What makes a well located Amtrak station? Which stations well located

[Metra Electric Rider]

Of course, wasn't GCT built in the middle of nowhere and the city grew up around it?

 

[PerRock]

After looking at Google map, I think Chicago seems like a particularly well located station for a large city. Philly station is also pretty good.

NYP has better transit connections then CUS. CUS transit connections are really only bus & suburan rail (Metra) all CTA connections are a few blocks walk.

(Looking primarily at location & transit connections) Stations that are probably better then Chicago include: BOS, 30th St., WAS and LAX. SEA & PDX are probably on par with CUS.

Detroit isn't really that bad; the city really only has buses, of which you can get at the station. While not "downtown" it's very close and arguably better situated on the major commercial thoroughfare, Woodward Ave. When the Q-Line/M-1 Rail is finished (scheduled to be later this year, so probably next year) there will be a stop for Amtrak right outside.

peter

 

[Chessie]

After looking at Google map, I think Chicago seems like a particularly well located station for a large city. Philly station is also pretty good.

NYP has better transit connections then CUS. CUS transit connections are really only bus & suburan rail (Metra) all CTA connections are a few blocks walk.

(Looking primarily at location & transit connections) Stations that are probably better then Chicago include: BOS, 30th St., WAS and LAX. SEA & PDX are probably on par with CUS.

Detroit isn't really that bad; the city really only has buses, of which you can get at the station. While not "downtown" it's very close and arguably better situated on the major commercial thoroughfare, Woodward Ave. When the Q-Line/M-1 Rail is finished (scheduled to be later this year, so probably next year) there will be a stop for Amtrak right outside.

peter

I see. I hear the old Chicago station had a better location.

But then NYP is also a few blocks away from Grand Central.

 

[PerRock]

After looking at Google map, I think Chicago seems like a particularly well located station for a large city. Philly station is also pretty good.

NYP has better transit connections then CUS. CUS transit connections are really only bus & suburan rail (Metra) all CTA connections are a few blocks walk.

(Looking primarily at location & transit connections) Stations that are probably better then Chicago include: BOS, 30th St., WAS and LAX. SEA & PDX are probably on par with CUS.

Detroit isn't really that bad; the city really only has buses, of which you can get at the station. While not "downtown" it's very close and arguably better situated on the major commercial thoroughfare, Woodward Ave. When the Q-Line/M-1 Rail is finished (scheduled to be later this year, so probably next year) there will be a stop for Amtrak right outside.

peter

I see. I hear the old Chicago station had a better location.

But then NYP is also a few blocks away from Grand Central.

So currently Chicago has 4 active terminal stations in the Loop area, only one of them are served by Amtrak, the rest are only Metra services. LaSalle is probably the station with the closest connection to the L.

peter

 

[Thirdrail7]

Your premise is highly subjective and it shows with your comment regarding PJC.

Putting a station in the most densely populated may work for some but it turns others off and has pushed people away from trains in the past. This is why suburban "beltway" stations started taking root and why they continue to thrive.

While PJC isn't a beltway station, you have to look at why it thrived. It captured riders in the rapidly expanding rural turned housing community. Additionally, it is located right off the Route 1 corridor, the route 33 corridor and interstate 295. This brought in a lot of Pennsylvanian traffic didn't want to be bothered with the train station right in the middle of downtown TRE (do you see how that works?)

As such, traffic levels got so high at PJC, they built Hamilton to ease the levels. Hamilton is another example of strategic location. It is also situated right off RTE 1, not too far from Route 33 and is right off Interstate 295. It also siphoned Pennsylvania passengers from PJC, TRE and even Levittown-Tullytown.

That is because. not unlike Metropark, BWI, NCR and RTE, these train stations are located near major arteries that feed the stationso it thrives as a park and ride.

Opinions are meant to be subjective but I am all ears. Which station would be a beltway station?

I think one of the main reasons the PJC location is still well utilized is because of its connection to Princeton. I would think these days Hamilton would be more desirable for PA riders who do not want to bother with TRE.

The stations like MET,BWI,NCR and RTE are examples. PJC was built many years prior to Hamilton. As such, PA passengers flooded PJC and parking lots grew and grew. Additionally, mass development filled the former farm area between NBK and PRT causing more congestion.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

So currently Chicago has 4 active terminal stations in the Loop area, only one of them are served by Amtrak, the rest are only Metra services. LaSalle is probably the station with the closest connection to the L.

peter

Randolph/Millennium has indoor connections to the Red and Rlue lines via the pedway (when open) and was a block from the Brown, Green, Purple and Orange lines, however, with the rebuilding of two loop stations into one, that connection (if it even was one) will be lost and be a block further south.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

My two cents to add to the PJC discussion:

On my commute, I take a light rail from my town to TRE, then change trains. My commuter train starts at TRE, stops at Hamilton (super-serious commuters who never smile and already look unhappy at the beginning of their commute), and then PJC, where I get off (my office is on the Princeton Junction corporate corridor). Perhaps it's simply the contrast with TRE every day, but PJC seems like a good station to me, except for the crowds of commuters getting on the train to go to New York as I get off--I get off at the same door every day now and have even gotten that group to say hello to me and leave a path for me to exit the train!

PJC looks like it is in the middle of nowhere--however, there is the Dinky to Princeton, plus several buses. Many corporations and hotels provide shuttle service. Parking would be tough, but most people seem to use one of the above options or get dropped off. There are also taxis, but hardly anyone uses them, with the other options available.

There are waiting rooms on each side, and the one on the New York side is staffed and sells tickets. I have never felt unsafe there, and I wish more trains would stop there as another option in central Jersey besides Trenton.

 

[Chatter163]

No. That midtown area, was essentially uptown when GCT was built. The areas just north were farmland, but the area around GCT was growing from the early 1800s, and the railroad's arrival in the 1830s hastened that growth. By the time the first GCT opened in 1871, the city was expanding ever northward. The subways' arrival in the very early 1900s extended the growth into the Bronx.

 

[me_little_me]

I think Tampa is one of the best.

Close to downtown. Walking distance

Close to cruise ports.

Free daytime parking

Free overnight parking

Safe area

Rental car companies will pick you up.

 

[Chessie]

The stations like MET,BWI,NCR and RTE are examples. PJC was built many years prior to Hamilton. As such, PA passengers flooded PJC and parking lots grew and grew. Additionally, mass development filled the former farm area between NBK and PRT causing more congestion.

When you say beltway, do you mean along side a highway? Or at a junction of two highways?

My two cents to add to the PJC discussion:

On my commute, I take a light rail from my town to TRE, then change trains. My commuter train starts at TRE, stops at Hamilton (super-serious commuters who never smile and already look unhappy at the beginning of their commute), and then PJC, where I get off (my office is on the Princeton Junction corporate corridor). Perhaps it's simply the contrast with TRE every day, but PJC seems like a good station to me, except for the crowds of commuters getting on the train to go to New York as I get off--I get off at the same door every day now and have even gotten that group to say hello to me and leave a path for me to exit the train!

PJC looks like it is in the middle of nowhere--however, there is the Dinky to Princeton, plus several buses. Many corporations and hotels provide shuttle service. Parking would be tough, but most people seem to use one of the above options or get dropped off. There are also taxis, but hardly anyone uses them, with the other options available.

There are waiting rooms on each side, and the one on the New York side is staffed and sells tickets. I have never felt unsafe there, and I wish more trains would stop there as another option in central Jersey besides Trenton.

I think we share a very similar commute though mine is only weekly or twice a month, between U Penn and Princeton. May I ask how do you get from the station to your office?

Parking at the PJC is indeed tough. And that indeed is my main issue with this station, maybe not so much its location, but its parking situation. The way I see it, a station should either be connected to a good robust local public transportation system or have a huge affordable parking lot. I understand it is not always feasible. In well populated suburban areas it is often difficult to achieve either.

My ultimate wish is that NEC had gone directly through Princeton so that Dinky is not unnecessary but then that would be too selfish.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

Longhai--

Your commute does sound much longer than mine--I'm assuming you take SEPTA, NJT, and then the Dinky and then do the reverse to go home, as my commuting friends who live in Philly and work in Princeton do? I like the idea of the Dinky but don't have to add it to my commute, so that's probably why I think of it as charming instead of annoying! I dislike the Trenton part the most, but there is no way to avoid it.

My office is a 20-minute walk (shorter for people in better shape) from PJC, and we also have an office shuttle that we share with another company. I take the shuttle in the morning, then walk in the afternoon if it's nice weather (it's safe, and a pleasant walk) or take the shuttle in bad weather. We did not have a shuttle until a few years ago, so I did have to walk both ways in bad weather, and that was difficult. (I had asked for a shuttle years ago and was told that nobody would use it. Then several millenials, who are years younger than me, joined the company and demanded that they get a shuttle immediately because they shouldn't have to walk. So the company arranged for the shuttle, and the people who had demanded it left several months later to go elsewhere, but we still have the shuttle. Now, when I need something, I just find a millennial and persuade them they need it and suggest they go get it!) :giggle:

 

[trainman74]

I think Tampa is one of the best.

When I was growing up there, that would not have been the prevailing opinion -- but things in the general vicinity of the station have drastically improved over the past couple of decades. (So has the station itself!)

 

[nshvlcat]

The flag stop in Newbern, TN (NBN) is very well situated. It can serve people in southwestern KY, northwestern TN, eastern AR, and the bootheel of MO. It is a renovated original 1920 depot with an indoor waiting area, restrooms, and free long term and short term parking. It is located directly across the street from the Newbern Police Dept. According to the Mayor of Newbern, a policeman meets and greets all arriving/departing CONO passengers . Approximately 4,000 people use this little station annually.

 

[Thirdrail7]

The stations like MET,BWI,NCR and RTE are examples. PJC was built many years prior to Hamilton. As such, PA passengers flooded PJC and parking lots grew and grew. Additionally, mass development filled the former farm area between NBK and PRT causing more congestion.

When you say beltway, do you mean along side a highway? Or at a junction of two highways?

Here's an idea since you're obviously not getting the basic concept. Take a look at a map...and then look at the stations listed above and see what they have in common. You'll see that they are on the outskirts of major population areas that allow for easy access to major highways.

My ultimate wish is that NEC had gone directly through Princeton so that Dinky is not unnecessary but then that would be too selfish.

It did. There used to be direct service to PJT many, many years ago. That line was double tracked and connected directly to the NEC at NASSUA interlocking. It reached all tracks on the NEC.

 

[Ryan]

The stations like MET,BWI,NCR and RTE are examples. PJC was built many years prior to Hamilton. As such, PA passengers flooded PJC and parking lots grew and grew. Additionally, mass development filled the former farm area between NBK and PRT causing more congestion.

When you say beltway, do you mean along side a highway? Or at a junction of two highways?

Here's an idea since you're obviously not getting the basic concept. Take a look at a map...and then look at the stations listed above and see what they have in common. You'll see that they are on the outskirts of major population areas that allow for easy access to major highways.

Maybe this will help the kid out: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/beltway

 

[jis]

I think, my home station, 55 miles from my home, at Kissimmee is rather well located right in the downtown with very good bus connection to many places in the Orlando metro area, and soon to get SunRail connection to downtown and eventually to the Orlando International Airport, augmenting the bus connectivity. Also good free overnight and long term parking for Amtrak passengers (needs registration with the station agent). It is also close to US 192 for what it is worth. That is the road I take - a straight shot from Melbourne to Kissimmee. The only place of note on the way being St. Cloud.

 

[Chessie]

Longhai--

Your commute does sound much longer than mine--I'm assuming you take SEPTA, NJT, and then the Dinky and then do the reverse to go home, as my commuting friends who live in Philly and work in Princeton do? I like the idea of the Dinky but don't have to add it to my commute, so that's probably why I think of it as charming instead of annoying! I dislike the Trenton part the most, but there is no way to avoid it.

My office is a 20-minute walk (shorter for people in better shape) from PJC, and we also have an office shuttle that we share with another company. I take the shuttle in the morning, then walk in the afternoon if it's nice weather (it's safe, and a pleasant walk) or take the shuttle in bad weather. We did not have a shuttle until a few years ago, so I did have to walk both ways in bad weather, and that was difficult. (I had asked for a shuttle years ago and was told that nobody would use it. Then several millenials, who are years younger than me, joined the company and demanded that they get a shuttle immediately because they shouldn't have to walk. So the company arranged for the shuttle, and the people who had demanded it left several months later to go elsewhere, but we still have the shuttle. Now, when I need something, I just find a millennial and persuade them they need it and suggest they go get it!) :giggle:

I think I will take the millennial experience as a positive.

The stations like MET,BWI,NCR and RTE are examples. PJC was built many years prior to Hamilton. As such, PA passengers flooded PJC and parking lots grew and grew. Additionally, mass development filled the former farm area between NBK and PRT causing more congestion.

When you say beltway, do you mean along side a highway? Or at a junction of two highways?

Here's an idea since you're obviously not getting the basic concept. Take a look at a map...and then look at the stations listed above and see what they have in common. You'll see that they are on the outskirts of major population areas that allow for easy access to major highways.

My ultimate wish is that NEC had gone directly through Princeton so that Dinky is not unnecessary but then that would be too selfish.

It did. There used to be direct service to PJT many, many years ago. That line was double tracked and connected directly to the NEC at NASSUA interlocking. It reached all tracks on the NEC.

It might surprise you but I looked at the map and didn't see any overwhelming patterns. MET is not on what is considered a beltway. Too bad the PJT was changed.

The stations like MET,BWI,NCR and RTE are examples. PJC was built many years prior to Hamilton. As such, PA passengers flooded PJC and parking lots grew and grew. Additionally, mass development filled the former farm area between NBK and PRT causing more congestion.

When you say beltway, do you mean along side a highway? Or at a junction of two highways?

Here's an idea since you're obviously not getting the basic concept. Take a look at a map...and then look at the stations listed above and see what they have in common. You'll see that they are on the outskirts of major population areas that allow for easy access to major highways.

Maybe this will help the kid out: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/beltway

Again it might surprise you but I looked at the map and didn't see any overwhelming patterns. MET is not on what is considered a beltway.

 

[jis]

Who cares whether MET is on a "beltway" or not? It is close to a very major highway, the Garden State Parkway (Exit 131 and 131A), and just one exit away from US Rt. 1 and two exists away from NJ Turnpike Exit 11 and I-287/Rt 440 (which is actually a beltway of sorts (though I have no idea why that is important), via the GSP..

The pattern is that all of those stations have easy access from major arterial highways.

 

[Chessie]

Who cares whether MET is on a "beltway" or not? It is close to a very major highway, the Garden State Parkway (Exit 131 and 131A), and just one exit away from US Rt. 1 and two exists away from NJ Turnpike Exit 11 and I-287/Rt 440 (which is actually a beltway of sorts (though I have no idea why that is important), via the GSP..

The pattern is that all of those stations have easy access from major arterial highways.

That's my current interpretation as well.

The way the phrase "beltway station" was brought up in this thread made me think there might be a very specific definition. But the way it was later presented in this thread, apparently a so-called beltway station does not have to be strictly close to a beltway at all. Any busy suburban highway will do.

Calling them beltway station is a bit miss leading.

 

[jis]

I don't think anyone calls MET a "beltway station" The station that preceded New Carrolton was called "Capital Beltway" and it was indeed on the beltway. Arguably Rt. 128 outside Boston is on a circumferential highway (Rt. 128) Other than that there are several other stations that are close to major arteries which are not necessarily circumferential to anything. As I said I-287/Rt 440 in NJ is arguably a circumferential highway around the NY Metro area, but MET is a bit of a distance from it along the GSP. Actually Metuchen is closer to I-287, but does not have anything near to a parking lot with enough capacity or a road with easy access for it to be really a "beltway station". Other ones on the West bank of Hudson that come to mind are New Brunswick by Rt 18 and relatively close to NJTpk via Rt. 18, Suffern near I-87/287, Pearl River near Palisades Parkway and I-287. Hamilton close to Rt. 1 as is PJC. Ramsay-Rt. 17 near Rt. 17, Matawan near GSP and Rt 9, 35 and 34. Woodbridge near NJTpk. Long Branch near Rt 36, Mt. Arlington near I-80 and Denville (and Dover) near I-80 and I-287. Of course one would be remiss not to mention Secaucus Jct. Exit 15X (IIRC) off of the New Jersey Turnpike Lincoln Tunnel Extension. NJ has many commuter stations well located close to highways.

 

[Chessie]

I don't think anyone calls MET a "beltway station" The station that preceded New Carrolton was called "Capital Beltway" and it was indeed on the beltway. Arguably Rt. 128 outside Boston is on a circumferential highway (Rt. 128) Other than that there are several other stations that are close to major arteries which are not necessarily circumferential to anything. As I said I-287/Rt 440 in NJ is arguably a circumferential highway around the NY Metro area, but MET is a bit of a distance from it along the GSP. Actually Metuchen is closer to I-287, but does not have anything near to a parking l0ot with enough capacity or a road with easy access for it to be really a "beltway station". Other ones on the west bank of Hudson that come to mind are New Brunswick by Rt 18 and a relatively close to NJTpk via Rt. 18, Suffern near I-87/287, Pearl River near Palisades Parkway and -287. Hamilton close to Rt. 1 as is PJC. Ramsay-Rt. 17 near Rt. 17, Matawan near GSP and Rt 9, 35 and 34. Woodbridge near NJTpk. Long Branch near Rt 36. and Mt. Arlington near I-80 and Denville (and Dover) near I-80 and I-287. NJ has many commuter stations well located close to highways.

Thirdrail7 listed MET as a beltway station in post 30.

I agree Metuchen is woefully lacking in parking. New Brunswick is also lacking in parking.

 

[jis]

Well, I am unable to take responsibility for Thirdail said. I can only share what I know..

BTW New brunswick has a very nice new parking structure near the station, though I have no idea whether it is available for commuter parking, since it happened after I left NJ. Personally I used MET a lot when I was a resident in Essex County (Short Hills), specially on weekdays, since it was almost impossible to find parking at the Short Hills or Millburn stations unless you had a permit, which I did not.

 

[Seaboard92]

Another beltway station is the proposed station in the CARP report for a Charlotte to Charleston via Columbia train. The beltway stop in question is the I485 stop alongside the Lynx. But likely that route won't open soon

 

[Chessie]

Well, I am unable to take responsibility for Thirdail said. I can only share what I know..

BTW New brunswick has a very nice new parking structure near the station, though I have no idea whether it is available for commuter parking, since it happened after I left NJ. Personally I used MET a lot when I was a resident in Essex County (Short Hills), specially on weekdays, since it was almost impossible to find parking at the Short Hills or Millburn stations unless you had a permit, which I did not.

Do you mean the gateway? I am very familiar with that structure because I know someone who lives in the highrise on top of it. It is wickedly convenient when visiting.

I believe the structure has some spots for commuter parking but not enough to make it a reliable option. MET is much better if you have to drive to a station.

 

[Ryan]

Who cares whether MET is on a "beltway" or not? It is close to a very major highway, the Garden State Parkway (Exit 131 and 131A), and just one exit away from US Rt. 1 and two exists away from NJ Turnpike Exit 11 and I-287/Rt 440 (which is actually a beltway of sorts (though I have no idea why that is important), via the GSP..

The pattern is that all of those stations have easy access from major arterial highways.

That's my current interpretation as well.

The way the phrase "beltway station" was brought up in this thread made me think there might be a very specific definition. But the way it was later presented in this thread, apparently a so-called beltway station does not have to be strictly close to a beltway at all. Any busy suburban highway will do.

Calling them beltway station is a bit miss leading.

It doesn't have to be next to a beltway specifically - TR7 was obviously referring to stations outside of the city center that feature easy highway access and plenty of parking, making it a better choice for suburban riders that would find it inconvenient to drive all the way into the city center and deal with limited parking.

Much of the time, the highway in question is a beltway, making the term easier than "suburban station next to a highway with a lot of parking". Simple concept, or at least it should be.