of spurring economic development in northern Montana communities, many of which face great distances to reach the nearest airport.”

Baucus and Tester noted the Empire Builder contributes an estimated $14 million annually to communities along the Hi-Line and is experiencing a dramatic rise in ridership related to Bakken energy development. They also urged Amtrak to expand passenger capacity to better accommodate veterans in remote rural areas who must travel long distances to access services at Veterans Affairs facilities.

In support of the booming energy production in the Bakken, Tester also recently called on the Interior Department to more quickly permit responsible energy development projects that drive economic development and create jobs.

Transportation infrastructure has been a cornerstone of Baucus’ ongoing Call to Action in the Bakken to address increased pressure on communities related to the oil and gas boom in eastern Montana.

 

[Ispolkom]

Are these guys aware of what's happening? How about talking to BNSF instead?

Notice that they didn't actually talk to anyone at Amtrak. They sent a letter, which allowed them to issue a press release.

Mission accomplished.

You didn't think that they actually had any hope of changing things on the Hi Line, did you? Expanding capacity would require more equipment, and that isn't coming for years, even in the best case. The key here is that Senator Tester is running for reelection this year. This is strictly for local consumption, showing that he's watching out for his constituents.

 

[yarrow]

You didn't think that they actually had any hope of changing things on the Hi Line, did you? Expanding capacity would require more equipment, and that isn't coming for years, even in the best case. The key here is that Senator Tester is running for reelection this year. This is strictly for local consumption, showing that he's watching out for his constituents.

yup

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I think this might have been the cause of one of the derailments:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I know it's a joke, but the picture looks real. Where's that? Which rail line?

Did you know on the Amtrak web page they are now predicting 2-5 hours late . This would be awesome going eastbound. IMHO, I think any one wanting to see the best of the empire builder should take it now. You will probably get maybe even the whole Rockies' range in Montana!!!!!!!! I consider this lateness a double edge sword. :lol:

going east you always get the rockies in the daytime.

I mean, not just from Whitefish east.

If the train is on time, you not only see from Whitefish east, but from just past Libby. If you get lucky you could even start seeing before Libby. Iff the train is late three hours you would start seeing at Sandpoint. You're not going to see anything west of Spokane even if the train is late, unless it's over four hours.

No offence, but I don't think you've taken this train before.

 

[montana mike]

I take the EB a lot and even with these terrible overall arrival delays in CHI, the Eastbound EB is usually close to being on time when it pulls into WFH in the AM, so you really don't get any big "advantage" in this regard. The loss of time occurs once the train gets out into the plains, as manifested today again for train 8. It was less than 1 hour behind schedule after the trek thru Glacier NP, but by the time it reached the MT/ND line it has lost an additional 2 1/2 hours due to those now infamous extreme heat slow orders. I agree safety should always be paramount, but the temps being experienced in MT and ND over the past several days have been within a few degrees of "normal" and certainly would not be considered by any local as extreme heat. I have taken this train for years now and do not recall having such slow orders in the summer like this when temperatures were normal for this time of year on the High Line.

Oh, well, it is what it is.

I am on the EB late next week and also got both an email and phone call (automated) from Amtrak alerting me about the anticipated 2-5 hour delay. They haven't done their math very well. The average delays over the past several weeks have been closer to 4-7 hours. That information would have been much more realistic. I am already planning to change my rental car pick up location (can't pick up the car in Union Station after 7 PM and I see almost zero chance of arriving before that time).

 

[amamba]

I wonder if BNSF is doing the slow orders/heat restrictions because of the repeated derailments in the area. I mean, three derailments this summer sounds like a lot.

 

[JayPea]

I think this might have been the cause of one of the derailments:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I know it's a joke, but the picture look real. Where's that? Which rail line?]

The picture indeed is real. I took it from my second floor apartment window. The line in question is in my town of Colfax, WA, about 55 miles due south of Spokane. It's a former UP branch line that was taken over by a short line in 1991 or so. The line went out of service in 2006 after a wildfire destroyed a trestle a few miles away. As part of a major road construction project (the street you see is a major north - south Eastern Washington highway) the crossing is being removed.

 

[yarrow]

I think this might have been the cause of one of the derailments:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I know it's a joke, but the picture look real. Where's that? Which rail line?]

The picture indeed is real. I took it from my second floor apartment window. The line in question is in my town of Colfax, WA, about 55 miles due south of Spokane. It's a former UP branch line that was taken over by a short line in 1991 or so. The line went out of service in 2006 after a wildfire destroyed a trestle a few miles away. As part of a major road construction project (the street you see is a major north - south Eastern Washington highway) the crossing is being removed.

i thought it was colfax, JayPea, and figured it was some devious right of way improvement scheme of yours to get the eb to run through your town

 

[George Harris]

Once again, why did the EB locomotives derail?

Was not there but...,

Ran over a derailer, pick a switch, ram the coaches, the rail spread under the load, rail flip over, someone remove the rail spikes, the engine was seized for a bad debit, there was ice built up between the tracks, there was a asphalt built up between the tracks, a wheel cracked, a truck crack, I am sure that a few are missing.

Please feel free to pick one. All are cause of derailments or the engine getting put out of service. All have happen in the last 15 years.

Does it really matter. Railroading is a outside sport. Stuff happens.

Most of those things are preentable. Why were they not prevented?

Swadian: It is not near as simple as you seem to think. You better believe that analysis of cause and methods of preventing recurrance are being are being are being discussed at all levels from the track foreman and trainmaster up within the railroad and if more that minor also by the FRA. Yes, railroading is an outside sport conducted in all kinds of weather and highly variable conditions otherwise as well, with a large number of rules enforced by the companies themselve and the FRA, plus the laws of physics. For us to sit here and go over it without benefit of the analysis done by those on the ground is simply Monday morning quarterbacking.

 

[JayPea]

I think this might have been the cause of one of the derailments:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I know it's a joke, but the picture look real. Where's that? Which rail line?]

The picture indeed is real. I took it from my second floor apartment window. The line in question is in my town of Colfax, WA, about 55 miles due south of Spokane. It's a former UP branch line that was taken over by a short line in 1991 or so. The line went out of service in 2006 after a wildfire destroyed a trestle a few miles away. As part of a major road construction project (the street you see is a major north - south Eastern Washington highway) the crossing is being removed.

i thought it was colfax, JayPea, and figured it was some devious right of way improvement scheme of yours to get the eb to run through your town

LOL Yarrow, as much as I'd like to see the EB run through Colfax, it's a tad impractical. I'll settle for catching the EB in Spokane and have to be satisfied with the Thruway bus stopping in Colfax. Which, by the way, stops in the parking lot of the building you see in the background, the Ace Hardware store. Obviously they've had to alter their location for their stop now

 

[Ispolkom]

I wonder if BNSF is doing the slow orders/heat restrictions because of the repeated derailments in the area. I mean, three derailments this summer sounds like a lot.

It does seem like a lot, but the Hi Line isn't the only place in eastern Montana where BNSF has had derailments. There was just a spectacular one (complete with fireball) near Plevna.

This this on the former Milwaukee Road mainline. The summer's derailments have given me an education on the geography of eastern Montana, a place I thought I knew fairly well.

 

[EB_OBS]

It looks like the last cars deadheading to Seattle and Portland, to make up the sixth train set, will be arriving tomorrow.

I'm not sure yet if it's going to sit in protect of a very late arriving #7/27 or if it's going to go into regular rotation.

 

[montana mike]

As long as BNSF keeps issuing the slow downs thru MT and ND (eg today--4 hours lost in this area on the east bound EB) the EB will continue to arrive 4 to 5 hours late into CHI. My BNSF contact in WFH says they plan on keeping the speeds down (60 mph or less) thru at least the first half of September and will "revisit" the program at that time. Track construction and repairs continue to also play a role in these slowdowns as well.

It looks like the last cars deadheading to Seattle and Portland, to make up the sixth train set, will be arriving tomorrow.

I'm not sure yet if it's going to sit in protect of a very late arriving #7/27 or if it's going to go into regular rotation.

 

[EB_OBS]

As long as BNSF keeps issuing the slow downs thru MT and ND (eg today--4 hours lost in this area on the east bound EB) the EB will continue to arrive 4 to 5 hours late into CHI. My BNSF contact in WFH says they plan on keeping the speeds down (60 mph or less) thru at least the first half of September and will "revisit" the program at that time. Track construction and repairs continue to also play a role in these slowdowns as well.

It looks like the last cars deadheading to Seattle and Portland, to make up the sixth train set, will be arriving tomorrow.

I'm not sure yet if it's going to sit in protect of a very late arriving #7/27 or if it's going to go into regular rotation.

Yeah both trains are still going to be late arriving into Chicago, Seattle and Portland, but at least when it gets out of the gate on-time in the west, we hopefully won't see anymore of these 9, 10 or 12-15 hours late trains into Chicago.

 

[montana mike]

Agree-It's just too bad the 5-6 hour tardiness will kill any chance for connections thru CHI for the foreseeable future. C'est La Vie'

btw--the eastbound EB is now over 5 hours late as it chugs thru Wisconsin towards CHI today.

As long as BNSF keeps issuing the slow downs thru MT and ND (eg today--4 hours lost in this area on the east bound EB) the EB will continue to arrive 4 to 5 hours late into CHI. My BNSF contact in WFH says they plan on keeping the speeds down (60 mph or less) thru at least the first half of September and will "revisit" the program at that time. Track construction and repairs continue to also play a role in these slowdowns as well.

It looks like the last cars deadheading to Seattle and Portland, to make up the sixth train set, will be arriving tomorrow.

I'm not sure yet if it's going to sit in protect of a very late arriving #7/27 or if it's going to go into regular rotation.

Yeah both trains are still going to be late arriving into Chicago, Seattle and Portland, but at least when it gets out of the gate on-time in the west, we hopefully won't see anymore of these 9, 10 or 12-15 hours late trains into Chicago.

 

[anir dendroica]

Is that 60 mph at all times, or 60 mph heat restrictions?

If it's a heat restriction, the problem should mostly disappear in September until next summer.

If it's 60 mph at all times, then why? Has BNSF lost confidence in their track after a critical number of derailments?

Mark

As long as BNSF keeps issuing the slow downs thru MT and ND (eg today--4 hours lost in this area on the east bound EB) the EB will continue to arrive 4 to 5 hours late into CHI. My BNSF contact in WFH says they plan on keeping the speeds down (60 mph or less) thru at least the first half of September and will "revisit" the program at that time. Track construction and repairs continue to also play a role in these slowdowns as well.

It looks like the last cars deadheading to Seattle and Portland, to make up the sixth train set, will be arriving tomorrow.

I'm not sure yet if it's going to sit in protect of a very late arriving #7/27 or if it's going to go into regular rotation.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Is that 60 mph at all times, or 60 mph heat restrictions?

If it's a heat restriction, the problem should mostly disappear in September until next summer.

If it's 60 mph at all times, then why? Has BNSF lost confidence in their track after a critical number of derailments?

Mark

As long as BNSF keeps issuing the slow downs thru MT and ND (eg today--4 hours lost in this area on the east bound EB) the EB will continue to arrive 4 to 5 hours late into CHI. My BNSF contact in WFH says they plan on keeping the speeds down (60 mph or less) thru at least the first half of September and will "revisit" the program at that time. Track construction and repairs continue to also play a role in these slowdowns as well.

It looks like the last cars deadheading to Seattle and Portland, to make up the sixth train set, will be arriving tomorrow.

I'm not sure yet if it's going to sit in protect of a very late arriving #7/27 or if it's going to go into regular rotation.

It's 79 mph without restrictions, 60 mph with restrictions.

 

[yarrow]

If it's 60 mph at all times, then why? Has BNSF lost confidence in their track after a critical number of derailments?

excellent question

 

[yarrow]

does amtrak have a consistent(from a passenger's viewpoint)plan for handling connections to the eb? last year on our 14 hour late arrival into chi we were told by several conductors, sca and others the plan would be: overnight hotel in chi and next day's cl. when we arrived, we were herded into the metro lounge and told we would be bussed to was and the busses were upstairs ready to load. we had already cancelled was lodging for one night, told people we would be in chi, etc. it would be nice to know: missed connection means hotel in chi and next day's train. is there a consistent plan for dealing with the missed connections?

 

[montana mike]

Just took a look at today's EBs arriving in SEA and CHI. Looks like the SEA arrival will be between 4 and 5 hours late and the EB arriving in Chicago will likely be well over 8 hours behind schedule. ALL of the EBs are now losing time throughout much of MT and ND. I see no improvement in arrivals at either side of the continent unfortunately. And the "heat slowdowns" do not appear to be the main issue, since several days over the past week have actually seen temps around 80 degrees for highs in these areas. Until train congestion and track maintenance and repair issues are resolved these new 4-8 hour delays will be the norm. Bummer.

 

[NW cannonball]

Here in MSP the EB is the only train there is. Eastbound from here they are doing an "on-time bus" .

I'm just hoping that the track upgrades and uplifts happening this summer help BNSF increase capacity.

Hoping is the key word.

 

[WiCruiseDreamer]

Question about train running late and rescheduling. I realize that things may change before the end of October, but I am a worrier and a planner and want to know what options I may have to look at.



If the EB is still running late in October, I will need to do 1 of 2 things, either move the entire reservation up 1 day or move just the EB portion up 1 day and spend the night in Chicago. How would it work to do that and what recourse do I have if there is a significant difference in price?

 

[E Runs]

How has ridership been? Aside from those who have no other travel option I can't see many abiding with known 4+ hour delays.