Water Truck Stops on Tracks, Gets Hit By Empire Builder

[Dirk]

From Thursday, February 9th's Williston Herald http://www.willistonherald.com/train-cuts-truck-in-half-near-trenton/image_ef256f92-5290-11e1-83dc-0019bb2963f4.html (Photo) and http://www.willistonherald.com/news/truck-vs-train/article_dfad90e6-527a-11e1-bdc8-001871e3ce6c.html (full story)

I fear this will only become more common as the truck traffic increases in that area due to the oil boom. There are literally hundreds of unsignaled crossings in that part of the state, all sitting smack dab in the middle of oil country.

Edit: The photo caption says Amtrak, but the story itself says BNSF. Can anybody shed light on this incident?

 

[Ispolkom]

I fear this will only become more common as the truck traffic increases in that area due to the oil boom. There are literally hundreds of unsignaled crossings in that part of the state, all sitting smack dab in the middle of oil country.

Edit: The photo caption says Amtrak, but the story itself says BNSF. Can anybody shed light on this incident?

Oh, of course it is becoming more common in the oil patch. There was at least one bad grade crossing accident involving an oil truck near Trenton last year. The train in the background of this picture is clearly a BNSF train, so I'll bet that's what was involved.

EDIT: According to another source, it was #7.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Yet another story about a trucker fouling the tracks. Even though AU tends to bash pedestrians far worse than truckers I feel the truckers are a much bigger problem in the grand scheme of things. Mostly due to all of the damage they can cause to the train and the potential for injuries to the innocent occupants. Maybe we need to start taking some gory pictures of what happens to all these ignorant truckers when they get hit and post those pictures in full color on the crossbuck poles. Apparently we're dealing with folks far too ignorant and/or indifferent to figure this out on their own. Heck, most of the truckers I've seen were too illiterate to read even a simplistic little story like the one linked above. No joke.

 

[TimePeace]

Yet another story about a trucker fouling the tracks. Even though AU tends to bash pedestrians far worse than truckers I feel the truckers are a much bigger problem in the grand scheme of things. Mostly due to all of the damage they can cause to the train and the potential for injuries to the innocent occupants. Maybe we need to start taking some gory pictures of what happens to all these ignorant truckers when they get hit and post those pictures in full color on the crossbuck poles. Apparently we're dealing with folks far too ignorant and/or indifferent to figure this out on their own. Heck, most of the truckers I've seen were too illiterate to read even a simplistic little story like the one linked above. No joke.

>Heck, most of the truckers I've seen were too illiterate to read even a simplistic little story <

Sorry friend, but that is about as ignorant a statement as I have seen on this forum yet. Nothing personal - just a comment on the statement. Unless you have had the misfortune to only meet a tiny minority of truckers. If they were all so ignorant, 99.9% of the stuff you buy would not be available to you. How else does it get to you?

 

[afigg]

I fear this will only become more common as the truck traffic increases in that area due to the oil boom. There are literally hundreds of unsignaled crossings in that part of the state, all sitting smack dab in the middle of oil country.

The state should use some of the oil income revenue towards grade crossing upgrades with signals and crossing gates. Any such upgrade process will lag far behind the increase in truck traffic, but as grade crossing accidents become more frequent, the state highway department and BNSF will have to respond. The state will have to use some of the oil revenue for highway and road repair, as heavy truck traffic will beat the heck out of the roads.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Heck, most of the truckers I've seen were too illiterate to read even a simplistic little story.

Sorry friend, but that is about as ignorant a statement as I have seen on this forum yet. Nothing personal - just a comment on the statement. Unless you have had the misfortune to only meet a tiny minority of truckers. If they were all so ignorant, 99.9% of the stuff you buy would not be available to you. How else does it get to you?

I don't think they're all ignorant, just the ones we need to educate. As for the the truckers I've seen, down here in Texas we have many truckers who can't understand a lick of English. If they can't speak it or hear it then it seems reasonable to assume they probably can't read it either. Goodness knows how they ever managed to get their CDL. Maybe some sort of NAFTA loophole? Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-minority, but can you imagine getting into a car and driving down roads with signs you can't even read? Now imagine doing the same thing in a huge commercial truck that can crush other vehicles and even smash up a train. That's a dangerous level of ignorance in my view and it bothers me to know these clueless truckers are out there on the same roads as the people I care about.

 

[Tumbleweed]

It should be mandatory that each driver goes through this information

 

[Ispolkom]

The state should use some of the oil income revenue towards grade crossing upgrades with signals and crossing gates.

State money to install crossing gates at private road crossings? I don't see that happening. Remember that most of the grade crossing accidents are at private roads, and the traffic patterns change as drilling crews move from site to site.

The state will have to use some of the oil revenue for highway and road repair, as heavy truck traffic will beat the heck out of the roads.

The roads are already decaying, but you've got to remember the the oil revenues first have to go to pay for flood control in the Red River valley. Only after Cass County gets its "share" will the legislature give much thought to the western part of the state.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I agree that SOME Truck Drivers are Idiots and shouldnt be out on the Roads!! Think Chris is refering to the Mexican Truck Drivers in his posts, anyone who has been to Mexico knows how they Drive there, nothing Racial, just a Cultural thing!! An Idiot by any other Name etc.!!! ) As to Drivers of Automobiles and other Motorvehicles, I'd venture that @ least HALF don't have a Clue and shouldnt be Driving! I have lived all over the Wotld and have seen my Share of Bad drivers, and have to say that the Clowns here in Austin take the Prize as the WORST Drivers I've ever seen! :help: The RedLine has had several cars run into it already :wacko: ,(even though there are Double Gates and Lights and Signs and the Engineer Blows his Whistle and Rings the Bell!!!) and it's just a matter of time as to when the Texas Eagle has one of those Wild Train jumps Tracks and hunts down Innocent Car Moments!

 

[TimePeace]

Heck, most of the truckers I've seen were too illiterate to read even a simplistic little story.

Sorry friend, but that is about as ignorant a statement as I have seen on this forum yet. Nothing personal - just a comment on the statement. Unless you have had the misfortune to only meet a tiny minority of truckers. If they were all so ignorant, 99.9% of the stuff you buy would not be available to you. How else does it get to you?

I don't think they're all ignorant, just the ones we need to educate. As for the the truckers I've seen, down here in Texas we have many truckers who can't understand a lick of English. If they can't speak it or hear it then it seems reasonable to assume they probably can't read it either. Goodness knows how they ever managed to get their CDL. Maybe some sort of NAFTA loophole? Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-minority, but can you imagine getting into a car and driving down roads with signs you can't even read? Now imagine doing the same thing in a huge commercial truck that can crush other vehicles and even smash up a train. That's a dangerous level of ignorance in my view and it bothers me to know these clueless truckers are out there on the same roads as the people I care about.

Well of course there aren't a lot of Mexicans driving trucks around the Empire Builder's route - but still, one can't be too careful can one.

Not to mention those pesky Canadians, who knows how many of them might have sneaked down across the border and gone and gotten a license to drive an 18-wheeler. Heck, some of them probably speak some weird native language, God forbid.

Sorry to make fun, I just can't help but notice how the thread about a tragic accident CAUSED by one careless idiot becomes an immigration issue. (He was probably talking on a cell phone made in China - and what's THAT got to do with it?) Plenty of stupid US citizens around to keep committing idiotic acts no matter what state you are in.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Well of course there aren't a lot of Mexicans driving trucks around the Empire Builder's route - but still, one can't be too careful can one. Not to mention those pesky Canadians, who knows how many of them might have sneaked down across the border and gone and gotten a license to drive an 18-wheeler. Heck, some of them probably speak some weird native language, God forbid.

I'm not anti-immigration in the slightest. I'm just pro-safety. What passes for a trucker here in 2012 shocks and amazes me. They can't read the signs, they don't have working radios, they goof off on their phones, they drive improperly maintained hardware, and they're allowed to work until they pass out. That's not a good situation no matter where they come from. I realize there are countries that have even worse regulations and worse drivers than we do. I simply don't see that as a serious reason to hold back on fixing the problem. Maybe for some folks it's more important to improve or protect the trucker image than to actually fix the problem, but not for me.

Sorry to make fun, I just can't help but notice how the thread about a tragic accident CAUSED by one careless idiot becomes an immigration issue. (He was probably talking on a cell phone made in China - and what's THAT got to do with it?) Plenty of stupid US citizens around to keep committing idiotic acts no matter what state you are in.

Pedestrian suicides delay the train while the police file their report and the staff deal with the emotional aftermath. Even automobiles and light trucks mainly cause superficial damage to modern trains. Large commercial vehicles, on the other hand, can create a much more life threatening and budget draining event for everyone on board. This rather obvious distinction is not lost on the laws of physics, but it does seem to be lost on our regulators and legislators.

 

[TimePeace]

I just don't have that much problem with the "trucker image." My image of truckers is basically of very hard working men and women who keep our country supplied with all its goods. A few bad ones don't spoil that for me any more than a train engineer causing deaths while he's texting, or stoned on weed, or both, causes me to lose enormous respect for the vast majority of train engineers. Maybe things are really a whole lot worse in Texas than around here, I dunno.

Yes we do hear of truckers carrying overweight loads now and then, or of driving too many hours per shift. The federal laws require them to keep logbooks of driving time, and violations are severely dealt with to my knowledge. We also hear of airline pilots falling asleep, combat zone soldiers killing civilians, politicians accepting bribes, schoolteachers getting caught with child pornography on their computers, etc etc.

The majority of our working men and women are working hard to make a living for themselves and their families and I have seen NO evidence to show that truckers as a group are not just as solid and law abiding as anyone else.

Maybe it seems like truckers are in the news a lot - but for every one that is in the news, many many thousands are doing their job professionally and well. I believe the industry as a whole has a far better safety record than passsenger car drivers, for example. It is disingenuous to condemn them as a class.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I am getting extremly annoyed that Amtrak trains keep getting delayed by collisions with motor vehicles. When I ride Amtrak, the engineer blows the horn once in less than a minute. How can divers not hear so many blows, not see the headlight, and still not see the imposing Genesis? Pathetic!

 

[Ispolkom]

Well of course there aren't a lot of Mexicans driving trucks around the Empire Builder's route - but still, one can't be too careful can one.

No, the problem is the Canadians. They come down to North Dakota, lured by the cheap cigarettes and booze, and then WATCH OUT. They start going to Mr. Donut, asking for a double-double. Or they demand poutine at Behm's Truck Stop. It's hell, I tell you, hell.

Umm, that's a joke, son. Canadians are fine, upstanding people, even though they seem over-fond of doughnuts and, well, come on. French fries, cheese curds, and *gravy*?

 

[transit54]

It should be mandatory that each driver goes through this information

When I took my CDL test, dealing with RR crossings was an important portion of it. Of course, I think that is specific to licenses that have a passenger endorsement or a hazmat endorsement. The procedure for buses is to put your flashers on, stop at the RR crossing, look both ways and proceed if safe. If you didn't execute this correctly, you wouldn't pass the test. However, I don't think that procedure applies to all trucks - but IMO, it should.

Also, I can imagine this collision was absolutely terrifying for the engineer. How would he have known that just water was in that tank? For all he knew, it was filled with gasoline or something else explosive.

 

[the_traveler]

[Moderator's Note]

Please, please, please keep the comments on topic! Why bring up Mexicans, truckers, ignorant drivers, etc... at all?

How do you know the driver was not an American who graduated from Harvard or Yale with a 4.0 GPA who just got unemployed and took this part time job?

And what's not to say the guy or gal driving next you tomorrow may be just as "ignorant"?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

A few bad ones don't spoil that for me any more than a train engineer causing deaths while he's texting, or stoned on weed, or both, causes me to lose enormous respect for the vast majority of train engineers.

The difference, to my understanding, is that train engineers are no longer allowed to screw with their phones while on duty. On any railroad. Anywhere in the country. Is there a similar nationwide restriction for truckers?

The federal laws require them to keep logbooks of driving time, and violations are severely dealt with to my knowledge.

Grade crossing violations often result in the death penalty, but that doesn't seem to be as much of a deterrent as you'd hope.

We also hear of airline pilots falling asleep, combat zone soldiers killing civilians, politicians accepting bribes, schoolteachers getting caught with child pornography on their computers, etc etc.

I'm so sick and tired of snoozing airline pilots crashing into train stations while soldiers blow up our bridges in order to take out sadistic school teachers preying on the passengers... Wait, what?! I almost let myself get suckered into some screwball logic there for a second.

The majority of our working men and women are working hard to make a living for themselves and their families and I have seen NO evidence to show that truckers as a group are not just as solid and law abiding as anyone else.

I would not disagree. The difference, in my view, is that most citizens are not crossing the tracks with something large and heavy enough to seriously damage the train or harm the occupants.

 

[cbqbill]

To return to the subject: I was aboard the eastbound EB yesterday (2/8) when it met #7(7) between Wolf Point and Williston shortly after its collision with the water truck. At that time it was nearly three hours late and was powered by only one P42 leading the EB's ten car consist. I assume that the lead engine which struck the truck was damaged and removed from the train.

Is one engine able to pull a ten-car train over the GN summit and provide adequate head end power? I noticed that it had made up an hour by the time it got to Spokane this morning. Does anyone know if help was added in Montana?

 

[EB_OBS]

To return to the subject: I was aboard the eastbound EB yesterday (2/8) when it met #7(7) between Wolf Point and Williston shortly after its collision with the water truck. At that time it was nearly three hours late and was powered by only one P42 leading the EB's ten car consist. I assume that the lead engine which struck the truck was damaged and removed from the train.

Is one engine able to pull a ten-car train over the GN summit and provide adequate head end power? I noticed that it had made up an hour by the time it got to Spokane this morning. Does anyone know if help was added in Montana?

There were three locomotives on that train as that is the winter mandate from BNSF for reliability. The Engine 205 was in the lead when it struck the truck. It was removed from the train. This left two, one west facing and one east facing locomotive.

 

[EB_OBS]

Also, I can imagine this collision was absolutely terrifying for the engineer. How would he have known that just water was in that tank? For all he knew, it was filled with gasoline or something else explosive.

There were two Amtrak engineers on the lead engine #205 when it struck the truck. Hundreds of gallons of water came into the inside of the locomotive via the damage done to the front end headlamp area. You're right, they didn't know right away it was water. Also the engineer's side door blew in so hard it took the latch with it and if either one of them had been right behind the engineer's seat it would have severely injured or killed him.

This is the third water truck struck by a train in a week out there. It really seems like the oil companies out there are hiring just any warm body to drive the trucks.

I read the state put a counter on a road in the area where traffic has become backed up daily. They recorded over 20,000 vehicles in a 24 hour period, 60% of which where trucks.

 

[mwmnp]

Something that may, or may not, provide more perspective to this discussion is that various sources I have read mention that from the time drilling of a new well in the oil patch of North Dakota and Montana begins until the well starts producing, around 1,000 truck trips will have been made to and from the site, leading to a grand total of around 2,000 trips. Roughly speaking, at present, about 200 wells are being drilled any given day. With each well taking about a month or two to complete, mathematical calculations dictate that activity in the oil fields is adding thousands of semis to the roads in the area each day. Quite frankly, what might be more surprising isn't that these train-truck accidents near busy railroad tracks are occurring, but that there haven't been more of them, especially considering that for a lot of people who come to the area with dollar signs in their eyes but no experience in the oil industry, driving a semi is often one of the easiest jobs to obtain. No prior experience is necessarily required, beyond of course having the proper driver's license, which in any event usually isn't seen as anything difficult to get. Combined with a mad rush right now to get oil wells drilled, resulting in workdays far beyond the typical eight hour day, as well as a fairly high turnover rate, the result is a lot of fatigued, inexperienced, and ultimately dangerous, semi drivers on the roads in the area.

As for the fact the truck was carrying water, the hydraulic fracturing ("fracking") process used in the region to get the oil out of the ground requires around 1,000,000 gallons of water to be brought to each well and a smaller amount to be taken away as waste. Because of this, water is the most common product hauled by semis in the region and, not so surprisingly, was what both of the trucks struck by trains on BNSF tracks near Williston this week were carrying.

 

[me_little_me]

The majority of our working men and women are working hard to make a living for themselves and their families and I have seen NO evidence to show that truckers as a group are not just as solid and law abiding as anyone else.

I would not disagree. The difference, in my view, is that most citizens are not crossing the tracks with something large and heavy enough to seriously damage the train or harm the occupants.

It is more than that. In almost all cases of long distance truckers, they are paid by the mile. The biggest restrictions on them is that they must have a certain amount of TIME to rest. Therefore, there is an incentive for them to speed, go around crossing gates, cross rails that might cause them a problem, etc. Delays caused by doing that cost them money.

Engineers are not paid by the mile. Their issues are often boredom resulting in inattention to signals, texting, etc. or speeding when late so as to reach their destination and go off duty.

Pilots are also not paid by the mile. Their problems often result from inability to deal properly with the unexpected.

For pilots, co-pilots, constant simulator training, specific written checklists for everything they do and automated controls as well as FAA tracking are meant to minimize their biggest problem.

For engineers, automatic controls and dead man switches as well as strict rules about doing such things as texting are designed to minimize their big issues.

For truckers, there is little. They can legally have radar detectors to avoid getting caught speeding, crossings have no photo-capture, ports-of-entry may be closed or driven around on side roads, police presence is spotty, companies are mostly small businesses or drivers are independents, ongoing training is nothing compared to airlines and railroads, companies often have no enforced rules or electronic detection of bad driving practices, and there is really no control over stopping their biggest incentive - driving more miles means more money to them so delays of any sort are to be avoided if possible. The system itself does not do a good job of separating the mostly excellent drivers from the problem ones.

 

[Old MM]

:angry2: Ok, we are taking the EB next week and I am really not thrilled reading all this nor do I care about being politically correct if some idiots are jeapordizing the safety of a previously safe mode of transportation. I would not care at all, if the idiots only jeapordized their OWN safety.

 

[Old MM]

And by the way I didn't know we were fracking in this country.

Hello, more earthquakes!

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

:angry2: Ok, we are taking the EB next week and I am really not thrilled reading all this nor do I care about being politically correct if some idiots are jeapordizing the safety of a previously safe mode of transportation. I would not care at all, if the idiots only jeapordized their OWN safety.

Don't fret, the locomotive withstood damage by the water truck. If it had been a gasoline truck though, the locomotive might have blown up.

Amtrak is still much safer than driving or Greyhound.