Wisconsin High Speed Rail Stopped

[PRR 60]

...ignore the lazy do-nothing naysayers in this thread and take a few minutes to make their voices heard.

"Lazy?" "Do-nothing?" "Naysayer?" Hmm. Let me think... I'm not a "naysayer." Hey, I'm a retiree now (since July). The first two are part of the retiree job description.

 

[PRR 60]

...Walker has publicly stated his condition to move forward, namely, "an ironclad agreement" with the Feds about not having Wisconsin taxpayers pay for operating costs. I suspect that this is how the situation will eventually resolve; if the Feds don't pick up 100%, I'm betting Walker will cave if they match the Hiawatha support level, which is 90%.

Here's hoping!

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

The fact that the feds (namely Amtrak) might be willing to absorb 90% of the operating deficit of the line came up right before the election. Now, between you and me, I have no idea where that idea came from. If the Hiawatha service does have that deal, it's a great deal - much better than any other state service has. Regardless, I agree that if the feds back up that number with a signed agreement to cover the 20-year must-run obligation, I have no doubt that Mr. Walker would jump on it. Left or right, blue or red, people working are better than people not working (unless you are retired - see my post above ).

Sadly. I would not hold my breath. If they did that, every other state with supported Amtrak services would demand the same deal. Most pay 100% of any deficit. But, as you said, "Here's hoping!"

 

[rrdude]

Whether you support rail or not, why would you expect a man who ran for office with a major part of his campaign being a pledge to stop the train, to now change his mind now because a few people call saying they support the train? You could probably get 100,000 people in Madison to call and ask him to continue the project, but there are probably as many people in Green Bay who would call if he, in fact, changed his mind.

The man ran for office pledging to stop the project because, in his mind, $7.5 million per year to operate the line was not justified by the transportation benefit to be provided. He may be right, or he may be wrong, but it really does not matter now. He won. I don't expect him to betray the people who voted for him based on a few phone calls from people who did not. It doesn't take a genius for his office people to figure out the how people calling to keep the train voted in the election. Imagine the opposite: a candidate who ran supporting the train, won the election, and then announced he was going to cancel the project. Now, that would be a reason to call.

In life, you win some, you lose some. Either way, you move on to the next battle.

608-261-9200

Soooooo, politicians "never change their mind" or "go back on their campaign promises"? I think they do, and I usually DON'T like it WHEN they do, nor would this Gov's backers, IF he were to not actively continue his opposition to the train.

But, the facts are this: For any myriad of reasons, politicians DO, and with some frequency, change their mind and/or stances on issues. If my itty-bitty phone call helps in even the slightest way, them I'm making that call......

608-261-9200

 

[rrdude]

But I do have to wonder if they might not be using caller ID, in which case they could well dismiss any phone calls not from a Wisconsin area code. Not saying that they are doing that, but it is a possibility that must be considered.

They'd be hard pressed to make those numbers stick, as people have cell phones, and America is very mobile. I can no longer count on the area code / phone number to predict where the call is coming from, geographically....

Daily, daily, daily, I get phone calls from clients in NJ, who have a "Colorado" area code, same for Michigan --> North Carolina, it goes on an on......

 

[Devil's Advocate]

They'd be hard pressed to make those numbers stick, as people have cell phones, and America is very mobile. I can no longer count on the area code / phone number to predict where the call is coming from, geographically. Daily, daily, daily, I get phone calls from clients in NJ, who have a "Colorado" area code, same for Michigan --> North Carolina, it goes on an on.

You're absolutely right. I get calls from all over the country and even the world that do not reflect the actual origin of the call. You cannot count on the caller ID to mean much of anything. That Californian area code could just as easily have originated in India for all you know. It's true that large scale PBX systems don't typically interface with the same "Caller ID" systems consumer's are familiar with, but that doesn't mean they're any more accurate at determining actual locations in situations like this. It just means they're getting their data from a source that's not as easy to intentionally fake.

 

[AlanB]

...Walker has publicly stated his condition to move forward, namely, "an ironclad agreement" with the Feds about not having Wisconsin taxpayers pay for operating costs. I suspect that this is how the situation will eventually resolve; if the Feds don't pick up 100%, I'm betting Walker will cave if they match the Hiawatha support level, which is 90%.

Here's hoping!

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

The fact that the feds (namely Amtrak) might be willing to absorb 90% of the operating deficit of the line came up right before the election. Now, between you and me, I have no idea where that idea came from. If the Hiawatha service does have that deal, it's a great deal - much better than any other state service has. Regardless, I agree that if the feds back up that number with a signed agreement to cover the 20-year must-run obligation, I have no doubt that Mr. Walker would jump on it. Left or right, blue or red, people working are better than people not working (unless you are retired - see my post above ).

Sadly. I would not hold my breath. If they did that, every other state with supported Amtrak services would demand the same deal. Most pay 100% of any deficit. But, as you said, "Here's hoping!"

I agree, I'm not sure where they came up with that 90% number. Here's what I do see:

First, both Wisconsin & Illinois help to support this train, and it does appear that Amtrak is carrying some of the load too.

Ticket revenues for the train were $13,300,511 for 2009. Total revenue reported however was $22 Million for the train. That means that approximately $8.7M came from some other source, be it some advertising, the limited food service, or subsidies from the two states that sponsor the service. I can't find the story right now, despite looking for it for several minutes, but I seem to recall the Wisconsin Sec Trans saying that they spent either $6M or $7M annually for the Hiawatha's.

That would leave Illinios and incidentals to pick up the rest.

Now, against that $22M in revenue, Amtrak spends $25.2M before depreciation running the service all in. That leaves $3.2M that Amtrak would appear to be picking up. But that's certainly not 90%, not by a long shot.

 

[Eric S]

Operating costs of the Hiawathas not covered by fares are split between WI & IL, with WI picking up 75% and IL 25%. (That information can be found in the agreement signed between Amtrak and WisDOT.) Recently, it has been reported that the feds pick up 90% of the portion that WI is responsible for paying, but it has never been specified how/why that is the case. Perhaps WI is using CMAQ funds, but I believe those are usually only good for a certain number of years (typically 3, if I'm not mistaken). I seem to recall that Maine used CMAQ funding to pay for Downeaster costs until recently.

 

[AlanB]

Eric,

I'm not sure if it was CMAQ funds or some other funding source, but the Downeaster was largely subsidized by the Fed for the first 5 years of operations IIRC. That I believe expired last year, perhaps it was 2008, I'm not really sure.

I've no idea if that is indeed what Wisconsin is doing.

 

[BigBlueBuddha]

$100 says that the Milwaukee-Madison train is alive and well.

I'll see your $100 and raise you another $100.

Hopefully, you will soon owe me $200! :lol: (I kid daxomni)

Walker open to rail

Improvements to the Builder? How about routing it through Madison?

 

[Monon81]

And after Walker gave that interview with Mike Gousha (story linked in Kwitcherballiakin's post above), he high-tailed it out of town for a Republican governor's meeting.

Meanwhile, at the Talgo plant on the north side of Milwaukee, a rally was held with 200 in attendance.

Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

And Walker's mouthpiece trotted out the names of the Wisconsin Transportation Builders Association and a couple of construction unions.

Biz Times

The Biz Times, consistently pro-rail, also has five featured blog entries over the last five days.

Sheldon Lubar, a businessman, philanthropist and big name in Milwaukee, who happens to be a Republican, spoke out in favor of rail.

The Business Journal

Walker's transition office phone number was taken off its web page last week.

608-261-9200

Also out on I-94 headed out of Milwaukee, an advert from the Wisconsin Democratic Party:

 

[Monon81]

The political theater continues in Wisconsin.

Three Wisconsin Republican congressmen Tuesday introduced a bill that would allow Wisconsin and other states to return federal high-speed rail funds to reduce the federal budget deficit.

the story from Journal-Sentinel

One of the sponsors is Tom Petri, who was for it before he was against it. Watertown, one of the proposed stops, is in Petri's district.

Before joining GOP colleagues Tuesday in calling high-speed rail a “boondoggle,” Rep. Tom Petri of Fond du Lac co-chaired a bipartisan group of lawmakers last year that sought to bring the project to their home states in the Midwest.

full story

Meanwhile, in North Carolina, Ray LaHood ups the pressure...

U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said this morning that federal officials would soon announce a grant that could help bring high-speed rail to North Carolina.
...

LaHood said the money could be available because the federal government will reallocate $1.2 billion for high-speed rail projects that had been slated to go to Wisconsin and Ohio.

Charlotte Observer

Similar story from Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

 

[Trogdor]

The next episode in the saga:

Bureau lowers cost to run high-speed rail

 

[Eric S]

The next episode in the saga:

Bureau lowers cost to run high-speed rail

Estimated annual operating subsidies drop from $7.5 million to $4.7 million. Unfortunately, I doubt this will matter much.

That article also, sort of, explained how WI has been using federal dollars to cover 80-90% of the WI share of operating costs. (Costs not covered by fares are split between WI-75% and IL-25% per the bi-state agreement.) WI has used CMAQ funding in some years and general federal highway/transportation funding in other years.

 

[PRR 60]

The next episode in the saga:

Bureau lowers cost to run high-speed rail

Estimated annual operating subsidies drop from $7.5 million to $4.7 million. Unfortunately, I doubt this will matter much.

That article also, sort of, explained how WI has been using federal dollars to cover 80-90% of the WI share of operating costs. (Costs not covered by fares are split between WI-75% and IL-25% per the bi-state agreement.) WI has used CMAQ funding in some years and general federal highway/transportation funding in other years.

Rightly or wrongly, I suspect that opponents of the line will look suspiciously at any dramatic 11th hour reductions of the estimated operating cost. My opinion is that the only hope for this project is getting the federal DOT to step-up and guarantee a relatively low operating cost obligation by the state. It would have to be more tangible than a "maybe" using this plan or that. I don't see that happening.