National Weather Service 2010 Flood Forecast

[Ispolkom]

Of course it's possible that any of the alternate routes might also be closed by flooding. The Twin Cities and Western route, for instance, runs through Montevideo and Granite Falls both of which are under threat of flooding by the Minnesota River. For that matter, the BNSF (and CP) main lines run next to the Mississippi River in St. Paul, and there's 60% chance of the road next to the tracks flooding.

Other than using the Surrey cutoff (which the pre-Amtrak Empire Builder always used), I doubt that Amtrak will reroute this train because of flooding. I don't think that they ever have. I'll bet that they will run through Fargo until it's impossible, then either cancel the train or use a bus bridge between Minot, say, and St. Paul.

 

[AlanB]

As to some(one) having to supply a "pilot" for another route..what is with that? Are you saying that these "drivers" aren't familiar with running a locomotive or obeying signals?

It's not that easy - you need to be familiar with the territory and qualified to operate on it (which obviously Amtrak crews wouldn't be).

Correct. Both the conductor and the engineer normally must be able to look out the window at any given moment and know precisely where they are along that line. This requires taking multiple runs up and down said line to accomplish. Since the crews would not normally be operating on one of those alternative lines, they would not be able to do this. They would not know where to expect each signal, not know where sidings that they might have to pull into are located, would not know the speed limits along the way, and so on.

So a pilot, or an engineer who is "qualified" on that section of track must ride in the engine to assist and ensure that the Amtrak engineer complies with all speed restrictions and the safe operation of the train.

 

[Jason Trosvig]

I would suggest the EB be routed along CPs ( Canadian Pacific) line from Chicago to Minot with a station stop in Valley City and Carrington. That's my alternative.

 

[anir dendroica]

I would suggest the EB be routed along CPs ( Canadian Pacific) line from Chicago to Minot with a station stop in Valley City and Carrington. That's my alternative.

That line crosses the Red River too. Is the bridge higher/less prone to flooding than the BNSF (Surrey line) bridge? If I recall in past years flooding has forced a reroute onto the Surrey line, which results in missing three stations but otherwise keeps the train on time. The river threatened to close this route as well but stopped just short (if I remember correctly).

 

[Ispolkom]

I would suggest the EB be routed along CPs ( Canadian Pacific) line from Chicago to Minot with a station stop in Valley City and Carrington. That's my alternative.

That line crosses the Red River too. Is the bridge higher/less prone to flooding than the BNSF (Surrey line) bridge? If I recall in past years flooding has forced a reroute onto the Surrey line, which results in missing three stations but otherwise keeps the train on time. The river threatened to close this route as well but stopped just short (if I remember correctly).

I don't think that the CP line would have any advantages over the Surrey cut-off. This article suggests that the line is very slow. I imagine that this spring will be like several other wet ones. If the Red River rises high enough the Empire Builder will be routed over the Surrey cut-off. If it rises high enough to close the BNSF bridge (which, to give the original builders credit, is about as high up as Fargo gets), the Empire Builder will be either canceled or truncated with a bus bridge. And it won't be possible for months to guess how bad the flooding will be (much less where the worst would be), since it all depends on how fast the snowpack melts.

Not that the Empire Builder needs any more woes. Mrs. Ispolkom saw the eastbound train pass through downtown St. Paul 20 minutes ago, more than 8 hours late.

 

[mwmnp]

I would suggest the EB be routed along CPs ( Canadian Pacific) line from Chicago to Minot with a station stop in Valley City and Carrington. That's my alternative.

That line crosses the Red River too. Is the bridge higher/less prone to flooding than the BNSF (Surrey line) bridge?

Actually, to be technical, the CP line crosses the Bois de Sioux River, which merges with the Otter Tail River to form the Red River about 15 miles to the north. Being a tributary and close to the continental divide that enables some water in the region to flow to the south, flooding along the CP tracks here is usually not an issue. What can be more of a problem are some areas around the Sheyenne and James Rivers in east-central North Dakota. The CP had to shut down the line during the historic flooding of 2009 because of water over the tracks near Kensal. With the alternate CP line between Winnipeg and Glenwood, MN also under water and the BNSF Surrey Cutoff in danger of going under, CP was forced to do some unique rerouting during this time.

All in all, the CP line is quite ill-suited for passenger traffic. As indicated by the Trains article, the line has no signals, so the best speed a passenger train could do is 59 mph. In addition, all switches have to be aligned by hand, and meets are very common as the tracks, being the CP's primary route into the United States, are busier now than at any other point in history. That the line was built for a lower amount of traffic is also exemplified by the relatively long distances between sidings. Generally there is one siding every 20 miles on the CP, as opposed to one about every 10 miles on the BNSF Surrey Cutoff.

 

[Jason Trosvig]

Actually the CP Line rises to 60 mph east of Glenwood vs 49 mph west of it. The branch line north of Glenwood is signed for 40 mph for most of it. It sees about a few trains per week but no passenger with the exception of the holiday train for a few decades. I did seen a CP unit train bound for Minneapolis just not to long ago on the BNSF line near Detroit Lakes. It was the first time I have saw that.

 

[Jason Trosvig]

Oh, to answer your question on the Fergus Falls to ST. Cloud Line was abandoned in 1992. What seems strange on this abandonment is that this route was still a high quality 40 mph line that the Ottertail Valley could have used to reach potential customers in ST. Cloud area and that BNSF could have used as a detour if something like a car derailment happens on it's main line north. Usually Abandonments happen if the line is so worn out that fixing them is uneconomical.