New Refund Policy, Effective March 1st, 2014

[me_little_me]

It sure would be nice if Amtrak had a nice table that showed refund/evoucher policies more clearly say with the

columns being

[15 Days before]................[24 Hours before].......................[before Scheduled Departure]

And the rows being

[sleeper]

[Acela FC and non-Acela business class]

[Acele BC and Reserved Coach]

[Advance Purchase Fare]

and the contents listing all that apply for each cell: "Fully Refundable", "Difference refundable if changed to book lower fare", "100% evoucher","Difference in evoucher if changed to book lower fare", "no-refund", "Refundable if train is over x hours late".

It is still not clear if, under the new policy, in lieu of a 10% penalty within 24 hours if 100% evoucher applies.

 

[BCL]

One can't have reservations that aren't possible (e.g. WAS-NYP on regionals that leave at 3PM and 4PM).

Seems like the opposite of car rental reservations. Typical reservations don't require prepayment or even any kind of credit card as a deposit. I've had three identifcal reservations (at different prices) open at the same time on Priceline, and all were considered active until I cancelled all but the least expensive one.

A lot of people just keep on checking for better rates given how easy it is to cancel (or just not show up).

 

[saxman]

So it's saying if you are a no-show, you lose your money. If you cancel within 24 hours of departure, and on a saver ticket, you can only get a refund minus 10%. But can you still get the full amount in the form of a voucher, if you cancel within that 24 hours? That doesn't seem to be clear anywhere. I'm assuming the answer is yes.

 

[boston mike]

There should be some accommodation for someone who simply misses a train for reasons outside their control. It could be traffic issues, car issues, a broken-down commuter train, whatever. Within some reasonable timeframe after the scheduled departure, Amtrak should permit someone showing up to be re-accommodated on an available train. Most airlines have this policy (the "flat tire" rule). If Amtrak does not, they should.

What airline does that?? I can assure you none do, maybe years ago they did, but for this to work today the ticket agents in the terminal need to have the freedom to make a decision about waiving a fee and they do not have that freedom. With kiosk based check in you would be trying to argue with an ATM machine.

Example: I arrived at Logan Airport in Boston at 8:35 for a 9:00 am flight. I had missed the check in cut off for my 9:00 am flight by five minutes. Was delayed due to traffic as a tunnel was closed - the agents know that as they all live in Boston too but they cannot do anything to make up for it. Solution, I pay the $50 fee to be put on standby for the 10:00 flight so I could get a boarding pass to go through security with, went through security, and boarded the 9:00 anyway as it hadn't left yet.

There isn't a flat tire rule, I am certain of that.

Mike

US Airways, for one, applies a "flat tire rule." I had it applied last year when an incredibly stupid mistake on my part resulted in a missed flight.

In 2008 this was obsolete: http://www.airfarewatchdog.com/blog/3801610/the-flat-tire-rule-remnant-or-rescue/

and even 2007: http://elliott.org/blog/flat-tire-rule-goes-flat/

I'll concede you USAir though (at least in 2012): http://blog.sky-tours.com/2012/01/the-airlines-flat-tire-rule-or-2-hour-rule-may-safe-you-money.html

I wouldn't bank on it though.

Mike

 

[boston-mike]

One can't have reservations that aren't possible (e.g. WAS-NYP on regionals that leave at 3PM and 4PM).

Hmm, I just did it on Amtrak.com. It didn't have an issue. Booked regionals about three hours apart.

Curious how you think it blocks overlapping trips.

Mike

 

[SarahZ]

One can't have reservations that aren't possible (e.g. WAS-NYP on regionals that leave at 3PM and 4PM).

Hmm, I just did it on Amtrak.com. It didn't have an issue. Booked regionals about three hours apart.

Curious how you think it blocks overlapping trips.

Mike

He didn't say it blocked it. He said, and I quote, "Duplicate reservations are already prohibited and automatically canceled when the computer finds them."

There is probably an internal process that runs every X hours to check for these, so while you are able to make the reservations now, you may not be able to keep those reservations once, as Ryan said, the computer finds them.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Well, I have read here on AU there are ways to book two "impossible" trips, but I won't reveal that as I think it's unfair for others who may want to book on those trains (1) seat availability, 2) bucket going up because of sales).

 

[boston mike]

One can't have reservations that aren't possible (e.g. WAS-NYP on regionals that leave at 3PM and 4PM).

Hmm, I just did it on Amtrak.com. It didn't have an issue. Booked regionals about three hours apart.

Curious how you think it blocks overlapping trips.

Mike

He didn't say it blocked it. He said, and I quote, "Duplicate reservations are already prohibited and automatically canceled when the computer finds them."

There is probably an internal process that runs every X hours to check for these, so while you are able to make the reservations now, you may not be able to keep those reservations once, as Ryan said, the computer finds them.

I understand what he wrote. The reality is NEC riders do it all the time.

I am not convinced Amtrak has the back office computing power to identify overlapping reservations and unilaterally cancel one or all. In a forum where we hear about broken reading lights I am sure we would have heard by now if Amtrak was cancelling duplicate reservations.

Easy enough to try an experiment...book some overlapping travel for, say, February and see what happens.

 

[saxman]

I've probably made a couple of duplicate reservations in the past and never had anything cancelled. This is just my observation, but I haven't made that many either.

 

[SarahZ]

I made a duplicate (in error) once, and it was caught (thankfully). I'm not sure how. I just figured they had some back-end computer process going on to catch them. Not so much to discipline customers, but to help them (like in my case).

I guess it's just one of those YMMV things. :hi:

 

[Ryan]

It's definitely a YMMV type thing. People here have had their trips canceled because of it.

Again, just because it doesn't happen to you, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Anecdotes are not data.

Edit:

The rule in action. http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/30352-yikes-amtrak-can-cancel-reservations-without-notice/

Edit2:

That thread (from 2009) mentions that the policy doesn't seam to be documented. This thread from a year ago suggests that this has been a published policy since at least 2012. http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/53664-new-national-time-tables-effective-11413/page-2

 

[CHamilton]

From The Hill:

Amtrak ending no-show refunds

 

[Nathanael]

Never buy anything but the "flexible" fare, unless you're already there at the station ready to go. I guess it's just that simple.

My family only buys fully-refundable airline tickets, never anything less-refundable.

 

[fairviewroad]

Never buy anything but the "flexible" fare, unless you're already there at the station ready to go. I guess it's just that simple.

My family only buys fully-refundable airline tickets, never anything less-refundable.

Thanks for subsidizing travel for the rest of us, but the reality is that the price difference between refundable and non-refundable tickets (particularly in the case of airlines) put those tickets out of reach of many folks. Of course I'd buy a refundable ticket if it cost the same or was just a few dollars more. But to spend hundreds of dollars more, no thanks. That effectively amounts to a very expensive (by value) insurance policy.

That said, I have no strong feelings one way or another about this new policy. I'd hope that station or phone agents have some flexibility to implement an ad hoc flat tire rule, though.

 

[Guest]

Having spent a career in the airline industry, I am all too familiar with no shows. Most people don't realize or care that once a departure leaves with empty space/unfilled seats, there is a revenue loss. I applaud Amtrak's new policies and for what it is

worth, in my opinion I see all airlines becoming tougher with no show travelers and making policy changes on refunds.

In a few years all airlines will have a tougher no show policy and such will be adapted by all transport modes.

There must be an acceptable flat tire policy however, that takes people's emergency situations into account.

Go Amtrak!

 

[Barciur]

Just to clarify - nothing changes with the Keystones, they're still good for one year and don't lose value, correct?

So it's saying if you are a no-show, you lose your money. If you cancel within 24 hours of departure, and on a saver ticket, you can only get a refund minus 10%. But can you still get the full amount in the form of a voucher, if you cancel within that 24 hours? That doesn't seem to be clear anywhere. I'm assuming the answer is yes.

On a saver ticket there is no refunds at all I think?

 

[PRR 60]

The policy does not apply to unreserved services like the Keystones. Tickets are good for one year.

Saver tickets for unreserved service are refundable subject to a 10% fee.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Having spent a career in the airline industry, I am all too familiar with no shows. Most people don't realize or care that once a departure leaves with empty space/unfilled seats, there is a revenue loss.

This is not always the case. Sometimes there's a revenue loss. Sometimes it's revenue neutral. And sometimes the airlines come out ahead by selling the same seat twice or adding hundreds of dollars in change fees.

I applaud Amtrak's new policies and for what it is worth, in my opinion I see all airlines becoming tougher with no show travelers and making policy changes on refunds. In a few years all airlines will have a tougher no show policy and such will be adapted by all transport modes. There must be an acceptable flat tire policy however, that takes people's emergency situations into account.

So you're applauding a policy that appears to exclude your must-have exemption? Color me confused.

 

[AmtrakLKL]

I'm hearing refund policy changes are coming, probably next month. Higher penalties and increased time before departure to cancel without penalty. I'll update when details are available.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I'm hearing refund policy changes are coming, probably next month. Higher penalties and increased time before departure to cancel without penalty. I'll update when details are available.

It doesn't seem that bad.