Romney's plan for Amtrak

[D.P. Roberts]

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate forum for this link, so mods please move it if necessary.

Mitt Romney revealed more of his economic plan today, including "ending subsidies to Amtrak".

Washington Examiner

CBS News

I don't know why candidates - of EITHER party - bother to release plans telling us how they want Congress to spend money, as if it's something they have control over. It seems like now would be a good time to contact your local congresscritter.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Getting rid of amtrak to fix the national debt is like taking 1 ship out of the ocean to make the water level go down. It's not going to do crap to the debt.

 

[Blackwolf]

[rant]

Indeed, yet another in a continuing string of reasons to contact the Beasts on Capital Hill. Not that they could give a flying **** about what the little slaves, I mean Citizens, want or desire from Government. But any noise is good noise when you are competing for attention.

Romney has no more power to cut Amtrak as he does to paint a US flag on the moon. But it makes for a lot of publicized hot air that the media thrives off of.

[/rant]

 

[WICT106]

Remember that it is Congress who has the final vote on the budget, specifically the House Of Representatives. A President may propose what he or she wants, but it is Congress who Dispense the funds. This makes one's votes for Congressional Office as important for Amtrak as one's Presidential vote.

Also keep in mind that they are our Elected Officials, and need to be reminded that they work for us.

 

[Agent]

It seems like now would be a good time to contact your local congresscritter.

I kind of like the sound of "congresscritter." I can see it now: Little Congress Critter by Mercer Mayer.

 

[Ozark Southern]

Republicans couldn't care less one way or the other about trains. What they don't like are unions. Hence why they oppose rail, construction projects, teacher tenure, etc. Investigate their platform; you'll find virtually everyone who stands to lose their job as a result of Republican budget cuts is a union member.

 

[MattW]

I notice that his plan doesn't seem include ending lower-48 "Essential" Air Services which has previously been examined to cost ten times Amtrak per seat, but the planes fly empty whereas Amtrak's trains have decent patronage.

 

[mfastx]

While he's at it, he should end subsidies for road construction and airports too.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Speaking of "them critters on the hill" (Hey, wasn't I a Congressman? :blush: hboy: ) here is a link to an article from Reuters that The House is considering 'scaling back' the transportation bill: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/02/24/us-usa-infrastructure-congress-idUKTRE81N01R20120224

Davy

 

[SarahZ]

I'm embarrassed that he's from my state. I think he's in my town today, come to think of it.

I hope they give him a tour of our beautiful train station.

 

[Shortline]

I used to be a republican, but the last several years I'm leaning more toward Libertarian. Just wish there was a 3rd party candidate who was electable. Seems to me the Republicans have a golden opportunity to capitalize on the independent and green voters by looking to enhance and expand the National Rail Network. If done properly, could've a win win, for them, as well as for the nation. I'm all for cutting wasteful, unnecessary, and frivolous spending...including Amtrak in its current state. Either fund it fully and make it a truly National system, or....don't.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Seems to me the Republicans have a golden opportunity to capitalize on the independent and green voters by looking to enhance and expand the National Rail Network. If done properly, could've a win win, for them, as well as for the nation.

Why on earth would a green voter ever choose a post-Nixon Republican? Or a post-Carter Democrat for that matter. Or are you trying to say green as in an "uneducated" voter?

 

[TexRail]

So lets keep paying to defend half of the nations on earth, keep giving billions in aid to countries that hate us, but let's cut one of the things that actually benefits our country and the citizens directly? The lack of common sense in government is not even shocking to me anymore. In my opinion, the govt should be kept small because of this lack of common sense but one of the things govt needs to help with is infrastructure. So some would have Amtrak abolished, are these same representatives responsible for our crumbling interstate system? Don't tell me we can't afford it when we spend tons of cash on hair brained schemes almost daily. All modes of transportation are subsidized to some extent and Amtrak's goes the farthest for the money in my opinion.

Generally, the left would rather give the money to the poor people and the right wants private business to pay for Amtrak. Both of these generalities are unrealistic. Texas is a very red state and the Texas Eagle would not exist today if the Republican politicians did not rally for state money to keep the line running. So with the TE example, generalities are not always accurate despite Romney's efforts to prove otherwise (I mean come one this is Romney, the guy would be a democrat in a lot of states). And have we forgotten how important alternate modes of transportation are after 9/11? Amtrak saved the day for many people. Any number of things could cause the same problem whether it is another war or a catastrophic solar storm that takes out our GPS systems for a while. Personally, I could justify paying much more for Amtrak just so we have the insurance policy of a solid backup transportation system.

We need to mount an education media blitz to inform the public that airports and highways are subsidized too. I am tired of seeing politicians scoring easy points by attacking Amtrak.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Generally, the left would rather give the money to the poor people and the right wants private business to pay for Amtrak...Texas is a very red state and the Texas Eagle would not exist today if the Republican politicians did not rally for state money to keep the line running.

I don't think the right wants anybody to pay for Amtrak. So far as I can tell they simply want Amtrak to go away and be a cheap funeral, leaving the NEC for a private entity to take over and operate. It's true that the Texas Eagle would not exist today if not for the Republicans of yesterday. Same as the EPA, Clean Water Act, Clean Air act, etc. However, when Kay Bailey Hutchison retires at the end of the current term much of the remaining GOP support for passenger rail will retire with her. The idea that Romney might be as easily classified as either a Democrat or a Republican probably has as much to say about the convergence of our two establishment parties as it does about Romney himself.

 

[TexRail]

Generally, the left would rather give the money to the poor people and the right wants private business to pay for Amtrak...Texas is a very red state and the Texas Eagle would not exist today if the Republican politicians did not rally for state money to keep the line running.

I don't think the right wants anybody to pay for Amtrak. So far as I can tell they simply want Amtrak to go away and be a cheap funeral, leaving the NEC for a private entity to take over and operate. It's true that the Texas Eagle would not exist today if not for the Republicans of yesterday. Same as the EPA, Clean Water Act, Clean Air act, etc. However, when Kay Bailey Hutchison retires at the end of the current term much of the remaining GOP support for passenger rail will retire with her. The idea that Romney might be as easily classified as either a Democrat or a Republican probably has as much to say about the convergence of our two establishment parties as it does about Romney himself.

Agreed. I thought it was just me but it seems to me that you have to be either far to the left or far to the right to be heard these days. If people hate trains then I guess I will respect that but what really irritates me is when the politicians hate trains based on the false belief that the airlines and bus lines do A-OK all by themselves. I know this is far from the truth and I don't see how someone from Washington who votes on the budget can in good faith make that argument.

 

[Shortline]

1330119755[/url]' post='349566']

1330119034[/url]' post='349562']Seems to me the Republicans have a golden opportunity to capitalize on the independent and green voters by looking to enhance and expand the National Rail Network. If done properly, could've a win win, for them, as well as for the nation.

Why on earth would a green voter ever choose a post-Nixon Republican? Or a post-Carter Democrat for that matter. Or are you trying to say green as in an "uneducated" voter?

Was wondering how long it would take you to get here.

 

[benjibear]

Our candidates either have to define themselves as far right to be Republican and far left to be Democrat. Both are total oppisites of each other and in my opinion there are very few people that are that extreme. Youu have the politiicians that try to fit in the thin strip of black or white (or in our case blue and red) and most people fall somewhere in the middle gray area. If a third party candidate can fit that gray area correctly, they would become president.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Getting rid of amtrak to fix the national debt is like taking 1 ship out of the ocean to make the water level go down. It's not going to do crap to the debt.

Yep! Better off ruducing road and airport subsides!

 

[Ryan]

far left to be Democrat.

HA! That's the funniest thing I've read today.

There's nothing "far left" or even "left" about today's Democratic Party.

 

[transit54]

far left to be Democrat.

HA! That's the funniest thing I've read today.

There's nothing "far left" or even "left" about today's Democratic Party.

I agree. Perhaps the most liberal member of the Senate is actually an independent - Bernie Sanders, whom I'm proud to say represents me in the Senate.*

*I don't agree with everything Bernie believes, but by and large I think you'd be hard pressed to find another senator who so eschews special interests and is willing to speak his mind at will.

 

[Shortline]

1330144172[/url]' post='349631']

1330137436[/url]' post='349619']

1330130118[/url]' post='349599']far left to be Democrat.

HA! That's the funniest thing I've read today.

There's nothing "far left" or even "left" about today's Democratic Party.

I agree. Perhaps the most liberal member of the Senate is actually an independent - Bernie Sanders, whom I'm proud to say represents me in the Senate.*

*I don't agree with everything Bernie believes, but by and large I think you'd be hard pressed to find another senator who so eschews special interests and is willing to speak his mind at will.

I think I just threw up a bit in my mouth.

 

[sportbiker]

If the Democrats were really far left they would have nominated Kucinich. If you think Obama qualifies as "far left" it goes to show how far to the right the ground has shifted in this country.

 

[RCrierie]

I notice that his plan doesn't seem include ending lower-48 "Essential" Air Services which has previously been examined to cost ten times Amtrak per seat, but the planes fly empty whereas Amtrak's trains have decent patronage.

Left unsaid is that these were far more prevalent in the 1970ies; and they're mostly gone now, since the subsidies are gone.

There was a nice round up of these in a Aviation themed forum Link

Here's the revelant bitz:

In the 1970s, you could look through most any airline schedule and find lots of multi-stop flights. The Civil Aeronautics Board controlled all aspects of intercity airline service, including setting fares and awarding nonstop service on routes around the country. While larger cities benefitted from nonstop service to other larger cities, smaller cities and towns were most often served via multi-stop service or "milk runs".
http://public.fotki.com/Seat2A/2011-autumn-perigri/zzz-sea-pdx-jpg.html

Seattle to Portland Schedule from March 1968

Government subsidies made it possible for airlines to provide service to smaller communities like Lamar, Colorado or Cheyenne, Wyoming. Flights to cities like these were often part of a larger service to other cities in the region. Thus it was possible to find four-stop service between Seattle and Portland via TIW, OLM, HQM and AST (Tacoma, Olympia, Hoquiam and Astoria) on Hughes Airwest.

http://public.fotki.com/Seat2A/2011-autumn-perigri/mso-den-nov-1970.html

Missoula to Denver Schedule from November 1970

Frontier operated eight-stop Convair 580 service between Missoula and Denver (MSO-BZN-BIL-COD-WRL-RIW-CPR-LAR-CYS-DEN).

http://public.fotki.com/Seat2A/2011-autumn-perigri/ord-sea-nov-1970.html

Chicago to Seattle Schedule from November 1970

One of my favorites was Northwest #105, a seven-stop 727 flight between Seattle and Minneapolis routing ORD-MSP-FAR-BIS-BIL-GTF-GEG-PDX-SEA. Through passengers wouldn't go hungry with breakfast, lunch and a snack served enroute.

http://public.fotki.com/Seat2A/2011-autumn-perigri/jfk-msy-nov-1970.html

New York to New Orleans Schedule from November 1970

Finally, who wouldn't want to spend nine hours aboard National 493, a stretch 727 traveling between New York and New Orleans via DCA, ORF, CHS, JAX, TLH, PFN, PNS and MOB. It's still faster than the bus and you'd be served three snacks and a lunch along the way. Real diehards could book this as a nine stop flight to Houston and have another snack enroute.

These days most of the government subsidies are no longer offered, so citizens of cities like Olympia or Cheyenne have to drive to the closest big city airport such as SEA or DEN. Many smaller communities now enjoy nonstop service from airline hubs via the regional operations of most major airlines. A good example of this would be American Eagle's nonstop ERJ-145 service from Chicago to Manhattan, Kansas.

Some of the last remaining jet operated "milk runs" in North America are offered by Alaska Airlines on its flights to communities along Alaska's southeastern panhandle. Many of these towns don't have the population to support a profitable daily nonstop service from Seattle or Anchorage, so they are served via a single flight that serves many of them. My personal favorite is Alaska #65, which departs Seattle for Juneau via Ketchikan, Wrangell and Petersburg. AS 65 actually continues on to Anchorage, but Alaska will generally not sell SEA-ANC space on this flight. My flight down to Juneau this afternoon makes stops in Cordova and Yakutat before visiting Juneau and continuing on to Seattle.

I found that while looking for information on the Alaska Railroad's passenger service, as he briefly rode on it for his trip travelogue.

 

[The Chief]

Mit snipes at Amtrak again, Saturday, on the stump in Lansing.

MLive story

Nothing new, just more of the same from Mit. Story does have the good Boardman quote from earlier so it is fair, and balanced.

 

[dlagrua]

I believe that Amtrak will continue to exist no matter who is president. Despite efforts to discourage, cut the subsidy, and marginalize Amtrak, the service continues to grow. Amtrak is a service that serves the public interest well while using less energy that any other form of transportation. Our tax money should be used to fund it, but the enthusiasm for conflict guides the Washington establishment to spend billions of our tax money fighting wars for the Globalists and to bail out their criminal friends on Wall Street.