New Report Shows Delays on Freight Railroad Lines Cost Amtrak Millions

[George Harris]

There is a good deal of 79mph between TCL and BHM and then a fair number sections between BHM and ATN and then a few smaller sections between ATN and ATL. I have been at the stations in ATN and TCL and hear the defect detectors come over the scanner announcing the speed being in the upper 70s and occasionally reaching the lower 80s. . . .

One thing I've noticed that makes no sense on Amtrak's part is that the NB and SB are scheduled to stop in Tuscaloosa so close together that its impossible for both trains to arrive on time, . . .

My statements were based on the employee timetables. Unfortunately, the are still in a box somewhere since moving last July. To the best of my recollection, the fastest speed in the ETT between Birmingham and Atlanta was a few miles of 65 mph. True the line speed is 79 mph, and the lower speeds do say "for curves between mpA and mpB" but there are few areas where the curves are far enough apart to get much increase above the curve speed. The few miles west of Anniston are probably the straightest. And, yes, once you are west of Birmingham there are significant lengths track where 79 mph is possible.

Not sure how well claibrated the speeds are on the defect detectors. Under the current regulartory system, no engineer wanting to keep his job would ever allow himself to get more than a couple mph above the 79 mph, and then be sure that he did not stay there.

The meet near Tuscaloosa in the Amtrak schedule makes no sense as it does not conincide with a siding location, unless NS has installed one that does not show up in the late 80's ETT that I have. Therefore, in reality it does not work. One or the other of the trains will be late at Tuscaloosa. There is no need to move the meeting point to Meridian. Just pick any siding location that works.

***

Concerning PTC and a lot of other one solution to all problems ideas: There are NO "Magic Bullets" and never forget it.

 

[TVRM610]

There is a good deal of 79mph between TCL and BHM and then a fair number sections between BHM and ATN and then a few smaller sections between ATN and ATL. I have been at the stations in ATN and TCL and hear the defect detectors come over the scanner announcing the speed being in the upper 70s and occasionally reaching the lower 80s.

My statements were based on the employee timetables. Unfortunately, the are still in a box somewhere since moving last July. To the best of my recollection, the fastest speed in the ETT between Birmingham and Atlanta was a few miles of 65 mph. True the line speed is 79 mph, and the lower speeds do say "for curves between mpA and mpB" but there are few areas where the curves are far enough apart to get much increase above the curve speed. The few miles west of Anniston are probably the straightest. And, yes, once you are west of Birmingham there are significant lengths track where 79 mph is possible.

In my riding experience there are a few spots where the train gets up to 79 between ATL and BHM, however it only stays there for a short amount of time before slowing again for curves. NS is doing alot of work on this section, and it would not surprise me to see a small increase in speeds when they are done. Of course it would also not surprise me to see the speeds stay exactly the same!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Thats it. I have to ask. Why is it 79 rather than 80?

 

[Guest_Yerry_*]

Thats it. I have to ask. Why is it 79 rather than 80?

Clarity. 79 is the maximum speed you're allowed; at 80, when the needle's right on that nifty little line on the Barco speedometer, you're in a heap of trouble.

 

[George Harris]

Here it is from the horse's mouth:

http://frwebgate1.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/w...action=retrieve

[Title 49, Volume 4]

[Revised as of October 1, 2002]

From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access

[CITE: 49CFR236]

[Page 485-521]

TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER II--FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

PART 236--RULES, STANDARDS, AND INSTRUCTIONS GOVERNING THE INSTALLATION, INSPECTION, MAINTENANCE, AND REPAIR OF SIGNAL AND TRAIN CONTROL SYSTEMS, DEVICES, AND APPLIANCES

Sec. 236.0 Applicability, minimum requirements, and civil penalties.

( a ) Except as provided in paragraph ( b ) of this section, this part applies to railroads that operate on standard gage track which is part of the general railroad system of transportation.

( b ) This part does not apply to rail rapid transit operations conducted over track that is used exclusively for that purpose and that is not part of the general system of railroad transportation.

( c ) Where a passenger train is operated at a speed of 60 or more miles per hour, or a freight train is operated at a speed of 50 or more miles per hour, a block signal system complying with the provisions of this part shall be installed or a manual block system shall be placed permanently in effect which shall conform to the following conditions:

(1) A passenger train shall not be admitted to a block occupied by another train except under flag protection;

(2) No train shall be admitted to a block occupied by a passenger train except under flag protection;

(3) No train shall be admitted to a block occupied by an opposing train except under flag protection; and

(4) A freight train, including a work train, may be authorized to follow a freight train, including a work train, into a block but the following train must proceed prepared to stop within one-half the range of vision but not exceeding 20 miles per hour.

( d ) Where any train is operated at a speed of 80 or more miles per hour, an automatic cab signal, automatic train stop or automatic train control system complying with the provisions of this part shall be installed.

( e ) Nothing in this section authorizes the discontinuance of a block signal system, interlocking, traffic control system, automatic train stop, train control, or cab signal system without approval of the Federal Railroad Administration.

Note item ( d ): The statement is "80 mph or more" Therefore, you cannot have a speed limit of 80 mph without an expensive set of extra lights, bells, and whistles. A lot of railroads traditionally had passenger train speed limits of 70 mph, 75 mph, and 80 mph. Since the track safety standards have no intermendiate break for passenger train speed limits between 60 mph and 80 mph, anybody wanting to run something faster than 60 mph had to maintain the tracks to pass the 80 mph standard. Well, you can't set a speed limit of 80 mph without a lot of extra signal hardware that few railroads with signals used. Hence, all the 79 mph stuff out there.

Go back up to item ( c ), and you will see why there is also a lot of 59P/49F territory out there. Don't know what the percentage is now since so many lightly trafficed lines have been abandoned in the last few years, but at least fairly recently only about 1/3 of the American railroad system route milage had any form of signals at all. Therefore, the maximum speed you could have would be 59 mph for passenger trains and 49 mph for freight trains. There are still some passenger trains on non-signaled tracks. The Vermonter north of White River Junction is one. If it should ever come back the Sunset Limited eastern part between Flomaton Alabama and Tallahassee Florida was another.

Some railroads were a little more conservative. For example: Kansas City Southern set their passenger trains speeds at 78 mph after the rule came into effect. The GM&O southern lines dropped their speed limit from 60 mph to 55 mph. That they were running on 90 lb/yd jointed rail may have also had something to do with it. But then, maybe not. At least up until the late 40's early 50's, the Twin Star Rocket and Sam Houston Zephyr were allowed 90 mph between Waxahatchie Texas and Houston on unsignaled track with 90 lb/yd jointed rail. I had heard once that the ride quality on this line was somewhat exciting.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

So in actuality, the maximum speed is not 79 but 79.9999(repeating)?

 

[amtrakwolverine]

So in actuality, the maximum speed is not 79 but 79.9999(repeating)?

technically they could go 80MPH whats 1MPH faster going to do

 

[AlanB]

So in actuality, the maximum speed is not 79 but 79.9999(repeating)?

Yes. But since the engine's aren't calibrated to that level, the engineer just tries to hit 79.

 

[AlanB]

So in actuality, the maximum speed is not 79 but 79.9999(repeating)?

technically they could go 80MPH whats 1MPH faster going to do

Nothing much in terms of a collison. But it could get the engineer's license suspended or revoked. I can't imagine that there are too many people out there that would want to risk their livelyhood.

 

[TVRM610]

So in actuality, the maximum speed is not 79 but 79.9999(repeating)?

technically they could go 80MPH whats 1MPH faster going to do

Nothing much in terms of a collison. But it could get the engineer's license suspended or revoked. I can't imagine that there are too many people out there that would want to risk their livelyhood.

Well there is obviously some wiggle room... most of us have heard hot box detectors read out 80 or 81 before.

 

[AlanB]

So in actuality, the maximum speed is not 79 but 79.9999(repeating)?

technically they could go 80MPH whats 1MPH faster going to do

Nothing much in terms of a collison. But it could get the engineer's license suspended or revoked. I can't imagine that there are too many people out there that would want to risk their livelyhood.

Well there is obviously some wiggle room... most of us have heard hot box detectors read out 80 or 81 before.

Well first, as George pointed out before, those detectors are probably not calibrated properly at all times. Heck, some of them can't even properly count the number of axels on a train. I've taken trips where I've heard 3 or 4 different readouts on how many axels my train had. My favorite's are the one where you end up with an odd amount of axels. :blink: :unsure:

But that said, yes, I'm sure that there is a little bit of wiggle room. Like a train going down a hill. However, if someone noted the train consistantly going 80 for miles on end over flat ground, that engineer could be in trouble. If he was only over for 30 or 40 seconds, he's probably not going to have a problem. Or if the ground levels are changing, again he'd be cut some slack I expect. But if he's clearly and consistantly violating the rule, he's probably in trouble if he/she get's caught.

 

[George Harris]

So in actuality, the maximum speed is not 79 but 79.9999(repeating)?

technically they could go 80MPH whats 1MPH faster going to do

No, for the same reason that the 12 hour law has crews bringing thier train to a stop no later than 11:59 after going on duty. The FRA has no more sense of humor on these things than the Homeland Security inspectors at airports. One ex-ICRR man I used to know said that they were told that 79 mph meant 79.5, but not 79.6. The speed on the defect detector is not usually regarded as determining the real speed, but the FRA inspector's or Trainmaster's (if he has one) radar gun is.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Do they have the same show-us-doing-something attitude as the FAA seems to with this new AA nonsense?

 

[Rail Freak]

So in actuality, the maximum speed is not 79 but 79.9999(repeating)?

technically they could go 80MPH whats 1MPH faster going to do

Nothing much in terms of a collison. But it could get the engineer's license suspended or revoked. I can't imagine that there are too many people out there that would want to risk their livelyhood.

Well there is obviously some wiggle room... most of us have heard hot box detectors read out 80 or 81 before.

HOTBOX???

 

[MrFSS]

So in actuality, the maximum speed is not 79 but 79.9999(repeating)?

technically they could go 80MPH whats 1MPH faster going to do

Nothing much in terms of a collison. But it could get the engineer's license suspended or revoked. I can't imagine that there are too many people out there that would want to risk their livelyhood.

Well there is obviously some wiggle room... most of us have heard hot box detectors read out 80 or 81 before.

HOTBOX???

See this LINK.

 

[jackal]

HOTBOX???

See this LINK.

Rail Freak, for your benefit (and for the benefit of anyone else wondering about all the terminology used around here), here's a link to a 115-page glossary of railroad terms that helped me when I was studying and training to become a brakeman:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/trainmedia/rulebooks/rrterms.pdf

Hope it helps!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

They should put slang terms into a book, too.