Pennsylvanian (the train(s) and route) discussion

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Using the same platforms for through trains and those ending their run at Pittsburgh is complicated by the fact that those not going farther can use stub tracks, of which at least historically there were a lot (I lived there from 1944-72). Heading west out of the station's north side the tracks almost immediately cross the Allegheny River (the bridge at least used to have both an upper & lower level each with two tracks). The through tracks on the station's south side (stub tracks in between) were removed years ago (they were used by trains to Columbus-Indianapolis-St. Louis as well as Cincinnati & such). The one Pittsburgh subway line is short, mainly going under the Allegheny River & part of downtown, but it's above ground otherwise and uses that old PRR route & bridge over the Monongahela River. Then it serves the south suburbs after using as I recall the old Pittsburgh & WV's tunnel (long abandoned).
 
Septa9739 said:
Largely interlockings, addition of multiple mainline trackage (which was probably removed in the last 30 years) and that sort of thing. I think some platform work. The state loves throwing money at NS. This isn’t a total ripoff for the work being done (necessary or not). We’re getting a new train for our trouble this time. Yes they should have pushed for a third trip, but this is not the worst boondoggle going on right now. Chances are NS was gonna get the dough anyway. I’m glad we’re gonna get a train for it.
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jis said:
Only the track capacity component needed by NS needs to be completed AFAIK.
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As jis and Septa9739 stated, the primary component related to the NS physical plant of the Pittsburgh Line is the restoration of track and associated interlockings and signaling on that segment, which comprises the non-electrified former Pennsy 4-track main once known as the “Broadway” — roughly 70% of the Keystone Corridor.

While the addition of a third “Pennsylvanian” might not be foremost on the horizon at present, one thing that IS noteworthy was the addition of a third round-trip of the NE Regional serving Norfolk, Va., since July 2022, as well as a second round-trip serving Roanoke. The Norfolk regionals utilize the eastern portion of the Norfolk District (now a part of the NS Pocahontas Division) — east of Petersburg, while the Roanoke regionals utilize the portion of that District west of Lynchburg, as well as the NS Piedmont Division (Lynchburg-Alexandria).

I’ve not researched the respective freight densities of these NS Virginia segments in comparison to that of the NS Pittsburgh Line on the company’s Pittsburgh Division, hosting the “Pennsylvanian”. Prior to the Conrail dissolution, the Norfolk District (formerly “Norfolk Territory”) had been the busiest trunk line of the original Norfolk & Western, prior to the 1982 merger with Southern Ry. The last passenger service between Norfolk and Petersburg (the Mountaineer”) had been cancelled in 1977 (replaced with the “Hilltopper”, which interchanged with the SCL (“Family Lines System) at Petersburg, leaving the former Norfolk Territory east of that point without any passenger rail until 2012.

Although the Pittsburgh Line arguably is NS’s currently busiest freight corridor, it also has the highest potential for increased and shared capacity, because of its pre-existing 4-track wide right-of-way (with one or in some cases two tracks currently removed). Very few if any other currently existing mains of such distance and downgraded from 4 to 3 or 2 tracks outside the NEC can claim that capability or its potential.

So while a third round-trip along the current “Pennsylvanian” route might seem to be “jumping the gun” (as it were), that prospect and more in the form of future and multiple connections to Cleveland and to Columbus (as otherwise proposed) would be justifiable rationale, in concert with proposals for Midwest (Ohio) expansions in the long term.
 
Some excitement on the train Saturday: waiting on departure of 43 in Philadelphia, which was moments overdue, a middle aged, slightly grey haired woman came running into BC in a panic, screaming "Emergency! Emergency!"

Tried unsuccessfully to exit the front entry door to the platform which had been closed, continuing to scream bloody murder. Not able to escape, her solution was to...Pull the emergency brake!

The train, evidently attempting to move at that very instant, lurched backward a couple of feet. She ran out of the rear car into the snack car.

A brief announcement followed that we would be delayed due to technical issues and crew was onsite to inspect. Another passenger in the car (not me), also trying unsuccessfully to exit to alert said crew, frantically flagged them down through a window.

One came in and calmly reset the brake. Minutes later after a brake check we were on our way.

I later asked the conductor about the incident and if this was a good one to tell his peers back in the home office. He reported that she, without passage, had helped her mother board and panicked when the doors closed believing, rightfully so, that she would be taken on a free unwanted, but illegal, trip to Paoli.

We arrived in Pittsburgh 28 minutes late. No harm, no major foul. No information on the fate of the saboteur. Probably a good talking to.
 
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Should be arrested. She had no business being down on the platform without a ticket. And had no business being in the train and pulling the emergency brake.

This reminds me of an incident I witnessed at the old amshack in St. Louis.

I was about 12 years old and had convinced my parents to let me do a day trip to STL from Chicago.

I was sitting in the station watching the EB National Limited prepare to depart. The conductor was leaning out the door of an amcoach with the traps up. A passenger pushed by and jumped to the platform.
 
Steve4031 said:
Should be arrested. She had no business being down on the platform without a ticket. And had no business being in the train and pulling the emergency brake.
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Regardless of the many differences in policing philosophy between the DA, many of his ADA’s, the USA’s, mayor, governor, president, Philly PD, Amtrak PD, Septa PD, and whoever else, I can promise you incarcerating people for pulling emergency brakes at low speed, causing minimal damage, because they were helping a little old lady get on to the train is number 857 on the transit crime reduction plan of absolutely everyone out here, just behind walking in between subway cars and ahead of jaywalking.

Stupid yes, but prosecutors would have a snowballs chance in Southtown.
 
Steve4031 said:
Should be arrested. She had no business being down on the platform without a ticket. And had no business being in the train and pulling the emergency brake.

This reminds me of an incident I witnessed at the old amshack in St. Louis.

I was about 12 years old and had convinced my parents to let me do a day trip to STL from Chicago.

I was sitting in the station watching the EB National Limited prepare to depart. The conductor was leaning out the door of an amcoach with the traps up. A passenger pushed by and jumped to the platform.
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Eh, helping a friend/family member to the train strikes me as a valid reason to be on the platform. Not on the train, but at least the platform, especially if the red caps aren't being particularly useful.
 
PaTrainFan said:
Some excitement on the train Saturday: waiting on departure of 43 in Philadelphia, which was moments overdue, a middle aged, slightly grey haired woman came running into BC in a panic, screaming "Emergency! Emergency!"

Tried unsuccessfully to exit the front entry door to the platform which had been closed, continuing to scream bloody murder. Not able to escape, her solution was to...Pull the emergency brake!

The train, evidently attempting to move at that very instant, lurched backward a couple of feet. She ran out of the rear car into the snack car.

A brief announcement followed that we would be delayed due to technical issues and crew was onsite to inspect. Another passenger in the car (not me), also trying unsuccessfully to exit to alert said crew, frantically flagged them down through a window.

One came in and calmly reset the brake. Minutes later after a brake check we were on our way.

I later asked the conductor about the incident and if this was a good one to tell his peers back in the home office. He reported that she, without passage, had helped her mother board and panicked when the doors closed believing, rightfully so, that she would be taken on a free unwanted, but illegal, trip to Paoli.

We arrived in Pittsburgh 28 minutes late. No harm, no major foul. No information on the fate of the saboteur. Probably a good talking to.
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So what's the policy for dealing with these sort of situations? What if a passenger misses a stop, do they arrest him? My only experience wth this was boarding a Northeast Regional with an unreserved ticket back when they were starting to make some of the trains reserved, and I didn't realize the train I had boarded required a reservation. All the conductor did was kick me off at the first stop. No arrest and prosecution. Of course, I actually had a valid ticked and had paid my fare.

But, as SEPTA9739 said, I don't think prosecuting a little old lady who has helping her mother on the train would be a very high priority for prosecution, and if the authorities tried it, I suspect we'd have a very nice scandal for our online entertainment.
 
MARC Rider said:
Why? We involve the police in way too many things in our society.
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I agree. There is absolutely no justification for involving the police in issues like inappropriate pulling of emergency chord unless it is a precursor to some additional crime involving violence, like looting, which trusts me, happens in some places in the world. haven't heard of such incidents in the US.
 
This scene came right out of an "I Love Lucy" episode on the City of LA. The police weren't called for that, only for the on-board jewerly robber. Just a pissed off conductor who won a bet from the engineer.
 
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Steve4031 said:
I will stand down on that one. I assumed that pulling the emergency brake caused the train to stop suddenly and could cause injury. I also assumed that only authorized people should use the emergency brake.
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Right, we hadn't moved yet. Though as soon as she pulled it, we did lurch back a few feet which seemed odd. I'm thinking the engineer tried to accelerate at that exact moment but was prevented from moving forward.
 
I think the brake cord is there so that anyone can pull it in an emergency. If it is supposed to be pulled only by authorized railroad personnel, there should be a big warning sign on it saying "Don't pull this unless there is a real emergency. Violators subject to prosecution" and I don't remember ever seeing any such sign.

Lots of passengers won't know that the cord actually activates the brakes and doesn't just send a signal (bell or flashing light of some sort) to the engineer or conductor, like the "stop requested" cord or button on a bus or trolley.

It does sound like the woman tried desperately to alert the train crew that she needed to get off, but was unable to attract anyone's attention. Also, when she boarded with her mother, the conductor or attendant probably asked her where she was seated and told her where her mother's seat was and how long she had to get off before the train left. Maybe she had trouble pushing her way back to the door if there were lots of other boarding passengers. (Her mother should have asked for and received early boarding, giving the daughter more time to get her settled in and to get off the train herself.) Sounds like lots of things went wrong, and still, no harm, no foul.

People's idea of what constitutes a real emergency can vary. One time when my upstairs neighbor was about 2, he was playing in the sand pile on one side of the house while his mother and I were talking on the porch at the other side. Ben came around the corner yelling "Mom! Mom! There's an emergency going on!" She said "Is it a real emergency or a pretend emergency?" He replied "The dump truck is stuck in the sand." She said "Ben, that's a pretend emergency." He then repeated "Mom! Mom! It's a REAL pretend emergency!"
 
I have helped a family member carry on a heavy suitcase to place onto the Superliner racks, kissed, and then got off quickly. As I was carrying the suitcase on, I was telling the OBS/Conductor that I need to get back off, and I did, quickly. I suppose if I had been trapped, I would have asked to get off at the next town or whatever the OBS wanted me to do. Pulling the emergency brake would have never entered my mind as an option for that kind of situation.
 
I also need to stop criticizing this lady for helping her mom. I have done the same for my girlfriend on the Lincoln Service. There was one occasion when boarding started late. GF was in business class at the head end. I got her situated and then had to hustle to get off. I knew the train was preparing for departure quickly due to the terse nature of the conductor's announcement. I had to hustle to get off. Then, I got a scolding when I was walking on the platform back to the station.

I would have used a red cap and not gotten in this predicament if red caps had been available. I asked in the metropolitan lounge and was told none were working that morning.

If I had not gotten off the train in time, I would have tried to purchase a ticket on my phone. However, I think this would be impossible after the train departs. I have never tried this.

What do conductors do in this case, I assume they have the ability to sell a ticket with a penalty added for not buying the ticket in the station.
 
"What if a passenger misses a stop, do they arrest him?" I'm sure the reference to involving the police was about pulling the emergency cord, not because the woman hadn't paid. When I was commuting on Virginia Railway Express, though, conductors would issue citations to passengers who boarded without a validated ticket. Those who got citations had a choice of paying the fine or going to court to dispute it.

I suspect that the woman without a ticket did not pay attention to the time and was cutting it too close getting off the train. Emergency indeed.
 
Steve4031 said:
What do conductors do in this case, I assume they have the ability to sell a ticket with a penalty added for not buying the ticket in the station.
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I think it depends on the conductor.

Happened to me as a teenager once. I fell asleep and missed my stop, and had no cash on me to pay the extra fare. The conductor looked me sternly in the eye and said "don't do it again".
 

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