Reverse SDL loophole trip

[ALC Rail Writer]

So really these loopholes are really useless for anybody who doesn't live near them.. because it would require one to purchase a ticket to and from the destination cities.

Right. If you don't want to start or end along the routes of the Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, California Zephyr, Southwest Chief, Texas Eagle, or Crescent between Atlanta and New Orleans, as well as the California, Washington-Oregon, and Midwest corridor trains, then, it might be a tough sell. I mean that's only about two-thirds of the nation that can take advantage....

I travel to PDX a lot-- from ALC. The border of the second zone is TOL. If you plug in TOL/PDX you get CL/LSL and EB maybe EB to SEA and Cascades. BUT if you plug in CHI-PDX you get the SWC to CS... a much more rewarding trip. Does this mean TOL-PDX via LAX is not valid while CHI-PDX via LAX is? That doesn't make much sense given that all the connections would work. Granted, its only four hours in a roomette, but you might wanna squeeze every penny you can out of it--

Actually, in the above example, going to PDX via LAX would be a nice treat-- and I do want to go to PDX do I'd just take the EB back. AND because I'd save money on the coach fare (each way on the EB is about $230 low bucket) I could easily get a low bucket roomette on the way home to CHI at least.

But the above isn't really a loophole, is it? Seems too simple.

 

[sechs]

Isn't the issue what Arrow will show, not whether the routing via Los Angeles is valid or not?

For example, if you choose Klamath Falls, which is off the Cascades route, then you get that route -- last. When you choose Ontario in the previous example, what you're doing is eliminating the first-shown alternate routings from Arrow. This allows the more convoluted or perceived dispreferred one to actually appear.

 

[the_traveler]

I travel to PDX a lot-- from ALC. The border of the second zone is TOL. If you plug in TOL/PDX you get CL/LSL and EB maybe EB to SEA and Cascades. BUT if you plug in CHI-PDX you get the SWC to CS... a much more rewarding trip. Does this mean TOL-PDX via LAX is not valid while CHI-PDX via LAX is? That doesn't make much sense given that all the connections would work. Granted, its only four hours in a roomette, but you might wanna squeeze every penny you can out of it--
Actually, in the above example, going to PDX via LAX would be a nice treat-- and I do want to go to PDX do I'd just take the EB back. AND because I'd save money on the coach fare (each way on the EB is about $230 low bucket) I could easily get a low bucket roomette on the way home to CHI at least.

But the above isn't really a loophole, is it? Seems too simple.

No, it not a loophole, but I did just that in March!

Using a northeast zone award, I could get to BUF for 3,000 points. When I tried TOL-PDX, it only gave me the EB. But if I started in CHI, I got the via LAX routing. So I started my award in CHI!

To me, that was worth the extra $17 fare from BUF!

 

[the_traveler]

Isn't the issue what Arrow will show, not whether the routing via Los Angeles is valid or not?
For example, if you choose Klamath Falls, which is off the Cascades route, then you get that route -- last. When you choose Ontario in the previous example, what you're doing is eliminating the first-shown alternate routings from Arrow. This allows the more convoluted or perceived dispreferred one to actually appear.

Actually not really. If you chose Albany or Salem, OR, it routes you via PDX and then an Ambus (not a Cascade).

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I travel to PDX a lot-- from ALC. The border of the second zone is TOL. If you plug in TOL/PDX you get CL/LSL and EB maybe EB to SEA and Cascades. BUT if you plug in CHI-PDX you get the SWC to CS... a much more rewarding trip. Does this mean TOL-PDX via LAX is not valid while CHI-PDX via LAX is? That doesn't make much sense given that all the connections would work. Granted, its only four hours in a roomette, but you might wanna squeeze every penny you can out of it--
Actually, in the above example, going to PDX via LAX would be a nice treat-- and I do want to go to PDX do I'd just take the EB back. AND because I'd save money on the coach fare (each way on the EB is about $230 low bucket) I could easily get a low bucket roomette on the way home to CHI at least.

But the above isn't really a loophole, is it? Seems too simple.

No, it not a loophole, but I did just that in March!

Using a northeast zone award, I could get to BUF for 3,000 points. When I tried TOL-PDX, it only gave me the EB. But if I started in CHI, I got the via LAX routing. So I started my award in CHI!

To me, that was worth the extra $17 fare from BUF!

Of course in my case I can always get the coach ticket from ALC-CHI on 5,500 in points, however using the 1.6¢ rule it doesn't work out with my SA discount.

That's actually a very nice way of earning/spending points right there:

ALC-CHI: (low bucket) $61 = 122 RP + 60 S Bonus

CHI-LAX-PDX: 20,000 2Z Reward

PDX-CHI: (low bucket) $221 + $216 (roomette) = 874 RP + 437 Bonus.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

[*]ABQ is the border of the midwest and western zone. If you go ABQ-NOL, it will route you (depending on the day of the week) ABQ-LAX-NOL, ABQ-CHI-NOL, ABQ-CHI-CVS-NOL or (I believe) ABQ-CHI-WAS-NOL! And because both ABQ and NOL are in the midwest zone, this should be a 1 zone award too!

Now you have my attention! Your saying you can go from ABQ get routed across the country to WAS for a one zone reward?? What does that booking agent say when they take only one zone worth of points away while your clearly crossing zone boarders left and right!

 

[the_traveler]

[*]ABQ is the border of the midwest and western zone. If you go ABQ-NOL, it will route you (depending on the day of the week) ABQ-LAX-NOL, ABQ-CHI-NOL, ABQ-CHI-CVS-NOL or (I believe) ABQ-CHI-WAS-NOL! And because both ABQ and NOL are in the midwest zone, this should be a 1 zone award too!

Now you have my attention! Your saying you can go from ABQ get routed across the country to WAS for a one zone reward?? What does that booking agent say when they take only one zone worth of points away while your clearly crossing zone boarders left and right!

They don't really say anything. When I book my PDX-BHM trips, they only look at the origination and destination points.

PDX - That's in the western zone.BHM - That's in the central zone.

That will be 2 zones!

I even once switched (after booking) from BHM to NOL - staying on the Crescent. The agent looked at the charts and said

PDX-NOL - That will still be a 2 zone award!

 

[Long Train Runnin']

[*]ABQ is the border of the midwest and western zone. If you go ABQ-NOL, it will route you (depending on the day of the week) ABQ-LAX-NOL, ABQ-CHI-NOL, ABQ-CHI-CVS-NOL or (I believe) ABQ-CHI-WAS-NOL! And because both ABQ and NOL are in the midwest zone, this should be a 1 zone award too!

Now you have my attention! Your saying you can go from ABQ get routed across the country to WAS for a one zone reward?? What does that booking agent say when they take only one zone worth of points away while your clearly crossing zone boarders left and right!

They don't really say anything. When I book my PDX-BHM trips, they only look at the origination and destination points.

PDX - That's in the western zone.BHM - That's in the central zone.

That will be 2 zones!

I even once switched (after booking) from BHM to NOL - staying on the Crescent. The agent looked at the charts and said

PDX-NOL - That will still be a 2 zone award!

I see so how do you select a routing though? Yes I am going to New Orleans but can I go to Washington? I guess when I finally save up some points I'll found out.

 

[the_traveler]

I see so how do you select a routing though? Yes I am going to New Orleans but can I go to Washington? I guess when I finally save up some points I'll found out.

Just pick a "From" and "To" city and see what it gives. But pick different cities and on different routes. (Don't pick for example NOL to NOL. Or if you pick SDL-NOL or HMD-NOL, it will give you a 1/2 hour trip on the Crescent or CONO only. But if you pick HMD-SDL for example, it will give you a 3 day trip! Then buy the 1 stop coach tickets to/from NOL.)

If you mean between NOL and WAS, that would be a 2 zone trip. If you mean (for example) PDX-BHM via WAS, and get off in WAS and not get on the Crescent, technically no. That would be a 3 zone award. (To BHM would be a 2 zone award.) You may not get caught, but you may find another 15,000 was taken out of your account for the 3rd zone. (A semi-legal way around that is to get on the Crescent, go 1 stop to ALX, MAKE SURE YOUR TICKET IS PULLED - then get off and take the Metro back to WAS! The Metro is right at the ALX station!)

But if you do this - DO NOT CHECK BAGS! They would be checked thru to BHM, ATL or wherever.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

[*]ABQ is the border of the midwest and western zone. If you go ABQ-NOL, it will route you (depending on the day of the week) ABQ-LAX-NOL, ABQ-CHI-NOL, ABQ-CHI-CVS-NOL or (I believe) ABQ-CHI-WAS-NOL! And because both ABQ and NOL are in the midwest zone, this should be a 1 zone award too!

Now you have my attention! Your saying you can go from ABQ get routed across the country to WAS for a one zone reward?? What does that booking agent say when they take only one zone worth of points away while your clearly crossing zone boarders left and right!

They don't really say anything. When I book my PDX-BHM trips, they only look at the origination and destination points.

PDX - That's in the western zone.BHM - That's in the central zone.

That will be 2 zones!

I even once switched (after booking) from BHM to NOL - staying on the Crescent. The agent looked at the charts and said

PDX-NOL - That will still be a 2 zone award!

That actually would work for me... again, PDX. I'd just have to cough up the 150-220 for the ticket to BHM and make the short-turn there.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

I see so how do you select a routing though? Yes I am going to New Orleans but can I go to Washington? I guess when I finally save up some points I'll found out.

Just pick a "From" and "To" city and see what it gives. But pick different cities and on different routes. (Don't pick for example NOL to NOL. Or if you pick SDL-NOL or HMD-NOL, it will give you a 1/2 hour trip on the Crescent or CONO only. But if you pick HMD-SDL for example, it will give you a 3 day trip! Then buy the 1 stop coach tickets to/from NOL.)

If you mean between NOL and WAS, that would be a 2 zone trip. If you mean (for example) PDX-BHM via WAS, and get off in WAS and not get on the Crescent, technically no. That would be a 3 zone award. (To BHM would be a 2 zone award.) You may not get caught, but you may find another 15,000 was taken out of your account for the 3rd zone. (A semi-legal way around that is to get on the Crescent, go 1 stop to ALX, MAKE SURE YOUR TICKET IS PULLED - then get off and take the Metro back to WAS! The Metro is right at the ALX station!)

But if you do this - DO NOT CHECK BAGS! They would be checked thru to BHM, ATL or wherever.

Right I just meant I can't imagine the booking people just let things like that through. I mean its great but you would think they would have noticed?

 

[the_traveler]

Right I just meant I can't imagine the booking people just let things like that through. I mean its great but you would think they would have noticed?

Don't forget that many AGR agents (even when they were in MSP) have never been on an Amtrak train! (And now that they're located in Canada, it's even lower!) They basically look at the origination point and destination point to determine how many zones to charge.

Before my last redemption, I had the AGR agent tell me about

... they now have "new" sleepers that have all roomettes on the upper level!

(I think they're called transitional dorms - and how long have they been around! )

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

So traveler, what is your methodology when you look for these loophole stations? Do you look for two stations within the same or in seperate zones that have the most impossibly complex routings?

 

[the_traveler]

Yes - and YES!

 

[Upstate]

So would this be possible:

SCH(Schriever, LA)-LAX , LAX-PDX , PDX-CBS(Columbus, WI)

SCH to CBS doesn't have any options come up on the website so as I understand it they would have to do by hand. Do you think that you could get away with taking the west coast route (either CS or Ambus/SJ), or would they make you go up the CONO?

 

[the_traveler]

I really don't know what they would do. But I suspect that they may make you take the CONO.

 

[sechs]

Actually not really. If you chose Albany or Salem, OR, it routes you via PDX and then an Ambus (not a Cascade).

You mean, not a train. Those are "Cascades" buses.

The point is, however, to get the routing via Los Angeles, for which choosing Klamath Falls (or Chemult, or any other stop south of Eugene) does.

 

[apbIowa]

Darn Arrow...

I tried a 1Z from ABQ>WPT but it won't route directly.

It will do:

ABQ>PDX via LAX -AND-

LAX>WPT via PDX though... just not both at same time.

Via Multi-city though (I know, not AGR approved) both

ABQ>LAX>WPT -AND-

ABQ>PDX>WPT work, so I dont' think it is a timing thing.

Could it be Arrow is willing to risk one lost connection, but not two when it involves the CS?