Improve Texas Eagle

[USrail21]

Texas Eagle Needs improvements. First, It should have a second branch to Houston so it can serve College Station. Also, it should skip Pontiac and Carlinville. Neither of those are major cities and are served by Lincoln Service. Also add a station in Arlington, Texas. Plus at all times, Texas Eagle should Terminate at San Antonio and transfer to Sunset Limited to get to Los Angeles. So these need to happen to make the Texas Eagle a better service.

 

[stntylr]

Texas Eagle Needs improvements. First, It should have a second branch to Houston so it can serve College Station. Also, it should skip Pontiac and Carlinville. Neither of those are major cities and are served by Lincoln Service. Also add a station in Arlington, Texas. Plus at all times, Texas Eagle should Terminate at San Antonio and transfer to Sunset Limited to get to Los Angeles. So these need to happen to make the Texas Eagle a better service.

Since the plans are for the Texas Eagle to one day leave the Union Pacific route through Arlington and start using the Trinity Railways Express route I don't think an Arlington station is going to happen. The closest is the possibility of adding the Centerpoint Station to the Texas Eagle which would serve Arlington and DFW airport but Centerpoint is in Fort Worth although it doesn't seem like it.

The branch to Houston is a good idea and has been looked into but getting the host railroad Union Pacific to agree is difficult. An easier to implement plan would be connect to Houston from Fort Worth through Temple.

 

[TCRT]

First, It should have a second branch to Houston so it can serve College Station.

This used to be a reality until the mid-1990's. The service ran as 521/522 and split off at Dallas, including a stop at College Station. Here's a link to the last timetable it showed up in, the May 1995 edition. The language on that page makes it look like the Houston section went away on 9/09/1995. I imagine it was dropped due to low ridership but someone more knowledgeable than I may have an alternate explanation.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Texas Eagle Needs improvements. First, It should have a second branch to Houston so it can serve College Station. Also, it should skip Pontiac and Carlinville. Neither of those are major cities and are served by Lincoln Service. Also add a station in Arlington, Texas. Plus at all times, Texas Eagle should Terminate at San Antonio and transfer to Sunset Limited to get to Los Angeles. So these need to happen to make the Texas Eagle a better service.

The Lone Star (nee the Texas Chief pre-Amtrak) was a very succesful Train until it was eliminated due to Cost Cutting forced by clueless politicians similiar to the hacks we have in Congress and the White House now! Since the Eagle is my home Train (you cant' go anywhere without riding the Eagles :help: ) I totally agree about stops that could be eliminated to improve the OTP of the Eagle including San Marcos (SMC)and Taylor (TAY-UH OH-there goes my $6 Point Runs! )and Mineola in Texas. The dwell time in FTW and STL could also be shortened and the ridiculous Layover in SAS to connect with the Sunset Ltd. could also be shortened to a couple of hours thus improving the Calling times for such Major Markets as TUS and Maricopa(Phoenix). IF and when the Daily Eagle is implemented through the Kind offices of UP :help: perhaps a new schedule will ensure this!

Edited: correct Train name per jis' kind reminder/my bad!!

 

[VentureForth]

Hey now, I've appreciated Mineola and boarded there in the past.

 

[henryj]

First, It should have a second branch to Houston so it can serve College Station.

This used to be a reality until the mid-1990's. The service ran as 521/522 and split off at Dallas, including a stop at College Station. Here's a link to the last timetable it showed up in, the May 1995 edition. The language on that page makes it look like the Houston section went away on 9/09/1995. I imagine it was dropped due to low ridership but someone more knowledgeable than I may have an alternate explanation.

This service was put in place after the Lone Star was killed. They tried a branch from Temple for a while but that didn't work then they tried this. Amtrak gave the SP millions to upgrade the line but the train could still only make the Dallas to Houston run in 6 hours vs 4 1/2 from the late 30's until 1956. Then the track deteriorated back to it's former state and the train ran later and later until Amtrak just gave up on it. The route they should have used is the BNSF route which is shorter and supported times of 4 hours until 1965. College Station would have to be served via a bus transfer at N. Zulch. If and when Texas decides to get back into the passenger rail business you would have service on the complete DFW, SAS, Houston, DFW triangle. Until then forget it.

The best way to speed up the Eagle is to fix the entrance to San Antonio where it takes an hour and half to almost three hours to go the 52 miles from San Marcos to San Antonio.

 

[afigg]

This used to be a reality until the mid-1990's. The service ran as 521/522 and split off at Dallas, including a stop at College Station. Here's a link to the last timetable it showed up in, the May 1995 edition. The language on that page makes it look like the Houston section went away on 9/09/1995. I imagine it was dropped due to low ridership but someone more knowledgeable than I may have an alternate explanation.

That was a 3 day a week service which presumably hurt it a lot for intercity Houston - Dallas travel. With a daily Texas Eagle, a daily split train or stub train over that route might be viable. The current TE and proposed revised TE/SL daily service schedule would put the Dallas-Houston service at convenient times of the day. However, the 6 hour trip time in that schedule is a major drawback.

Restoration of service over this route only happens if the Texas politicians at the federal and state level get solidly behind it and the state is willing to contribute some funding to restore service, even if the split train is part of the LD system. Perhaps it could be sold as phase 1 of a larger effort to provide high (or higher) speed corridor service between Dallas/FW and Houston. But this would be a very tough sell in the current political climate.

 

[jis]

Texas Eagle Needs improvements. First, It should have a second branch to Houston so it can serve College Station. Also, it should skip Pontiac and Carlinville. Neither of those are major cities and are served by Lincoln Service. Also add a station in Arlington, Texas. Plus at all times, Texas Eagle should Terminate at San Antonio and transfer to Sunset Limited to get to Los Angeles. So these need to happen to make the Texas Eagle a better service.

The Lone Star (nee the Texas Eagle pre-Amtrak) was a very succesful Train until it was eliminated due to Cost Cutting forced by clueless politicians similiar to the hacks we have in Congress and the White House now! Since the Eagle is my home Train (you cant' go anywhere without riding the Eagles :help: ) I totally agree about stops that could be eliminated to improve the OTP of the Eagle including San Marcos (SMC)and Taylor (TAY-UH OH-there goes my $6 Point Runs! )and Mineola in Texas. The dwell time in FTW and STL could also be shortened and the ridiculous Layover in SAS to connect with the Sunset Ltd. could also be shortened to a couple of hours thus improving the Calling times for such Major Markets as TUS and Maricopa(Phoenix). IF and when the Daily Eagle is implemented through the Kind offices of UP :help: perhaps a new schedule will ensure this!

Surely you mean the Texas Chief and not Texas Eagle in your first line Jim?

I may be wrong about this but AFAIR the train run by MoPac on the current Texas Eagle route was called Texas Eagle pre-Amtrak (at least according to the 1969 Official Guide). Its name was changed to the Inter-American by Amtrak for a period, and then to plain Eagle before regaining the Texas Eagle monicker.

The pre-Amtrak Chicago - Oklahoma City - Fort Worth - Houston train run by SantaFe which it called the Texas Chief, was rechristened the Lone Star around 1974, when SantaFe revoked Amtrak's permission to use the Chief monicker on any of its trains. Eventually it was discontinued circa 1979. So the train that is called the Texas Eagle today was never called Lone Star at least in recent history AFAICT. For a period under Amtrak it was called the Eagle. Was it called the Lone Star at some point before 1969?

Even earlier there was a Lone Star that ran from St. Louis to Texas but on St. Louis Southwestern Railway via Memphis, and was discontinued in 1952, and AFAICT it did not run on the current Texas Eagle route either. Someone with an Official Guide of that period can step in and verify or refute (calling Bill H)

 

[cirdan]

Texas Eagle Needs improvements. First, It should have a second branch to Houston so it can serve College Station. Also, it should skip Pontiac and Carlinville. Neither of those are major cities and are served by Lincoln Service..

But the Texas Eagle is complimentary to the Lincoln service, not totally independent of it. So eliminating these stops on the TE would effectively reduce the value of the Lincoln Service.

 

[fillyjonk]

Hey now, I've appreciated Mineola and boarded there in the past.

Mineola is where I always board. It's not the closest to me in terms of mileage, but it's the closest station I feel safe leaving my car at/braving the traffic to get to.

 

[daveyb99]

Texas Eagle Needs improvements. First, It should have a second branch to Houston so it can serve College Station. Also, it should skip Pontiac and Carlinville.

I totally agree about stops that could be eliminated to improve the OTP of the Eagle including San Marcos (SMC)and Taylor (TAY-UH OH-there goes my $6 Point Runs!)and Mineola in Texas. The dwell time in FTW and STL could also be shortened and the ridiculous Layover in SAS to connect with the Sunset Ltd. could also be shortened to a couple of hours thus improving the Calling times for such Major Markets as TUS and Maricopa(Phoenix). IF and when the Daily Eagle is implemented through the Kind offices of UP :help: perhaps a new schedule will ensure this!

Whoa ... you would advocate doing away with 3 Texas stops just so TUS could get a better time? Whoa ...

I agree with Carlinville (currently a flag stop) and Pontiac. I disagree with it affecting Lincoln Service as there are 4 trains daily along that route -- in fact, that service on #301 could ADD those stops.

 

[George Harris]

That was a 3 day a week service which presumably hurt it a lot for intercity Houston - Dallas travel. With a daily Texas Eagle, a daily split train or stub train over that route might be viable. The current TE and proposed revised TE/SL daily service schedule would put the Dallas-Houston service at convenient times of the day. However, the 6 hour trip time in that schedule is a major drawback.

The 6 hour schedule was not just a major draw back, it was the kiss of death. Likewise, the reliability. I was thet train once at College Station in 1993, I think it was. It was about an hour late and consisted of one coach. With a reasonably fast schedule, College Station would be a major source of passengers, but not with the speed and reliability this train had.

Using the BNSF line would have been no major improvement. It had and has a 40 mph speed limit for freight, which would have meant a 60 mph passenger limit at best, assuming the 40 mph is based on track condition. Thus probably a 5 hour schedule at best, and would miss College Station. The only town of any significance on this route is Corsicana. The line is fairly straight but would require a lot of work to be good for a passenger train speed of 79 mph or faster which would be necessary to restore teh 4 hour schedule. Given that the line had a 90 mph speed limt prior to the 1947 ICC order concerning sighan system reuirements, making the 4 hour schedule and fully complying with the 79 mph limit were probably mutually exclusive. (Based on an accident report, prior to the ICC order taking effect, the line had a 90 mph speed limit with no signals whatsoever. Block signals were installed so that the speed limit could be at least 79 mph post-ICC order effective date.) The accident report also gave the rail size as 90 lb/yd. Such speed on such track would not happen today. In the last years of passenger service on this route, the ride quality was described by some as stay seated and hang on.

However, if were decided to try for a semi-high speed train between Dallas and Houston, upgrading this line so that a maximum speed of 110 mph cold be run, giving an end ot end time of around 3 hours would be the best way to test it out. The question would be, is anyone willing to spend $500 million or so to try this out?

 

[Gratt]

In general, cutting stops is a bad idea. IMHO if a station picks up/drops off on average six passengers a day that would not otherwise take the train, it is worth it. This is especially true if they are coach seats that would otherwise be filled. I doubt the TE would gain a surge of ridership because of 30min or so saved.

As for improving the TE I actually have some suggestions- Add more stops

Namely for Uvalde and New Braunfels. But only add these stops if they do not cost Amtrak any money. That means someone else pays for the building/maintenance of the station as well as the utilities and volunteers to operate it.

New Branfels has a station that is a museum, unfortunately it is on another track less than a mile away. I dont know how to fix that.

As for a train to Houston, why dose it have to go though College Station? Yes, it would be nice but if Texas ever gets good rail service A&M will be taken care of (though one can argue it is a bad idea to have trains around so many Aggies :giggle: ).

There are two other tracks I think are possible. The 45 corridor that goes though Corsicana. And the one that branches off at Longview where the bus currently goes.

Texas could do like NC did and buy some old heritage equipment on the cheap. You would only need one set to connect to both trains.

The set could be P42-Bagcar-Coach-Coach-Coach-Cafe/Bizcar

For half the 15M that Texas got to study a HOU-DAL HSR this could be done.

 

[JonC]

I've wondered why there isn't a stop somewhere in Jefferson County, MO actually. It's a pretty good distance from St. Louis to Poplar Bluff, and a lot of people live in that area.

 

[kal-tex]

Some years ago (maybe 20+) I seem to recall a "historic" train that ran between Dallas/Fort Worth and Houston. Is my memory playing tricks on me, or was there really such a train? If so, what happened to it?

For those of us who travel from Chicago to Houston, the idea of a split of the Texas Eagle at Dallas/Fort Worth is not particularly appealing - it would add many hours to our travel time. A split at Longview would better serve us. On the other hand I can certainly appreciate the value of a regular DFW/Houston run. I'll be very optimistic and hope for BOTH!

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Some years ago (maybe 20+) I seem to recall a "historic" train that ran between Dallas/Fort Worth and Houston. Is my memory playing tricks on me, or was there really such a train? If so, what happened to it?

For those of us who travel from Chicago to Houston, the idea of a split of the Texas Eagle at Dallas/Fort Worth is not particularly appealing - it would add many hours to our travel time. A split at Longview would better serve us. On the other hand I can certainly appreciate the value of a regular DFW/Houston run. I'll be very optimistic and hope for BOTH!

That probably would have been the Lone Star.

 

[henryj]

Some years ago (maybe 20+) I seem to recall a "historic" train that ran between Dallas/Fort Worth and Houston. Is my memory playing tricks on me, or was there really such a train? If so, what happened to it?

For those of us who travel from Chicago to Houston, the idea of a split of the Texas Eagle at Dallas/Fort Worth is not particularly appealing - it would add many hours to our travel time. A split at Longview would better serve us. On the other hand I can certainly appreciate the value of a regular DFW/Houston run. I'll be very optimistic and hope for BOTH!

That probably would have been the Lone Star.

The Lone Star, alias Texas Chief, used the BNSF tracks and thus went from Houston through Temple to Fort Worth and then on to OKC, KC and Chicago. It never went through Dallas. The Texas Chief had a section that split at Gainesville and went down to Dallas.

Historically, there are two routes between Houston and Dallas, the SP/T&NO, now UP route through Hempstead, College Station and Hearne which is 264 miles long. Fastest time on this route was 4 1/2 hours. Passenger service ended in 1956 except for the overnight mail train the Owl which ran until 1958. The other route is the BNSF route which is 249 miles long and the fastest time was 4 hours. Service ended around 1965. As mentioned above riding it was a thrill as the track was rather rough. I rode this route maybe three times. I also rode the T&NO route as a little boy and don't remember much about it. I later rode a couple of football specials to College Station until the SP refused to run them any more. After that the MP ran the specials on their track through Spring and Navasota. The New Orleans Worlds Fair daylight made a trip up to Dallas on the T&NO route in 1984 I believe. Some friends and I followed it most of the way. We later rode the train to SAS on it's trip back to Portland. I rode the Amtrak Eagle from Dallas to Houston only once in the private car Good Cheer on a trip to the convention in St Louis. It was just about the last excursion the Good Cheer was used on.

 

[eagle628]

I agree with Carlinville (currently a flag stop) and Pontiac. I disagree with it affecting Lincoln Service as there are 4 trains daily along that route -- in fact, that service on #301 could ADD those stops.

But the Texas Eagle is the only train that makes a midday trip southbound, so it fills a large gap in the schedule. (northbound, that gap isn't filled by any train)

 

[George Harris]

I've wondered why there isn't a stop somewhere in Jefferson County, MO actually. It's a pretty good distance from St. Louis to Poplar Bluff, and a lot of people live in that area.

Uh, where are the "lots of people?"

 

[Ozark Southern]

I've wondered why there isn't a stop somewhere in Jefferson County, MO actually. It's a pretty good distance from St. Louis to Poplar Bluff, and a lot of people live in that area.

Uh, where are the "lots of people?"

Jefferson County is suburban St. Louis and has a population of over 200,000. However, the only town of any size that is on the Eagle's route is De Soto (~6800). Additionally, at the times the Eagle runs through, it'd stop in De Soto about 10PM southbound and about 6AM northbound. Not the greatest. Keeping in mind too that most of Jefferson County is still within the radius of St Louis public transit and thus they can easily reach Gateway Station via regional bus.

 

[abcnews]

I think the Amtrak plan is for the Texas Eagle to become a Chicago to LA train, and replace the Sunset Limited. I also think it will become a daily through train, and there will be a short regional train to connect SAS and Houston, and NOL. No more switching cars in SAS, just another stop...

 

[saxman]

The Lone Star (nee the Texas Chief pre-Amtrak) was a very succesful Train until it was eliminated due to Cost Cutting forced by clueless politicians similiar to the hacks we have in Congress and the White House now! Since the Eagle is my home Train (you cant' go anywhere without riding the Eagles :help: ) I totally agree about stops that could be eliminated to improve the OTP of the Eagle including San Marcos (SMC)and Taylor (TAY-UH OH-there goes my $6 Point Runs! )and Mineola in Texas. The dwell time in FTW and STL could also be shortened and the ridiculous Layover in SAS to connect with the Sunset Ltd. could also be shortened to a couple of hours thus improving the Calling times for such Major Markets as TUS and Maricopa(Phoenix). IF and when the Daily Eagle is implemented through the Kind offices of UP :help: perhaps a new schedule will ensure this!
Edited: correct Train name per jis' kind reminder/my bad!!

I might agree with eliminating Pontiac or Carlinville, but what is the point. The train takes 60 seconds to stop and let someone off. Hardly a time savings over the entire. And Mineola? That city would throw a fit if they lost Amtrak service. They have a brand new station that been restored to its former glory that the city paid for. I also might add that ridership at MIN went up 8.5% for Oct-Aug. 2011 for the same period in 2010. Revenue at that station ($390,390) went up 13.5% for the same period.

San Marcos is even more impressive. Ridership for Oct. through Aug 2011 went up 24.6%, and revenue went up 23.3%.

San Marcos had the highest jump in ridership for that period, verses all the other station on the Texas Eagle route. As far as revenue, it came in third, behind Cleburne and Taylor. I might add that Taylor had a 24.4% increase in revenue.

So taking Mineola, Taylor, and San Marcos combined, they took in $935,644 in revenue for the 9 month period. I'll assume it'll be over $1 million when the year is complete. That's over $1 million in revenue, Amtrak would lose should they stop serving those three Texas stations.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Chris: Thanks for the figures on the three Texas stops! I based my suggestion on eliminating these stops based purely on the time it took versus the number of riders boarding/deboarding without the benefit of the figures you sight and the fact that these were unstaffed stations!! I therefore withdraw my suggestion, my bad but do think that the Long dwell times in SAS/FTW and STL can be shortnend, and IF and When the Daily Eagle starts perhaps a new schedule will allow this to take place! As to the Missouri and Illinois stops, I haven noticed many people using Alton or Pontiac and when the new stop in Hope,Ark. comes online another small town will add timne to the schedule! As Rosannarosanadana used to say, "never mind!"

 

[tonys96]

Chris: Thanks for the figures on the three Texas stops! I based my suggestion on eliminating these stops based purely on the time it took versus the number of riders boarding/deboarding without the benefit of the figures you sight and the fact that these were unstaffed stations!! I therefore withdraw my suggestion, my bad but do think that the Long dwell times in SAS/FTW and STL can be shortnend, and IF and When the Daily Eagle starts perhaps a new schedule will allow this to take place! As to the Missouri and Illinois stops, I haven noticed many people using Alton or Pontiac and when the new stop in Hope,Ark. comes online another small town will add timne to the schedule! As Rosannarosanadana used to say, "never mind!"

As someone who used to make this misake until it was pointed out to me......

It was Emily Litella who said "never mind"......and Rosanne Rosannadanna who said "It's always somethin'" which went on to be the title for the late, great,Gilda Radner's autobiography.

 

[Gratt]

I think it is important to keep in mind that the upgrades to the STL-CHI track are complete it will also benefit the TE. Also work is being done in Fort Worth that will mean the This will happen irrespective of if the train goes daily west of SAS.

I for one would not mind some of that time be used to add extra stations. As Saxman pointed out, they really can add extra revenue.