Notes from WisARP Meeting

[Metra Electric Guest]

I recall Walker going on record as being all for improvements to the existing Hiawatha service, but can't really remember more than that (from around the time of the Talgo cancellation). The architects for the new Intermodal Train Shed are upstairs from me, I should ask them about it when I bump into them in the elevator, which is rarely.

 

[Eric S]

Walker has a lot of irons in the fire, but the High Speed Rail they tried to put in from Milwaukee to Madison was full of holes and not one he wanted to keep in the fire. Talking to family who lived along the route, it would not have stopped at some places, unless the city or village PAID for the stop to be put in. Further biggest gripe from the non train supporters was the fact that the train did not intend to go into Madison, but rather to the airport which is on the fringe of the north side of the city. Then they were arguing in good ol Socialist Republic of Madison on whether busses will be used to get people from the airport to the downtown area and if that would cause more busses to be needed and increase a CNG footprint.

I support trains, but lets have some common sense. If it is to connect Milwaukee to Madison, then have it go where the people need it to go.

HF

The MKE-MSN Hiawatha extension from a few years ago did indeed initially include a Madison station at the airport, rather than downtown - that was because MKE-MSN was the first phase, and further extensions to the Twin Cities would have used the line along the airport - so the airport was chosen for a legitimate reason (but certainly one that there were many arguments against). However, the MSN station was changed from the airport to downtown (near Monona Terrace) as the plans were refined and nearing (expected) construction. Intermediate stops were planned in Brookfield, Oconomowoc, and Watertown. As I recall, the communities were expected to assume ongoing maintenance of the stations, but the project would have constructed them (or at least constructed a basic station, that the community could choose to enhance if desired).

Let's be clear, though - Walker did not oppose the MKE-MSN extension because it was not well thought out - if that was truly the case, he could have worked to improve the plan.

 

[andersone]

A long time ago while pursuing some graduate work Madison had a Mayor (very young recent student) who used a canoe to commute. Of courses they also had dollar pitchers at the union so my memory may be blurred

 

[neroden]

Walker has a lot of irons in the fire, but the High Speed Rail they tried to put in from Milwaukee to Madison was full of holes and not one he wanted to keep in the fire. Talking to family who lived along the route, it would not have stopped at some places, unless the city or village PAID for the stop to be put in. Further biggest gripe from the non train supporters was the fact that the train did not intend to go into Madison, but rather to the airport which is on the fringe of the north side of the city.

The Madison train was going to Monona Terrace. Has Walker been spreading lies again? That has been his M.O.

 

[neroden]

I recall Walker going on record as being all for improvements to the existing Hiawatha service, but can't really remember more than that (from around the time of the Talgo cancellation). The architects for the new Intermodal Train Shed are upstairs from me, I should ask them about it when I bump into them in the elevator, which is rarely.

They had to redesign the Milwaukee station for level boarding. After Walker's antics, he prevented the design from being grandfathered, and the FRA refused to issue any exemptions.

I'd love to know how they'll achieve level boarding for both the Empire Builder and the Horizon/Amfleets. Should be a big, complicated job.

 

[John Bredin]

I recall Walker going on record as being all for improvements to the existing Hiawatha service, but can't really remember more than that (from around the time of the Talgo cancellation). The architects for the new Intermodal Train Shed are upstairs from me, I should ask them about it when I bump into them in the elevator, which is rarely.

They had to redesign the Milwaukee station for level boarding. After Walker's antics, he prevented the design from being grandfathered, and the FRA refused to issue any exemptions.

I'd love to know how they'll achieve level boarding for both the Empire Builder and the Horizon/Amfleets. Should be a big, complicated job.

I should think platforms of different heights, as at the newly-redesigned Denver Union Station with low platforms for Amtrak and high platforms for the electric commuter trains.

As stated at this meeting, WisDOT is planning to remodel the MKE train shed with overhead bridges between the platforms instead of the ADA-noncompliant tunnel that's there now.

Ah, found a news story mentioning multiple platform heights: http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/all-aboard-milwaukees-intermodal-station-due-for-upgrade-b9985161z1-221629401.html The accompanying drawing doesn't show different platform heights, but then again it shows a man sunk into the center platform to his knees. :blink:

 

[WICT106]

Walker has a lot of irons in the fire, but the High Speed Rail they tried to put in from Milwaukee to Madison was full of holes and not one he wanted to keep in the fire. Talking to family who lived along the route, it would not have stopped at some places, unless the city or village PAID for the stop to be put in. Further biggest gripe from the non train supporters was the fact that the train did not intend to go into Madison, but rather to the airport which is on the fringe of the north side of the city. Then they were arguing in good ol Socialist Republic of Madison on whether busses will be used to get people from the airport to the downtown area and if that would cause more busses to be needed and increase a CNG footprint.

I support trains, but lets have some common sense. If it is to connect Milwaukee to Madison, then have it go where the people need it to go.

HF

No -- there was a study commissioned circa 2000 - 2001, of Dane County residents, showing that those of us who live in the surrounding area wanted the station at the airport, not downtown. That study, in addition to the reasons listed in Eric S.' reply, were why the Madison station was at the airport. Many Milwaukee area folks ignored or failed to think of why Dane County residents wanted a station at the airport. (hint: it involved parking -- people would drive to the station, and trains are supplements to driving buses and flying, not replacements ) .

 

[WICT106]

Walker has a lot of irons in the fire, but the High Speed Rail they tried to put in from Milwaukee to Madison was full of holes and not one he wanted to keep in the fire. Talking to family who lived along the route, it would not have stopped at some places, unless the city or village PAID for the stop to be put in. Further biggest gripe from the non train supporters was the fact that the train did not intend to go into Madison, but rather to the airport which is on the fringe of the north side of the city. Then they were arguing in good ol Socialist Republic of Madison on whether busses will be used to get people from the airport to the downtown area and if that would cause more busses to be needed and increase a CNG footprint.

I support trains, but lets have some common sense. If it is to connect Milwaukee to Madison, then have it go where the people need it to go.

HF

The MKE-MSN Hiawatha extension from a few years ago did indeed initially include a Madison station at the airport, rather than downtown - that was because MKE-MSN was the first phase, and further extensions to the Twin Cities would have used the line along the airport - so the airport was chosen for a legitimate reason (but certainly one that there were many arguments against). However, the MSN station was changed from the airport to downtown (near Monona Terrace) as the plans were refined and nearing (expected) construction. Intermediate stops were planned in Brookfield, Oconomowoc, and Watertown. As I recall, the communities were expected to assume ongoing maintenance of the stations, but the project would have constructed them (or at least constructed a basic station, that the community could choose to enhance if desired).

Let's be clear, though - Walker did not oppose the MKE-MSN extension because it was not well thought out - if that was truly the case, he could have worked to improve the plan.

Agreed.

 

[Ryan]

but then again it shows a man sunk into the center platform to his knees. :blink:

The dude in the blue shirt and black jacket?

If I look just behind him, I see what looks like a handrail for a descending staircase, presumably down to the tunnels?

 

[Eric S]

but then again it shows a man sunk into the center platform to his knees. :blink:

The dude in the blue shirt and black jacket?

If I look just behind him, I see what looks like a handrail for a descending staircase, presumably down to the tunnels?

Yeah, I think you're right - it does look likes he's coming up the stairs from the tunnel. Which is interesting, because everything I had seen suggested that the tunnel and ramps would be refurbished but closed to regular service as they do not meet current (presumably ADA) standards.

 

[Eric S]

I recall Walker going on record as being all for improvements to the existing Hiawatha service, but can't really remember more than that (from around the time of the Talgo cancellation). The architects for the new Intermodal Train Shed are upstairs from me, I should ask them about it when I bump into them in the elevator, which is rarely.

They had to redesign the Milwaukee station for level boarding. After Walker's antics, he prevented the design from being grandfathered, and the FRA refused to issue any exemptions.

I'd love to know how they'll achieve level boarding for both the Empire Builder and the Horizon/Amfleets. Should be a big, complicated job.

Switching the Hiawatha to new bilevels could simplify things.

 

[Metra Electric Guest]

Hanno Weber (the trainshed architect) gave me a postcard with sections of the trainshed advertising a lecture at UWM in 2013 which shows low level platforms with weird looking bilevel coaches, an overhead bridge/walkway with elevators and escalators as well as hinting at an unused tunnel. The copyright on the image is, however, 2011. There is some reminiscence to Waterloo International Terminal for the first Eurostar services in London and contemporary airport terminal design. As I said, when I run into him, I'll try to ask. I may or may not get a good answer.