Sleepers at end of train?

[D.P. Roberts]

I just returned from a trip aboard the Empire Builder yesterday. Taking photos out of the rear of the Portland Sleeper was a unique experience. There is something to be said about having a sleeper that is at the end of the train, away from the engines.

Did you ever have any cars behind the Portland sleeper? I'm just curious as to the current trends of having coach cars, private cars, etc. at the end of the EB.

 

[MrFSS]

I just returned from a trip aboard the Empire Builder yesterday. Taking photos out of the rear of the Portland Sleeper was a unique experience. There is something to be said about having a sleeper that is at the end of the train, away from the engines.

Did you ever have any cars behind the Portland sleeper? I'm just curious as to the current trends of having coach cars, private cars, etc. at the end of the EB.

Sometimes they may have an extra coach on the end from Chicago to St Paul. Don't know if that still happens. Also, there could be private cars there, too.

 

[WICT106]

Did you ever have any cars behind the Portland sleeper? I'm just curious as to the current trends of having coach cars, private cars, etc. at the end of the EB.

Not this time around.

 

[AlanB]

I just returned from a trip aboard the Empire Builder yesterday. Taking photos out of the rear of the Portland Sleeper was a unique experience. There is something to be said about having a sleeper that is at the end of the train, away from the engines.

Did you ever have any cars behind the Portland sleeper? I'm just curious as to the current trends of having coach cars, private cars, etc. at the end of the EB.

Sometimes they may have an extra coach on the end from Chicago to St Paul. Don't know if that still happens.

That's generaly done only in the peak summer months.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

That's generaly done only in the peak summer months.

I'm expecting a Chicago - St. Paul coach, but that's no big deal. I know in the past they've had mail cars, fruit cargo, etc. on the back, but from what I've read Amtrak is out of those contracts now, at least for carrying those cars on the EB. There's been talk lately of Grand Luxe (a.k.a. American Orient Express) adding on to existing Amtrak trains, but I guess that's still in the planning stages. I know there aren't too many private varnish cars out there, but as we head into the summer I thought perhaps more of those might be on the EB.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

I just returned from a trip aboard the Empire Builder yesterday. Taking photos out of the rear of the Portland Sleeper was a unique experience. There is something to be said about having a sleeper that is at the end of the train, away from the engines.

I was also on the Portland section of the Builder recently, and loved being on the tail end sleeper. Great for photography (travelogue and pics soon). Same trip included the Coast Starlight from L.A. to Klamath Falls, OR (bus transfer to Pasco, WA to meet the Builder), with the sleepers up front. I don't mind either way, though on the Starlight had to walk the train to get good shots of stuff like horseshoe curve north of San Luis Obispo, CA, from the last coach car.

Finally, and to be picky, diesel locomotives don't have whistles. Horns.

Patrick

 

[steve relei]

I just returned from a trip aboard the Empire Builder yesterday. Taking photos out of the rear of the Portland Sleeper was a unique experience. There is something to be said about having a sleeper that is at the end of the train, away from the engines.

I was also on the Portland section of the Builder recently, and loved being on the tail end sleeper. Great for photography (travelogue and pics soon). Same trip included the Coast Starlight from L.A. to Klamath Falls, OR (bus transfer to Pasco, WA to meet the Builder), with the sleepers up front. I don't mind either way, though on the Starlight had to walk the train to get good shots of stuff like horseshoe curve north of San Luis Obispo, CA, from the last coach car.

Finally, and to be picky, diesel locomotives don't have whistles. Horns.

Patrick

We're supposed to be railfans; we're supposed to like train horns (whistles). I, for one, do not mind hearing them even in the middle of the night. The necessities of trains blowing their horns are discussions in themselves.

 

[TRSTACIE]

That's generaly done only in the peak summer months.

I'm expecting a Chicago - St. Paul coach, but that's no big deal. I know in the past they've had mail cars, fruit cargo, etc. on the back, but from what I've read Amtrak is out of those contracts now, at least for carrying those cars on the EB. There's been talk lately of Grand Luxe (a.k.a. American Orient Express) adding on to existing Amtrak trains, but I guess that's still in the planning stages. I know there aren't too many private varnish cars out there, but as we head into the summer I thought perhaps more of those might be on the EB.

I just recieved a GrandLuxwschedule for 2007-08. And it looks like the survey I did earlier had some pull. They are going ahead and marketing GrandLuxe Trains from Chi-SFO, Chi-L.A., and Washington D.C.- Miami. The trains will be pulled behind Amtrak CZ, SWC, and the Silver Meteor. They are being marketed as The GrandLuxe Limited. Though the prices are very steep as usual, these are true first class accomodations. They will run with a 7 car consist to include its own dining and sleeper cars. And it will carry less than 50 passengers. They will also have special trains from Denver-SFO. They have new sleepers and by the look of the pictures they spared no expense. I wonder if this is a test trial of more things to come regarding better service for more money along AMTRAK and also a partnership between the two. The only thing I see wrong is that the prices need to come down a bit to encourage more people to travel by train and so that not only the super rich can ride theses trains. My two cents.

 

[George Harris]

The GrandLuxe Limited. Though the prices are very steep as usual, these are true first class accomodations. They will run with a 7 car consist to include its own dining and sleeper cars. And it will carry less than 50 passengers. . . . .

The only thing I see wrong is that the prices need to come down a bit to encourage more people to travel by train and so that not only the super rich can ride theses trains. My two cents.

"Only the super rich can ride these trains"

That...is...their...point.

The high price is also the only way they can come out ahead financially with only 7 passengers per car.

Their chosen clientelle wants at all costs (literally) to avoid having to associate with the great unwashed masses.

 

[MrFSS]

I just received a GrandLuxwschedule for 2007-08. And it looks like the survey I did earlier had some pull. They are going ahead and marketing GrandLuxe Trains from Chi-SFO, Chi-L.A., and Washington D.C.- Miami. The trains will be pulled behind Amtrak CZ, SWC, and the Silver Meteor. They are being marketed as The GrandLuxe Limited. Though the prices are very steep as usual, these are true first class accommodations. They will run with a 7 car consist to include its own dining and sleeper cars. And it will carry less than 50 passengers. They will also have special trains from Denver-SFO. They have new sleepers and by the look of the pictures they spared no expense. I wonder if this is a test trial of more things to come regarding better service for more money along AMTRAK and also a partnership between the two. The only thing I see wrong is that the prices need to come down a bit to encourage more people to travel by train and so that not only the super rich can ride theses trains. My two cents.

I guess the folks in these cars will be told about the possibility of being late. If you pay that kind of money it means more time on the train, I guess. If a meal time that wasn't scheduled comes up because of lateness I bet they won't get KFC!!!

 

[MrFSS]

HERE is a link to Grand Luxe page about all the proposed trips where they will hook on an Amtrak train. Check out the prices!

 

[Dakguy201]

I don't think the folks who are likely to use this service care very much about on-time performance. For them, I suspect the correct comparison is to a cruise ship. Their purpose is the experience of the trip, and arriving at some exact time at the destination is secondary.

 

[had8ley]

HERE is a link to Grand Luxe page about all the proposed trips where they will hook on an Amtrak train. Check out the prices!

Not to sound repititious but even the 800 number to make reservations is a different # than Amtrak's. I just don't see Amtrak taking on the liability of some high dollar passengers with their current performance (or lack thereof) ratings. But who knows, stranger things have happened.

 

[AlanB]

HERE is a link to Grand Luxe page about all the proposed trips where they will hook on an Amtrak train. Check out the prices!

Not to sound repititious but even the 800 number to make reservations is a different # than Amtrak's. I just don't see Amtrak taking on the liability of some high dollar passengers with their current performance (or lack thereof) ratings. But who knows, stranger things have happened.

This is not an Amtrak operation, beyond the fact that Amtrak is pulling the GrandLuxe cars. GrandLuxe is totally responsible for what goes on in their cars, other than the Amtrak conductor's overall authority over the train. Anyone traveling in one of those cars is paying GrandLuxe for their passage. GrandLuxe in turn is contracting with Amtrak to haul their cars on the rear of the Amtrak trains.

I'm guessing that GrandLuxe just isn't doing as well as they'd like running seperate trains, perhaps both financially and in terms of getting permission to actually run seperate trains from the freight RR's. So it would appear that GrandLuxe is now contracting Amtrak to haul their cars on the bottom of regularly scheduled Amtrak trains, instead of contracting Amtrak to supply engines and operating crews to run seperate trains, which is what they currently do. This would be cheaper for GrandLuxe, since they don't need extras crews to operate and it gets around any reluctance from the freight Co's to allow operation of GrandLuxe trains.

And of course any passenger traveling in a GrandLuxe car can only complain to GrandLuxe about being late. But I suspect that most people living in the lap of luxury are probably not going to care too much about being late and I'm pretty sure that GrandLuxe will make it quite clear that the odds do favor a late arrival.

 

[Rafi]

This is not an Amtrak operation, beyond the fact that Amtrak is pulling the GrandLuxe cars. GrandLuxe is totally responsible for what goes on in their cars, other than the Amtrak conductor's overall authority over the train. Anyone traveling in one of those cars is paying GrandLuxe for their passage. GrandLuxe in turn is contracting with Amtrak to haul their cars on the rear of the Amtrak trains.
I'm guessing that GrandLuxe just isn't doing as well as they'd like running seperate trains, perhaps both financially and in terms of getting permission to actually run seperate trains from the freight RR's. So it would appear that GrandLuxe is now contracting Amtrak to haul their cars on the bottom of regularly scheduled Amtrak trains, instead of contracting Amtrak to supply engines and operating crews to run seperate trains, which is what they currently do. This would be cheaper for GrandLuxe, since they don't need extras crews to operate and it gets around any reluctance from the freight Co's to allow operation of GrandLuxe trains.

And of course any passenger traveling in a GrandLuxe car can only complain to GrandLuxe about being late. But I suspect that most people living in the lap of luxury are probably not going to care too much about being late and I'm pretty sure that GrandLuxe will make it quite clear that the odds do favor a late arrival.

I've got some gears spinning on this story to run either in print or as a news blog within the next week. I've discovered this thus far, however, which is of interest:

-This is a joint venture between Amtrak and GrandLuxe; there will be targetted, heavy cross-marketing on both sides of the fence to attract legacy customers from both services.

-GrandLuxe and Amtrak have a special arrangement completely separate from a standard private car agreement and apparently have a budget for the project which is targetted at generating revenue for both parties.

-This is a test project. If successful, both Amtrak and GrandLuxe will look at running the cars regularly either seasonally or year-round. Best case scenario would see new cars added to the fleet over time.

-GrandLuxe has already announced the project informally in the form of a postcard to its past customers.

-A joint press release will be issued within a matter of days.

My impression is that this is another example of Fremaux's team trying to be very creative and resourceful. More info coming within the next week (certainly following the press release), so stay tuned.

-Rafi

 

[Larry H.]

Well someone must not have all the information then, either it is a joint venture or its stricky just stuck on the end of an amtrak train... My bet is amtrak is involved..Allen..

If you recall the survey was about various kinds of service available to the customer.. A deluxe plan with room or a standard sleeper and premade meals in the regular diner, not the fancy one. If it were only Trans Lux then they wouldn't have been promoting the less expensive option which is surely the amtrak protion of the equipment. It seemed they were interested in gaugeing if two level service was of interest on amtrak trains. I think this is a test of that very ideal. Lets see what the announcement says?

 

[AlanB]

-This is a joint venture between Amtrak and GrandLuxe; there will be targetted, heavy cross-marketing on both sides of the fence to attract legacy customers from both services.

I stand corrected.

I'm a bit surprised, but I guess that anything is possible. :unsure:

 

[Rafi]

-This is a joint venture between Amtrak and GrandLuxe; there will be targetted, heavy cross-marketing on both sides of the fence to attract legacy customers from both services.

I stand corrected.

I'm a bit surprised, but I guess that anything is possible. :unsure:

My ears perked up too when I heard that, and I should mention that all of that information I listed came straight from NARP this afternoon, who was commenting on the record. I'll be sure to post more info as quickly as I can (things are just hectic this week; I wanted to have all of the concerned parties interviewed by today, but it's just one of those weeks).

-Rafi

 

[had8ley]

Finally, and to be picky, diesel locomotives don't have whistles. Horns.
Patrick

Not to be doubly picky but just ask any working engineer what he blows and I doubt you ever hear "horn." Probably stems from the steam engine era.

 

[had8ley]

-This is a joint venture between Amtrak and GrandLuxe; there will be targetted, heavy cross-marketing on both sides of the fence to attract legacy customers from both services.

I stand corrected.

I'm a bit surprised, but I guess that anything is possible. :unsure:

I'm tucking my tail between my legs. I would have never thought that Amtrak would take such a move. This can only help the bottom line in revenue and passenger loads. Here's hoping it works. I think we all remember the material handling cars that they spent millions on.

 

[George Harris]

Not to be doubly picky but just ask any working engineer what he blows and I doubt you ever hear "horn." Probably stems from the steam engine era.

Yes, and how many of us that are in the plus 50 crowd grew up hearing the refrigerator called either "the icebox" or "the Frigidare". Also confession time, I got asked a bunch of times by my kids, "why do you shake the milk jug when you pull it out of the refrigerator?" Answer: because I got started doing it before homogenized milk became common.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

Hmmmm......... could this be tied in to our little "reforms" talks of the past. These reforms have not gone away! They are being revaulated I am sure. I may be way off the track in a siding here (heh like I am most of the times on the railroad these days at CSX), but I see as already posted a test project! Grande Luxe would make a great candidate for todays' version of the Pullman corporation. Amtrak can in a sense eventually wean itself from the costs of providing sleeper and dining service on its trains, and have Grande Luxe be the provider of those services! Sounds "back to basics" to me! It is a true fact this would mean loss of many of todays' OBS jobs to the private operator. though. But I can possibly see a new era of Amtrak provding coach service, and the Grand Luxe or another private operator providing the first class component of all long distance trains! It sure would beat not having any first class service at all! Any thoughts to this? OBS...

 

[Rafi]

Quick question, guys...

Anyone know when the last time luxury sleepers of AOE/GrandLuxe quality ran on a regularly scheduled route with intermediate stops and connections? Any sources you could point me to?

Thanks a bunch,

Rafi

 

[D.P. Roberts]

e eventually wean itself from the costs of providing sleeper and dining service on its trains, and have Grande Luxe be the provider of those services! Sounds "back to basics" to me! It is a true fact this would mean loss of many of todays' OBS jobs to the private operator. though. But I can possibly see a new era of Amtrak provding coach service, and the Grand Luxe or another private operator providing the first class component of all long distance trains! It sure would beat not having any first class service at all! Any thoughts to this? OBS...

I don't know, Grand Luxe is probably too small an operation to make a dent in Amtrak's overall sleeper service. Unless they buy & completely refurbish Amtrak cars, their supply of old Pullmans to refurbish is too small. Of course, if they bought old Amtrak equipment, really fixed them up, and managed to hold the costs down, I think it would be a great idea.

 

[Steve4031]

I checked out thosee prices, and at 1599 from chicago to Emeryville is steep. 800 from Denver to Emeryville would almost be worth it to ride better equipment with better food over the most scenic portion of the line. I may try it someday.