The Perception of Amtrak

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I almost agree with FoamerOBS here. The article is extremely ambiguous. The author doesn't really pinpoint anything. The photos are so abstract, they could be from anywhere. That all being said, my experience doesn't fall far from the author's point of view.

Kind of like the movie Platoon, I don't know that I've experienced all these 'tragedies' at the same time, but certianly, I don't find any of them to be lies or distortions. Just simply ambiguous.

First, many people do ride the trains. We here all know that. However, I don't think that bathrooms become unusable between, say, Miami and Fort Lauderdale. If that's the case, there is a problem with the crew. But I have seen the Silver Meteor delayed because they had to call a septic truck to empty the train in Savannah because the toilets were at max capacity and the water supply was out. So, no, not almost immediately, but when the time that passes exceeds the single digits, the bathrooms start to take a life of their own. Happens on Greyhound, too. They solve that problem by simply posting a sign on the door that says "out of order". Problem solved. At least on Amtrak, the average train gives you about three choices minimum for coach passengers.

The part I didn't agree with was that Amtrak sways more on the same tracks that commuter trains don't sway on. However, I can't put it past the author as having experienced perhaps some worn suspension vs brand new or at least newer equipment of the transit agency.

Author didn't mention what time of year he was travelling. Presumably this past Summer. Amtrak temperatures can vary wildly. To this, I think Amtrak should be kept cold and allow passengers to bundle up. First, it helps keep the humidity down. Second, it's always easier to bundle up than to strip off clothes. Last thing anyone wants to see is me .... never mind. You get the point. For $8, you can buy a comfort kit.

We all know about funding and that station infrastructure - so long as it is safe, and even not always then - is the last thing to get prettied up. My home station in Savannah has a very derilict platform canopy. As does Orlando. As does Jacksonville, as do almost all stations that I'm aware of outside the NEC.

And finally the cost. The author isn't wrong here at all. I keep trying to plan a train trip with my family. I am sure they would love it. But when I price it out compared to driving, I can drive quite a ways, switch off with my wife, drive further, stay in a REALLY nice hotel, drive more, eat like kings, and keep the price under what a trip with my family would cost on Amtrak. So, that is pretty why most of my train riding over the past 15 years has been solo. First, my family could care less, and second, I can't justify the cost for something they have lackluster interest in.
 
My comments were made based on dozens of Lincoln service trips over the past decade. Plus many other rides on amtrak trains.

I don't think this should be a battle of the sexes. My comments were intended to be helpful. I suspect the bathrooms on the bilevels will be vastly superior. The ones on the Acela are too. Superliners are fine too.

There are problems with amfleets and horizons IMHO. First of all the toilets don't always handle the job on amfleets . During the trip more stuff backs up because the toilet didn't the handle the first job. This would lend itself to hovering. I don't blame them either. On superliners those in the know put toilet paper in first to facilitate the process. This can't be done on amfleets because those toilets are designed differently.

I know when these cars were built this was state of the art. They just don't work so well now.
 
I do agree that the toilet system was poorly designed, probably by somebody who hasn't worked for Amtrak in years. In my experience, enroute unscheduled toilet service stops are not due to a lack of water in the car, and not due to the retention tanks being full. Both of those situations, on the extremely rare occasions when they have come up, would be the fault of maintenance staff at principal terminals. But as I said, these are extremely rare. The much more common reason for enroute servicing of toilets is the presence of things that shouldn't have been put there in the first place. These include items of clothing (underwear, for example), and who knows what else.

I wish the toilets had been designed better, and I hope future cars will have a better system. But it's not the crew who's putting these things in the toilet.
 
I think it's a pretty good example of the perception of Amtrak has with a non rail fan. At the end of the day the average rider cares about the following: Did I get to go where I wanted to go on time. Did the experience meet my expectations. Was I treated with courtesy and respect. Was I comfortable during the ride. Was the price competitive to other forms of transportation I could have used to get where I want to go. And was the time of the trip took reasonable compared to driving. Riders don't care who owns the tracks, what company is causing the delay, or why the toilet backed up or why the toilets are disgusting.

In a lot of cases it's not Amtrak's fault that they're late. Or that older equipment breaks and freezes. Or that a harried mom or dad flushes a pair of soiled Underoos that clogs up the toilet. But it's Amtrak's name on the side of the train, on the staffs' uniforms and on the tickets. So even if it isn't Amtrak's fault, it's still on them.

There are a couple of things Amtrak can control: Customer Service and Cleanliness of their train interiors. No train needs to go out looking like the bare minimum was done to clean it when it arrived 2 or 3 hours earlier. It really isn't hard to pick up the garbage people leave behind, run a sweeper down the aisle, check the seat pockets, if the seats are turn-able make sure they're facing the right way for the return trip, spritz some air freshener on the carpet, collect the old seat checks and yes: Clean the bathrooms.

As for customer service, we've written a book on the good and the bad here at AU in the years I've been a member, yet somehow Amtrak can't seem to fix this to save their life.

And that's disappointing: because a clean car and a pleasant interaction can go a long way to building up an excellent reputation for a company... Even if the equipment shakes, rattles and rolls down the rails and gets you there late. It may just be the difference between deciding to pop the extra cash to take the train or drive the next time travel by train is a possibility.
 
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While I agree Amtrak can control cleanliness to a certain degree, sadly, it's partly the passengers' fault (or at least, some passengers' faults) if the toilets get trashed.

I've seen this in other places: college dorms, stores, restaurants, airports.....either people care about the fact that other people have to use the space or they don't. Sadly, it seems to me (at least it's my perception) that fewer and fewer people care these days. (Or perhaps places are cheaping out on frequent cleanings).

I've seen bathrooms in some stores that I wouldn't use. I've never seen one I wouldn't use in a restaurant, but then, if a restaurant had a truly filthy restroom, I wouldn't eat there.....

But yeah, I can see the inconsistency of how crews act being a major turn off to someone who doesn't take the train a lot. And I could definitely see filthy restrooms as a turn off; one of the reasons I prefer to travel sleeper is that fewer people + more bathrooms = less chance of them being out or service or disgusting.
 
Disney instilled the work ethic early on in his theme parks. They generally place trash cans within 50 paces from anywhere - because they did a study and noticed that a majority of people who litter were more likely to throw away stuff properly if they could do so within 50 steps. He also noted that once decay starts, its rate of progression grows exponentially. In a bathroom with no grafitti? Folks are less likely to mess it up. If you allow one scribble, it doesn't take long for folks to add to the trashy look. Even popcorn on the grounds at Disney are picked up so quickly by the custodians that a lot of the time birds and critters don't have time to get to them.

Problems are easier to clean up when they are small. But if ignored, they will blow up.
 
VentureForth said:
And finally the cost. The author isn't wrong here at all. I keep trying to plan a train trip with my family. I am sure they would love it. But when I price it out compared to driving, I can drive quite a ways, switch off with my wife, drive further, stay in a REALLY nice hotel, drive more, eat like kings, and keep the price under what a trip with my family would cost on Amtrak. So, that is pretty why most of my train riding over the past 15 years has been solo. First, my family could care less, and second, I can't justify the cost for something they have lackluster interest in.
Click to expand...
The economics of driving are much better with 4 people in the car than with 1, and tend to break even with the train with 2 people...
But it's a little bit different if you're travelling toll-road routes.

Hmm. I wonder if this is one more reason for the continued strong performance of the Lake Shore Limited. The parallel expressways are, in order, coming out of Chicago:

- Chicago Skyway

- Indiana Toll Road

- Ohio Turnpike

- (short free section)

- NY State Thruway

(going to Boston):

- short free section

- Massachusetts Turnpike

(going to NYC):

- more NY State Thruway

- your choice of toll bridges or toll tunnels into Manhattan

Now, none of these toll roads have exorbitant tolls, but it *does* add up. If you're heading north or west of Chicago, you'll run through more tollway before leaving Illinois as well.

I mean, you can always drive the US routes (which I prefer anyway), but then the LSL is *faster* than driving.

If this is one of the reasons, it might be worth studying other routes where the main road competition is tollways. Based on this, the proposed MBTA extension to New Hampshire would probably be mobbed; a better Pennsy/Capitol Limited connection would probably be quite successful; Phildelphia-Allentown-Scranton is obviously desirable -- and, um, Wichita to Oklahoma City has tolls, too.
 
FormerOBS said:
Sorry, but I can't accept this article at face value, and I'm a bit surprised to see that so many AU members agree with it. The writer has no published name; we don't know what train(s) he or she rode; we don't know what cities were visited; we don't know what "detours" were made, or why; we don't know what type of equipment was used; we don't know the specific staffing issues of the specific train(s), etc., etc., etc. I think this is a poorly researched and poorly constructed piece of yellow journalism. It's true that Amtrak has a lot of problems, but this article is too vague when it comes to any specific problems.

I agree that this article does reflect the perceptions held by a lot of people, many of whom have never used Amtrak. I agree that there could be some truth to these allegations. But without more specificity, this thing is nothing but a generalized rant without any real value to anybody who would want to address and solve Amtrak's problems.

Tom
Click to expand...
Would you accept my citing of specific problems Tom? I can show you How many trips I have made on Amtrak in just the past ten years. We most likely have at least seen one another on one of our auto train trips. :)

The CL used to be my "home train" and I always had 3 major complaints. Leaving at 5 am; arriving at around midnight, and no connection to the star allowed even though we generally arrived in was before 1;30-2pm. for the past 8 years it has been the star.

I love the star, love the crew and usually always enjoy those trips. But on my last trip, if I didn't love trains, and will tolerate a lot that others won't, I could have written a very similar rant.

right when we boarded I was shocked at how shabby our room was, not just outdated,not shabby chic. It was just worn, faded, grungy! First time ever, I've asked the SCA if they had to put this one back in service after a long retirement.

The steak for dinner was passable, (I never think anything else is unless it is from the culinary menu)but they ruined it by putting A1 sauce on it. Breakfast was a disaster for me with petrified sausage served that was an insult because there was no way it should have hit the table. At least I didn't have to test the coach restrooms. The tracks are always rough. I know this was not the norm on the star, but I also know that my hubby would never ever take the train again, he does it to please me.

And if your first experience of of a middle or long distance train ride is similar to mine on the star, its much more likely you'll focus on the negatives, and it can lead to a righteous rant..
 
Those specific citations of problems are exactly what the article lacked. You should have a room that is clean and presentable. As for the steak sauce, I have always personally believed A1 sauce is a good way to ruin a good steak, and I would send back any steak that was served to me with that stuff on it. Passengers who wanted steak sauce in my diner could have it if they wished; but they never had it forced on them in my experience. We have had steaks that were advertised in the menu as being served with sauce, but we honored the passenger's request whenever anyone told us to hold the sauce.

These complaints about the food and the track conditions (or train handling) and the inconvenient scheduling needed to be sent to the Company. I hope you did that because that is the only way Corporate will get the message. The Corporation pays little attention to what OBS personnel say about the customers' reactions to these types of issues. Maybe they think OBS personnel make things up for some personal reasons. But Corporate is more likely to address these issues when they come straight from the customer.

I characterized the article as a rant because it did not include the kinds of specific issues you mention. Instead, it just said Amtrak is terrible. That doesn't give anybody any information that they can act upon. There is nothing in the article that is constructive, and it seems that the author was more interested in discrediting Amtrak than improving the rail experience. Amtrak does a lot of things that are off-putting to first-timers, and Corporate needs to be made aware of the problems. The article was too vague to do that.

I'm sure I saw you on the train. Chances are you're a person whose face I would recognize. It would be nice to see you again. I always enjoyed our passengers (MOST of them, anyway :) ), and always felt a bit of a letdown if things weren't right for them.

Tom
 
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Send food back at your own risk in the diner. Chances are if a crew was pathetic enough to serve steak with A1 sauce then they are pathetic enough to be rude the rest of the trip.
 
neroden said:
VentureForth said:
And finally the cost. The author isn't wrong here at all. I keep trying to plan a train trip with my family. I am sure they would love it. But when I price it out compared to driving, I can drive quite a ways, switch off with my wife, drive further, stay in a REALLY nice hotel, drive more, eat like kings, and keep the price under what a trip with my family would cost on Amtrak. So, that is pretty why most of my train riding over the past 15 years has been solo. First, my family could care less, and second, I can't justify the cost for something they have lackluster interest in.
Click to expand...
The economics of driving are much better with 4 people in the car than with 1, and tend to break even with the train with 2 people...
But it's a little bit different if you're travelling toll-road routes.

Hmm. I wonder if this is one more reason for the continued strong performance of the Lake Shore Limited. The parallel expressways are, in order, coming out of Chicago:

- Chicago Skyway

- Indiana Toll Road

- Ohio Turnpike

- (short free section)

- NY State Thruway

(going to Boston):

- short free section

- Massachusetts Turnpike

(going to NYC):

- more NY State Thruway

- your choice of toll bridges or toll tunnels into Manhattan

Now, none of these toll roads have exorbitant tolls, but it *does* add up. If you're heading north or west of Chicago, you'll run through more tollway before leaving Illinois as well.

I mean, you can always drive the US routes (which I prefer anyway), but then the LSL is *faster* than driving.

If this is one of the reasons, it might be worth studying other routes where the main road competition is tollways. Based on this, the proposed MBTA extension to New Hampshire would probably be mobbed; a better Pennsy/Capitol Limited connection would probably be quite successful; Phildelphia-Allentown-Scranton is obviously desirable -- and, um, Wichita to Oklahoma City has tolls, too.
Click to expand...
Well, Wichita to the Oklahoma State border. But I digress. Honestly, even taking the train takes a greater commitment (financial, time & planning) than hopping in the car with two people - at least where I'm coming from.
 
TV and movies don't help the perception. If anyone saw Big Bang last night, Sheldon was robbed in a sleeper car. While they did not mention Amtrak by name, it was obviosly intended that he was riding Amtrak. People beleieve this stuff. I couldn't laugh the whole episode because I was so mad at this.
 
It costs us, what, a couple of million dollars to blow up some goatherd in the middle-east? Yet we can't find the money to properly fund Amtrak? Or schools...or libraries...or...
 
gwschenk said:
It costs us, what, a couple of million dollars to blow up some goatherd in the middle-east? Yet we can't find the money to properly fund Amtrak? Or schools...or libraries...or...
Click to expand...
Couple of Billion is more like it and looks like were fixing to "Go to War AGAIN!" in the Hell Hole known as the Middle East!!! When will we ever learn??
Trillions for Weapons and " Homeland Security" ( why does this remind one of 1930s Germany?) , nothing for the Poor and Social Programs! Sounds like a good Campaign Slogan, er wait, the Republicans already have it covered!
 
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I've heard horror stories about sending food back, too. But in all my years of working at Amtrak, I never saw any of those stories actually played out. Typically, I would take the steak to the chef and the conversation would go one of two ways:

1. Me: "The customer said this steak isn't medium."

Chef: (examines steak) "Yep. It's well done. I messed up on that one. I'll get you another one that's right. Tell him it'll take a few minutes. I'll send it up."

or

2. Me: "The customer said this steak isn't medium."

Chef: (examines steak) "It sure is medium."

Me: "Well, the customer says it's too done."

Chef: "Then I guess he really wants medium rare."

Me: "Probably."

Chef: (sighs) "OK. Tell him it'll take a few minutes. I'll send it right up."

The chefs I worked with were very good, and proud of it. It was a rare occasion when a steak was sent back for not being right. When mistakes happened, they behaved as adults and corrected the mistake. I was always proud to be part of that kind of team.

YMMV.

Tom
 
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That's what a good OBS would do Tom, unfortunately lots of today's easy riders and attitude types don't have customer relation skills and don't work like your crews on the AT!!!
 
I've read through this thread and the state of AMTRAK is reminding me of the state of a lot of things American these days. A Holdover from the good old days and just hanging on by a thread. Things certainly sound like they could be improved, but, I don't agree that driving is always better. I purposely booked a trip the end of next month on AMTRAK because I didn't want to drive from Virginia to upstate NY. I'll post a report after the trip with my impressions. I'm new to train travel and actually looking forward to this trip despite what I've read above and in the original posted article. Booking was easy, much easier than booking air travel. I'm generally pretty tolerant of most things and will complain if something is horribly wrong, but, won't gripe just for the sake. I"m keeping an open mind.
 
Never, ever had to send back a steak on the auto train,unfortunately there are now no more steaks to worry about or enjoy. :(

On the star,I did ask why it had A1 on it instead of the signature sauce and was told that is now the signature sauce. Told LSA very politely that I was offended that they would even attempt to serve that sausage.

Did call customer relations, voiced my concerns, but also complemeted by name those staff I felt tried their best to give excellent customer service. They listened, gave appropriate soothing responses and said they were writing a ticket on it. That's it.
 
What Ketchup is to fried potatoes and bad fish, A-1 Sauce is to steak! I used to enjoy the steaks with the special Am-Sauce but Pot Roast (aka Braised Beef)served with A-1 Sauce is bait and switch pure and simple! Shame on Amtrak for ruinig a good thing!

Old saying: "If it ain',t broke, don't fix it!"
 
neroden said:
Oh, those "push on a a plunger" sinks are the worst, though the "hold a lever" sinks are almost as bad.

Electric-eye-sensor sinks have become the new standard for public washrooms. Amtrak should do that.
Click to expand...
Nathaniel, they recently invented something called a knob that is vastly superior to the electronic ADHD eye.
 
At home I have levers (handicapped-accessible!)

But knobs & levers in public bathrooms get.... abused. :-( They aren't liked because they don't shut off automatically, and there's always SOMEONE who doesn't turn the faucet off.

In terms of things which turn themselves off, the mechanical "press down" or "press up" things are just horrible to use (shut off too *easily*), and the other mechanical designs I've seen tend to be too delicate for the tender ministrations of the abusive public.
 
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