Wishlist for Superliner III's

[cirdan]

Chicago clearances are so tight that there is question whether it will allow future HSR service to clear the 25Kv CAT for superliners ?

From what I've read on another thread, so much concrete is falling from the ceiling that clearences are getting higher all the time.

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

Chicago clearances are so tight that there is question whether it will allow future HSR service to clear the 25Kv CAT for superliners ?

From what I've read on another thread, so much concrete is falling from the ceiling that clearences are getting higher all the time.

untill everything above falls into a big pile, and once it's cleared away, and then you have infinite clearance :giggle:

 

[jis]

Chicago clearances are so tight that there is question whether it will allow future HSR service to clear the 25Kv CAT for superliners ?

From what I've read on another thread, so much concrete is falling from the ceiling that clearences are getting higher all the time.

untill everything above falls into a big pile, and once it's cleared away, and then you have infinite clearance :giggle:

OTOH, it is possible that nothing will get cleared away and they will just go and build a 12 lane highway and a biiiig bus station instead. Never wish for such odd things. You never know what the unintended consequences could be.

 

[railiner]

Superliners already do not have toilets in roomettes, so why are we even talking about it as an improvement?

Viewliners do, and I am not a fan, so I don't want that spreading.

I believe that in another thread I read that the next-gen Viewliner roomettes would not have toilets...

 

[jis]

Superliners already do not have toilets in roomettes, so why are we even talking about it as an improvement?

Viewliners do, and I am not a fan, so I don't want that spreading.

I believe that in another thread I read that the next-gen Viewliner roomettes would not have toilets...

That is correct. This toilet in roomette thing is just a red herring IMHO. They won't happen in any new cars. Not in Superliners and not in Viewliners. That is already a 100% certainty.

Might as well throw into the wishlist that we do not want steam ejector air conditioning systems either.

 

[railiner]

I'll see your steam ejector air conditioning, and raise you prest-o-log galley ovens

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

what about a wood burning pizza oven? Or coal burning?

 

[CCC1007]

what about a wood burning pizza oven? Or coal burning?

Bad idea

 

[Maglev]

How about seats that covert to lie-flat beds in a 1 X 1 herringbone arrangement for Business Class or Slumbercoach? I am not sure how the overall density would be compared to roomettes, which of course can accommodate two (well, sort of in a Superliner...). Something along the lines of what international airlines are doing for business class.

 

[railiner]

How about seats that covert to lie-flat beds in a 1 X 1 herringbone arrangement for Business Class or Slumbercoach? I am not sure how the overall density would be compared to roomettes, which of course can accommodate two (well, sort of in a Superliner...). Something along the lines of what international airlines are doing for business class.

Thought about that, and I believe that you would have more accommodations with upper and lower berths, as in Roomettes, as you are utilizing the height of the cabin to double up the number, while the lie-flat seats would not.
In addition, some people might not like sitting at an angle, (whether toward the aisle or window), the herringbone layout would necessitate...

 

[ScouseAndy]

We once drew up a BR Mk3 train carriage with Japanese style sleeper pods running across the coach with a side corridor whilst at Uni. Using a standard sized Sleeper pod (2m x 1m x 1.25m) , we worked out that you get could have 17 rows stacked 3 high giving you a capacity of 51 per carriage each compared with the max capacity of 26 of a UK BR MK3 sleeper. For US trains this could certainly be increased considerably or allowing more space per pod.

At the time we didn't think that the traveling public was ready for such a concept and market research backed us up. Whether that has changed I don't know but I would love my concept to take off, as it would potentially half the cost of sleeper travel

 

[jis]

Indian Railways manage to fit in 72 berths in their open section 3 tier sleepers. Those are 65' ICF (Schlieren designed derived) cars. American cars are 85' long.

 

[railiner]

Slumbercoaches accommodated up to 40, in the 24 single/8 double configuration...

If they had ever made a Slumbercoach with all doubles, I figure it could hold about 24 doubles, for a total of 48 berth's...

 

[jis]

An all Roomette Viewliner could theoretically hold 60 or so, no?

 

[railiner]

An all Roomette Viewliner could theoretically hold 60 or so, no?

I don't think so....that would mean 15 on each side of the aisle...think about the 22 Roomette Pullmans...those are about the same length as a Viewliner Roomette, and there were 11 on each side of the aisle, plus a public restroom, a porters berth, and linen and equipment lockers, not to mention a vestibule at one end...

 

[jis]

Yeah my bad. double counting. It would be 30 or so, not 60 or so.

The way IR does it in 3 Tier (open section) Sleepers is by having 9 modules of 6 + 2 berths. 6 on the compartment side and two along the other wall opposite the compartment (the berths that Eddy has been riding in India) for 72 or so. In the 2 Tier (open section) Sleepers they have 4 + 2 per module and 9 of those for 54 berths or thereabouts. In AC 1st Class they have 5 4 berth compartments and two 2 berth ones for a total of 24 AFAIR.

The non-AC Sleeper is pretty much the same as the AC 3-Tier Sleeper in layout. At one point they tried to put three berth along the wall and the passengers rose in revolt. I don't know if they still have them around.

 

[railiner]

The Heritage dorms, such as found in the galley car, of a twin-unit diner, as well as baggage dorms, also had berth's stacked three-high...of course the steward had a private room within

 

[A Voice]

Slumbercoaches accommodated up to 40, in the 24 single/8 double configuration...

If they had ever made a Slumbercoach with all doubles, I figure it could hold about 24 doubles, for a total of 48 berth's...

An all Roomette Viewliner could theoretically hold 60 or so, no?

An all-Roomette Superliner should have room for about 26 rooms and still retain the special bedroom, for a total of 54 berths. This seems far more practical than trying to shoehorn passengers in unfamiliar accommodations. Such an economy Superliner sleeper would have just five fewer seats, potentially, than a single level long-distance coach (Amfleet II).

 

[railiner]

Such a car would be even more remarkable, if you would compare it with some of the lowest density transcontinental chair cars of the streamlined era...

The Union Pacific cars carried only 44 leg rest seats, plus a crew seat. It did have very large seperate dressing rooms containing sofas, sinks, and toilet rooms at each end.

The Milwaukee Road, built some streamline chair cars in its own shops, that only carried 40 legrest seats, with huge lounges at each end, for its Olympian Hiawatha...

The only cars seating less than those, were first class parlor cars...

Now contrast those, with early C&NW gallery commuter cars crammed with 169 seats...or LIRR MU's with 132 seats...

 

[Chessie]

I like the idea of open sections (with curtains). A person can book an individual berth, either upper or lower. Same number of pax as a all roomette car but more flexible.

 

[jis]

AFAIR it is the 2-Tier Sleepers on IR that have curtains. The 3-Tier Sleepers do not. And you do pay a significant premium for the pleasure of having a little extra space between your nose and the berth or the roof above you, and the curtains.

 

[Alexandria Nick]

There are small elevators that could fill the bill on the market already, but any kind of mechanical or electrical failure could leave a vulnerable person trapped for a long time in many areas. Not sure that would fly. You would still need the stairs for safety, so you would be taking space away from something else. No reason to get wheelchairs to the upper level in the sleepers, they won't fit in the aisles.

In a hypothetical, couldn't you mount the lift where the luggage racks are on the lower level? Then trade space on the lower level (given that you'd need less space, as the necessity to accommodate people with mobility issues on the lower has then gone down) for luggage racks? Or only install elevators in coach-baggage cars? Elevator goes where the rack was and then there's racks in the coach baggage area instead of "big open room?"

The California cars do have a gallery elevators for the cafe car. At some point, the idea was that the elevator would be also used for transporting disabled passengers to the second level, but due to evacuation rules this was scrapped from what I saw in a video once of a tour of the Oakland yard. Another words, if your in a wheelchair and come upstairs, how is this person going to be evacuated in an emergency from the second level.

Larger stairs are already used on the corridor trains so those could probably just moved to the new cars.

That's a pretty good point. Sounds a lot like the problem with flying wing airliners: how do you evacuate something with seating like a movie theater in under a minute? You can't!

 

[jis]

But just because someone normally needs to use a wheelchair does not prevent them from flying merely because of the difficulty in evacuating them, does it?

 

[A Voice]

There are small elevators that could fill the bill on the market already, but any kind of mechanical or electrical failure could leave a vulnerable person trapped for a long time in many areas. Not sure that would fly. You would still need the stairs for safety, so you would be taking space away from something else. No reason to get wheelchairs to the upper level in the sleepers, they won't fit in the aisles.

But just because someone normally needs to use a wheelchair does not prevent them from flying merely because of the difficulty in evacuating them, does it?

Nor does it keep persons who need wheelchairs or any mobility device out of upper floors in multi-story buildings, off theme park rides, or many other places where evacuation - or merely routine exiting - becomes problematic if the elevator is unavailable for any reason. Why would a passenger car be held to a different standard?

Further, it is not only persons in wheelchairs who would benefit from an elevator - including in the sleepers with narrow aisles. Many people may have difficulty with stairs but do not use a wheelchair; They may have a cane or rollator or other device, or still be fully ambulatory, but just can't do the stairs. The elevator would be useful to many passengers even if wheelchairs can't navigate the upper level (though that begs the question: Could a custom wheelchair or transport chair be designed to fit the aisles and vestibules of a Superliner?) since once someone us up there, they have access to the diner and lounge with everyone else and aren't confined to the lower level of one car.

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

There are small elevators that could fill the bill on the market already, but any kind of mechanical or electrical failure could leave a vulnerable person trapped for a long time in many areas. Not sure that would fly. You would still need the stairs for safety, so you would be taking space away from something else. No reason to get wheelchairs to the upper level in the sleepers, they won't fit in the aisles.

But just because someone normally needs to use a wheelchair does not prevent them from flying merely because of the difficulty in evacuating them, does it?

Nor does it keep persons who need wheelchairs or any mobility device out of upper floors in multi-story buildings, off theme park rides, or many other places where evacuation - or merely routine exiting - becomes problematic if the elevator is unavailable for any reason. Why would a passenger car be held to a different standard?

Further, it is not only persons in wheelchairs who would benefit from an elevator - including in the sleepers with narrow aisles. Many people may have difficulty with stairs but do not use a wheelchair; They may have a cane or rollator or other device, or still be fully ambulatory, but just can't do the stairs. The elevator would be useful to many passengers even if wheelchairs can't navigate the upper level (though that begs the question: Could a custom wheelchair or transport chair be designed to fit the aisles and vestibules of a Superliner?) since once someone us up there, they have access to the diner and lounge with everyone else and aren't confined to the lower level of one car.

Amtrak could "rent" them out for the duration of the ride, and then store them in the crew car or baggage car.