Sightseer Lounge etiquette

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J

JoeRids

Service Attendant
Joined
Sep 1, 2013
Messages
153
Hey all,



I just got back from a week long Amtrak trip. By and large, Amtrak performed excellent and I had a wonderful time, but I wanted to ask everyone’s thoughts and opinions on lounge etiquette, specifically 3 categories:

  • Café Hours: Would it be asking too much to simply post the operating hours of the café? On all the trains, announcements regarding the attendant’s break times were sporadic, if at all, leading people to go to the lounge only to find it closed. They also seemed to be closed during some prime hours (like between 5-5:45) when one might want to get a snack or a pre-dinner drink. I fully understand and support the need for these hard working folks to take breaks; just communicate better. At least people can then plan ahead.

  • Sleeping in the lounge during the day: I saw some multiple seats being taken up by passengers for the entire day for a makeshift bed. Does anyone think this should be allowed during the day? Overnight hours (10PM-6AM) are a different story. But, who would police it, and would it be successful?

  • Excessive time spent in the lounge: I think EVERYONE should have reasonable access to the lounge, while at the same time, not having a “rule” as to how long one can stay there. To his credit, the conductor on the Westbound CZ did give guidelines to lounge usage as we headed up into the Rockies (4 people to a table, do not spread food/laptops over the table, and make EVERY seat available to passengers). Aside from that, I feel excessive time spent in the lounge (say, over 3 hours max) is disrespectful to others. If you see the lounge is full, move on and come back a little while later. Worse, I saw booths that were unoccupied with people, but had their belongings and food left there, effectively “saving” that table for whenever they chose to come back. I understand first come first served, but some attempt should be made to enforce common courtesy. But again, who would do it?
 
The conductor can police it, but that means it's also on him or her to take it seriously enough to do something about it. Other members have suggested simply moving whatever people leave unattended (for longer than a snack/restroom break) so you can make use of the abandoned table/chair. Not in the sense that you toss it on the floor but combine it into a corner of the table or put several chairs of holding material into one empty seat. What I find confusing are people who read in the observation car. Wouldn't it be quieter and easier to focus in your own room or seat? I guess they have their reasons.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
What I find confusing are people who read in the observation car. Wouldn't it be quieter and easier to focus in your own room or seat? I guess they have their reasons.
Click to expand...
We've always wondered about this too, particularly when a train is full and people want to use the observation car to observe the scenery.
 
Well, Amtrak crews in the field do what they like with no supervision. You experienced that with cafe hours. Per published policy in the Service Standards Manual, aka "Blue Book", cafe service hours are 6 am to midnight. I have never seen an LD cafe open until midnight, mostly they close up between 10 and 11. But one time they closed up at 5 pm for dinner break and never reopened. The attendant is entitled to meal breaks, the timing is up to them (also, apparently, the duration, see above). Amtrak has no published policy about posting break times. But, even if they did, it would probably be completely ignored as are so many of the "Service Standards".

Policing the use of the Sightseer is up to the conductors. Some are death on "lounge lizards" (people who like to sleep in the lounge) and will shoo out those who attempt to set up camp. Others do not care. Since there are multiple conductors on an LD trip, this may be inconsistent on the same trip. Kudos to the conductor who set forth rules for the Rockies, btw.

The only consistency in Amtrak onboard service is it's utter inconsistency. Some crews members are very good and customer oriented, others, not so much. Amtrak OBS is like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get.

This has been Amtrak's biggest problem that is wholly under its control and has been, literally, for decades. It is ingrained in the corporate culture. At best, Amtrak management has paid lip service, never a concerted effort to improve consistency and compliance.

Welcome to Amtrak travel.

PS, for a good laugh, the Service Standards manual is publicly available for download at Amtrak.com at:
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/...-service-standards-manual-040524-redacted.pdf
 
zephyr17 said:
Well, Amtrak crews in the field do what they like with no supervision. You experienced that with cafe hours. Per published policy in the Service Standards Manual, aka "Blue Book", cafe service hours are 6 am to midnight. I have never seen an LD cafe open until midnight, mostly they close up between 10 and 11. But one time they closed up at 5 pm for dinner break and never reopened. The attendant is entitled to meal breaks, the timing is up to them (also, apparently, the duration, see above). Amtrak has no published policy about posting break times. But, even if they did, it would probably be completely ignored as are so many of the "Service Standards".

Policing the use of the Sightseer is up to the conductors. Some are death on "lounge lizards" (people who like to sleep in the lounge) and will shoo out those who attempt to set up camp. Others do not care. Since there are multiple conductors on an LD trip, this may be inconsistent on the same trip. Kudos to the conductor who set forth rules for the Rockies, btw.

The only consistency in Amtrak onboard service is it's utter inconsistency. Some crews members are very good and customer oriented, others, not so much. Amtrak OBS is like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get.

This has been Amtrak's biggest problem that is wholly under its control and has been, literally, for decades. It is ingrained in the corporate culture. At best, Amtrak management has paid lip service, never a concerted effort to improve consistency and compliance.

Welcome to Amtrak travel.

PS, for a good laugh, the Service Standards manual is publicly available for download at Amtrak.com at:
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/...-service-standards-manual-040524-redacted.pdf
Click to expand...
One thing I will defend my former coworkers on is the issue of being open til midnight. Regardless of what the SS manual says, most lounge car jobs are set up, by management, so the attendant is only paid (scheduled to work) until 10 or 11PM.
 
OBS said:
One thing I will defend my former coworkers on is the issue of being open til midnight. Regardless of what the SS manual says, most lounge car jobs are set up, by management, so the attendant is only paid (scheduled to work) until 10 or 11PM.
Click to expand...
I am actually fine with the cafe hours until 11. I just used it as an example of how policy is ignored.

You make it an even better example, since you are pointing out that published standards are ignored by everybody, including management.
 
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My thoughts on this.... I would much rather an observation lounge be under-policed than over-policed. I've seen and experienced both.

I don't think there should be any time limits set or expected but I also don't think personal items or trash should be allowed to take up any seats / space especially when the lounge is even close to full.

The only time I've ever seen every seat filled in a SSL lounge is on the Zephyr going through the Rockies and only for that 1st hour or so.

I got really annoyed last summer by a high-school age tour guide on the Alaska RR that took it upon herself to police the dome car even when there were open seats. The summer before the Conductors encouraged me to hang out all I wanted in the dome!
 
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The times I've ridden Amtrak long distance trains, usually they weren't enforcing a lot of rules on the sightseer lounge car. That said I hope employees do remind passengers not to hog time and seats too much, if someone tries to do that. But to not overpolice doing that, but just to give gentle reminders of those rules is best policy.

As for the CZ, I could see employees more wanting to enforce rules between Denver and Glenwood Springs. At least when I've ridden Builder through southeast Minnesota while paralleling the Mississippi River, the employees weren't going overkill on enforcing rules.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
What I find confusing are people who read in the observation car. Wouldn't it be quieter and easier to focus in your own room or seat? I guess they have their reasons.
Click to expand...

Eric in East County said:
We've always wondered about this too, particularly when a train is full and people want to use the observation car to observe the scenery.
Click to expand...
Exactly!

Back in the RGZ days, one of the Rio Grande coach attendants, (“Curtis”), used to call out anyone up in a dome, with the audacity to sleep or read books, other than the “Vista-Dome Views” brochure distributed to each passenger, while the train was crossing the magnificent scenery in the Rockies. He did it good-naturedly, but it was effective in having those passengers put down their books, and/or sheepishly retire to their assigned seat, below.😎
 
On my recent ride across Canada on the Canadian, the day we crossed the Rockies, most of the passengers traveling thru from Toronto were very friendly, and got along great, sharing seats so that all could see good sights and take photos.
However, one selfish couple that boarded at Jasper, camped out in the Sleeper Plus Skyline dome, which was okay, but at their lunch time, left their belongings in their seats to “hold” their place while they were gone, almost an hour. When they returned, people commented loud enough for them to hear how inappropriate that was. They sat there for a short time longer, and then left for their room, and didn’t return for the remainder of the trip.
 
JoeRids said:
Hey all,



I just got back from a week long Amtrak trip. By and large, Amtrak performed excellent and I had a wonderful time, but I wanted to ask everyone’s thoughts and opinions on lounge etiquette, specifically 3 categories:

  • Café Hours: Would it be asking too much to simply post the operating hours of the café? On all the trains, announcements regarding the attendant’s break times were sporadic, if at all, leading people to go to the lounge only to find it closed. They also seemed to be closed during some prime hours (like between 5-5:45) when one might want to get a snack or a pre-dinner drink. I fully understand and support the need for these hard working folks to take breaks; just communicate better. At least people can then plan ahead.

  • Sleeping in the lounge during the day: I saw some multiple seats being taken up by passengers for the entire day for a makeshift bed. Does anyone think this should be allowed during the day? Overnight hours (10PM-6AM) are a different story. But, who would police it, and would it be successful?

  • Excessive time spent in the lounge: I think EVERYONE should have reasonable access to the lounge, while at the same time, not having a “rule” as to how long one can stay there. To his credit, the conductor on the Westbound CZ did give guidelines to lounge usage as we headed up into the Rockies (4 people to a table, do not spread food/laptops over the table, and make EVERY seat available to passengers). Aside from that, I feel excessive time spent in the lounge (say, over 3 hours max) is disrespectful to others. If you see the lounge is full, move on and come back a little while later. Worse, I saw booths that were unoccupied with people, but had their belongings and food left there, effectively “saving” that table for whenever they chose to come back. I understand first come first served, but some attempt should be made to enforce common courtesy. But again, who would do it?
Click to expand...
On the southwest chief the lounge car at night was just a sleeping car, there was one table being used for a card game the rest of the lounge was people sleeping across 3 seats. It sort of led me to thinking I would prefer to take in the lovely views from the window of my roomette
 
railiner said:
Exactly!

Back in the RGZ days, one of the Rio Grande coach attendants, (“Curtis”), used to call out anyone up in a dome, with the audacity to sleep or read books, other than the “Vista-Dome Views” brochure distributed to each passenger, while the train was crossing the magnificent scenery in the Rockies. He did it good-naturedly, but it was effective in having those passengers put down their books, and/or sheepishly retire to their assigned seat, below.😎
Click to expand...

Eric in East County said:
We've always wondered about this too, particularly when a train is full and people want to use the observation car to observe the scenery.
Click to expand...
The Lounge Car is widely and legitimately used for more than just constant looking out of the windows. Scenery watching is a great feature of the car but one can enjoy the car and take in the passing views while also reading, playing cards or other games, conversation, looking at a cell phone or tablet, etc. When a portion of the trip is especially scenic (e.g. Gore Canyon) those in the car who are indifferent to the scenery are annoying - I understand that. Sleeping in the lounge car during the day, reserving seats, and extended stays are inconsiderate, but as a reader I enjoy both reading and taking in the scenery. Sometimes people, waiting to return to their coach seat, sit in the lounge car waiting and wondering when the cafe is going to reopen!
 
I too am a reader that enjoys reading in the SSL. I read for awhile, then look out at the scenery for awhile, repeat x number of times. However, if the SSL is getting close to full, I move back to my seat or sleeper. There are windows there also. After all, when it's close to full, then it can get noisy and disrupt my reading! ; )
 
The practice of leaving personal items on shared lounge type seating, to “hold your spot”, while away for an extended period, doing something else, has long been a hot button issue aboard cruise ships, as is apparent by seeing how often it is debated on cruise forums…
 
When there were separate coach and first-class domes & lounges I never recall people camping out or every seat in use in every such space on the train. E.g., Northern Pacific on its North Coast Limited had at least two dome coaches plus the unique Traveller's Rest car and then on the other side of the dining car were two dome sleepers plus non-dome ones and an observation sleeper with its large lounge at the rear. No dome cars were next to each other, so forward viewing was optimal. The California Zephyr included four dome coaches (unfortunately all clumped together so only the first one had optimal forward viewing) and the observation-dome-sleeper at the rear. UP's domes were complemented by a dome dining car. We much preferred domes that were not full-length because that inhibited forward viewing. It's too bad the Canadian has put (into many domes) tables with backward-facing seats on the forward side. On the tourist trains in some states the same thing has been done. We rode one in Arkansas and I had to twist around to look out the front window which was to my back. People weren't eating anything but had to sit facing each other across empty tables as beautiful scenery went by.
 
jpakala said:
When there were separate coach and first-class domes & lounges I never recall people camping out or every seat in use in every such space on the train. E.g., Northern Pacific on its North Coast Limited had at least two dome coaches plus the unique Traveller's Rest car and then on the other side of the dining car were two dome sleepers plus non-dome ones and an observation sleeper with its large lounge at the rear. No dome cars were next to each other, so forward viewing was optimal. The California Zephyr included four dome coaches (unfortunately all clumped together so only the first one had optimal forward viewing) and the observation-dome-sleeper at the rear. UP's domes were complemented by a dome dining car. We much preferred domes that were not full-length because that inhibited forward viewing. It's too bad the Canadian has put (into many domes) tables with backward-facing seats on the forward side. On the tourist trains in some states the same thing has been done. We rode one in Arkansas and I had to twist around to look out the front window which was to my back. People weren't eating anything but had to sit facing each other across empty tables as beautiful scenery went by.
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The first time we rode the Coast Starlight was back in 1997 when we took it from Los Angeles to Seattle. Back then, there were two (2) sightseer lounge cars, one for coach passengers and one for sleeping car passengers. For that trip, there was even a wine tasting event in the sleeping car passengers' lounge car.

In 1999 we rode the Southwest Chief from Los Angeles to Chicago. There was only one sightseer lounge car for everybody. For that particular trip, a Navajo speaker came on board in Gallup and did a special presentation in the lounge car about the “Wind Talkers” from World War II. (The U.S. Army used Navajos, speaking their own language, to send unencrypted radio messages during combat. The enemy was never able to decipher these messages.)
 
Eric in East County said:
In 1999 we rode the Southwest Chief from Los Angeles to Chicago. There was only one sightseer lounge car for everybody. For that particular trip, a Navajo speaker came on board in Gallup and did a special presentation in the lounge car about the “Wind Talkers” from World War II. (The U.S. Army used Navajos, speaking their own language, to send unencrypted radio messages during combat. The enemy was never able to decipher these messages.)
Click to expand...
Weren’t they called, “Code Talkers”?🤔
 
crescent-zephyr said:
Since we are talking about SSL etiquette, it's also worth mentioning that the lower level of SSL's are often taken over by Amtrak crew these days. That of course reduces the amount of seating space in the SSL car by about 20 or so. (I think there are 5 booths down there? Can't remember).
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April 2023 - trash box blockade/
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