More Greyhound cutbacks and comparison with airlines

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Why don't other cities have transportation centers like that?
Historically stations were built by competing modes of transport and located where it was most convenient for them, e.g. next to tracks, etc. Now they are seen as complementary by forward-thinking cities, who try to combine the facilities when possible and spending public money. Toronto has done this by moving the once busy bus terminal into Union Station with the trains and other transit of all types. However, the recent AU discussion regarding Salt Lake City highlighted where this is not always the most practical or expedient solution.
 
More on Edwards…
Prior to their purchase by Continental Trailways in 1969, they were a medium sized family run regional carrier, with some rather long routes, stretching from New York and Philadelphia, to Buffalo, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland, via a series of local highways, serving numerous cities and towns. They mostly served as a “feeder line” to Greyhound.
They did act as a “bridge line”, combining with Greyhound, between Elmira and Sunbury, to offer the shortest through route between Buffalo and Washington.
They, as well as all other pool partners with Greyhound, had to meet strict Greyhound standards back then, including type of equipment, ticketing, and driver training. While Edwards “home” livery was red and silver and white, the buses they placed in the Greyhound pool had to be blue and silver and white.

The reason Continental purchased Edwards, was because Edwards local routes paralleled most of the new Interstate 80, nicknamed the “Keystone Shortway” across Pennsylvania, and Continental assumed they would easily get rights to operate express trips over it, only making limited stops (initially Williamsport and Dubois, later adding Hazleton. This would give them a competitive advantage over Greyhound on the New York / Cleveland route, as it’s much shorter than the NJ/PA Turnpike route, as well as toll-free. It ended up backfiring on them, because when the road opened, Greyhound successfully filed for, and was awarded nonstop “closed door” rights as an operating convenience. And Edwards was stuck making its aforementioned stops, although they could have added nonstops, but there was not enough traffic for them to sustain that since Greyhound dominated the Great Lakes region.

Edwards acquired its first Eagles just prior to the purchase. I don’t know if they chose those because they were the only 40 footers on the market for another year, or perhaps Continental made some sort of “deal” with them as a prelude to the purchase.

As mentioned earlier, Greyhound required pool partners to match their equipment and standards. So Edwards continued using their GM coaches on the Greyhound pool run.
One day, someone in Williamsport decided to cut the Edwards GM in Williamsport on the northbound afternoon run, and put in one of their Eagles. When it reached Elmira, the Buffalo Greyhound driver looked at in in disbelief, and refused it. Greyhound requires their drivers to be trained and qualified in different types of equipment, which he wasn’t. He called his dispatcher, who told him to instead take the Greyhound connecting bus which originated in Philadelphia and Scranton, and normally laid over in Elmira. Greyhound also at that time required power steering, which the Eagles only offered as an option, and these didn’t have that.
Later on, Greyhound and Edwards worked out the problem, and Greyhound drivers drove them.
 
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You should write a book on this. I enjoy reading all about it
Thanks!
I have spent my life in various passenger transportation occupations...since 1968 in bus, rail, and air. I have lots of interesting experiences, but I do not have the skills nor ambition to commit to writing a comprehensive account of it. I just like to relate what may be relevant here, and some other transport forums...
 
Reason Foundation came up with a rebuttal article, calling nationalization of Greyhound and those who want it as "socialists" and are opposed to the free market. They are oblivious to the fact that competing airports, air traffic control, and Ike's highways are themselves socialistic enerprises.

It is incompetence, not free markets, that causes Greyhound's ongoing demise.
 
The author acts like building dedicated bus lanes could be done with the wave of a magic wand. The expense would be astronomical.
The only parts of the country where you need dedicated bus lanes are in the approaches to the big cities. By the way, this was done years ago. I once took a Trailways bus to New York in 1971, and they reserved a lane on the approach to the Lincoln Tunnel for buses. It wasn't just the intercity buses, it was the commuter buses, too. There's really no need to have a dedicated bus on, say, I-80 running through Nebraska.
 
Nationalize Greyhound? What are we going to call it? AmHound?

I agree it's total mismanagement that has led to their demise. Screwed up labor negotiations back in the day too. Heck does Greyhound employees even have union representation anymore?

Then there is the long standing image problem. Who wants to get on a bus with passengers who use trash bags for suitcases? Who wants to sit next to someone who doesn't care or know better to practice some form of first world hygiene? Who wants to ride a bus with someone who gets an attitude at everything and thinks the man is out to get them at every turn in life, all because you said something nice to them, like hello?

The other day I mentioned that Flix still uses curbside here in Charlotte instead of the Greyhound terminal. The people riding Flix seem to be be normal functioning members of society. Over at the dog house, not so much. Maybe it's intentional on Flix's part to keep it separate. So as not to run off the customers they want. Just a thought.

There is a saying in business,,,,,,,, Not everyone needs to be your customer. Oh I would love to be a fly on the wall, in a Flix meeting room to hear what they have to say about the overall operation, now that they've owned it for a few years.

Greyhound needs some leadership with balls. Someone who is not the least afraid to send a bad employee packing. Someone who is not afraid to be real clear on the type of customers they want. Someone to set up a robust national network, that does not need to include every podunk town like the old days. Just the major cities and a maybe a few large towns in between. No way off the interstate stuff, let local regionals do that if they wish. And someone who understands marketing/media.

So who wants to join me in running a bus company? LOL.
 
Dumping the Local routes is what started Greyhound's demise 40 years ago. About turning Greyhound into de facto Flixbus, no small towns etc - do note that curbside operations like Flixbus, Ourbus, Megabus might as well have their maps drawn in pencil. They are here today, gone tomorrow.

I have ridden crowded Greyhound routes and frequencies over the last 45 years, local and interstate. Few of them exist today, were often gone several years hence. They like to run their business off for a fast buck and move on. Teets started it.
 
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As I mentioned above, I have been in the business since 1968, and used to love it. That said, I would never consider investing into it nowadays. One of AU's members has, and I'll leave it to him to relate his experience, if he happens to see this, and chooses to....

There are still decent bus companies around: Adirondack/Pine Hill/NY Trailways, Indian Trails, Jefferson Lines.
 
Curbside boarding imposes costs on the city where it's happening in terms of blocking traffic, taking up parking spaces, etc. Lack of restroom facilities and waiting area also results in loitering, blocking sidewalks, possible public urination, etc., which is also a cost on the city. This is in addition to the fact that lack of terminal facilities degrade the experience of riding an intercity bus. I think it would be perfectly justified for cities and towns to ban curbside loading and require minimal terminal facilities. Curbside drop off may be OK in rural areas with few passengers, and no local transit, but I would think that larger towns and cities need to have a bus station with at least a waiting room, restroom, TVM, and some sort of agent for the bus company.
 
Curbside boarding imposes costs on the city where it's happening in terms of blocking traffic, taking up parking spaces, etc. Lack of restroom facilities and waiting area also results in loitering, blocking sidewalks, possible public urination, etc., which is also a cost on the city. This is in addition to the fact that lack of terminal facilities degrade the experience of riding an intercity bus. I think it would be perfectly justified for cities and towns to ban curbside loading and require minimal terminal facilities. Curbside drop off may be OK in rural areas with few passengers, and no local transit, but I would think that larger towns and cities need to have a bus station with at least a waiting room, restroom, TVM, and some sort of agent for the bus company.
It's a reasonable trade-off for providing intercity bus service, but the whole arrangement is so murky, as opposed to a clear subsidy and clear rules. The bus companies are in pretty unregulated competition with each other, and apparently building bus stations is too expensive to keep fares competitive with other means. I think in Chicago the city is imposing rules?

In any case, the Flix lot next to NYP seems ok, on the southeast corner of 8th and 31st. Tempted to say it's better than the Port Authority Bus Terminal, but I haven't been there in decades. Its mass of commuters would experience PABT differently than travelers, and it certainly couldn't be accommodated on a street corner. I take it that "GW Bridge", a curbside on the Manhattan side, is a common intercity stop now, bypassing PABT or other locations.

At WAS, the bus terminal is now inside the parking garage. The old GH station north of WAS was practically a no-go zone in the 1980s. The station in Baltimore was notorious enough that the driver always told passengers not to get out during the layover. The area of Washington where the station used to be is now a mega development for scores of blocks. It's quite a sight. North of H Street.

I'd like to mention that Greyhound passengers may not be as bad as depicted in a post above - Miles in Transit only complains about the comically bad service of GH, not about the passengers. Maybe he's being polite. People have been traveling with hefty bags for luggage since hefty bags were invented. For the actual behaviors, it was easier in the old days, for a solo male passenger anyway, just to say, oh a drunk. Now things are less predictable. Brightline and airlines have security screening.

On one memorable Trailways trip when I was a teenager I met a bunch of students from the School for the Deaf in Staunton, VA. As I recall it, and maybe I am mistaken, they were traveling without a teacher or chaperone. Different days.
 
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My experience on Adirondack Trailways last summer between Albany and Montreal was just old fashioned, friendly professionalism and punctuality, very reminsicent of the 1960's when I took a few trips with my parents to Oneonta on the B&C Eagles. It is good code sharing arrangment with Greyhound ended and they did not get their foot caught around Greyhound's achor.

They only buy Pevosts now and they are lettered simply Trailways and are all pooled and used interchangably among the 3 companies. Only the 3 companies are there as certificate lettering. That is so if one has a catastrophe and gets sewed, they don't all go down with it.

If only they would produce public timetables to see the entire picture. They are short changing themselves. Arriving Albany, the driver was rattling off times for connections to many places in Pennsylvania and upstate NY.
 
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Someone to set up a robust national network, that does not need to include every podunk town like the old days. Just the major cities and a maybe a few large towns in between. No way off the interstate stuff, let local regionals do that if they wish.
The problem is that, in much of the country, the local regionals don't exist anymore, and if they do some don't integrate nicely with the nationwide bus/rail network. Plus, Greyhound isn't really serving most of those small towns anymore anyways, especially over the past few years as they've made their network much smaller.

If Greyhound is to be nationalized, or we are to create some sort of nationalized public intercity bus system, that system should serve many smaller towns/cities in America. It's not going to serve every town of 50 people, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to see most towns of even 5,000+ population served by at least one intercity bus a day (in both directions,) connecting the towns to nearby hubs to reach a wider network. It'll cost some money, sure, but I'd be surprised if it even cost the ~$400m/year we pay now in essential air service subsidies. The hubs can still be connected by express services, and ideally there'd be a unified platform so that you can transfer between bus companies with guaranteed connections throughout.
 
The entire industry has been in decline since WWII, with occasional upturns. When Congress got fed up with FedEx and UPS lobbying against each other, they deregulated "motor carriers" overall, thereby legalizing the curbside carriers. It's not a coincidence that Greyhound built solid terminals in the late 1930's within a year or two after the federal Motor Carrier Act passed -- that only works at the bank if you have some certainty of making money.

The problem that developed in the regulatory era is that with the whole industry declining, regulation lost its effectiveness. Laid on top of that, management thrashed around trying to find a new formula. The most obvious way was to reduce labor costs. That could be done by speeding up service or by union-busting.

The 1937 Portland Union Bus Station in 1977, drive-through copied from some interurban stations.
PDXGLdepotNov77.jpg
 
If people really want a robust network of intercity buses, I think the existing Trailways Transportation System is what everyone should be looking at. Greyhound was always a centralized organization, so I don't see them going in that direction, its just not Greyhound's style.

The independent companies that made up the Trailways system (back in the day it was called the National Trailways Bus System), were formidable competitors against Greyhound. As everyone knows, Greyhound did buy Trailways, but they only bought the largest company of the system, Continental Trailways, not the entire network.

Just a couple months ago, they've partnered up with a well known bus company called Indian Trails as seen here.

https://buslinemag.com/news-headlines/trailways-announces-new-partnership-with-indian-trails/
 
The entire industry has been in decline since WWII, with occasional upturns. When Congress got fed up with FedEx and UPS lobbying against each other, they deregulated "motor carriers" overall, thereby legalizing the curbside carriers. It's not a coincidence that Greyhound built solid terminals in the late 1930's within a year or two after the federal Motor Carrier Act passed -- that only works at the bank if you have some certainty of making money.

The problem that developed in the regulatory era is that with the whole industry declining, regulation lost its effectiveness. Laid on top of that, management thrashed around trying to find a new formula. The most obvious way was to reduce labor costs. That could be done by speeding up service or by union-busting.

The 1937 Portland Union Bus Station in 1977, drive-through copied from some interurban stations.
View attachment 35189
i was never a fan of the 'lane style' loading in some depot's, more so in the West. I much prefer the 'sawtooth' style loading platforms, prevalent in the East.
 
If people really want a robust network of intercity buses, I think the existing Trailways Transportation System is what everyone should be looking at. Greyhound was always a centralized organization, so I don't see them going in that direction, its just not Greyhound's style.

The independent companies that made up the Trailways system (back in the day it was called the National Trailways Bus System), were formidable competitors against Greyhound. As everyone knows, Greyhound did buy Trailways, but they only bought the largest company of the system, Continental Trailways, not the entire network.

Just a couple months ago, they've partnered up with a well known bus company called Indian Trails as seen here.

https://buslinemag.com/news-headlines/trailways-announces-new-partnership-with-indian-trails/
If Alex Berardi, the president of the Trailways association is serious about expanding, he should begin with his own family's NYT, and expand it from Buffalo to Detroit via Cleveland and Toledo... not just roundabout via Toronto....

The Trailways association is up against the remnants of the Greyhound system, which while severely truncated, still extends coast to coast, and border to border. In addition to its owner, Flixbus, and several independents that remain embedded in the Greyhound/Flix ticketing platform.
 
There are still decent bus companies around: Adirondack/Pine Hill/NY Trailways, Indian Trails, Jefferson Lines.
We also have a fairly decent network of local bus companies in New England - Concord Coach, C&J, Peter Pan, Plymouth & Brockton, mostly centered around Boston's bus terminal located above South Station, or Logan Airport.
 
Martz, is another good one. They were a founding member of the National Trailways Bus System in the 1930's, with bus and airlines extending from New York to Chicago (they sold their airline to AA after a couple of years), but currently only run line service from their base in Wilkes Barre and Scranton to New York and Philadelphia. They do have charter bases in MD and FL, but no line runs other than contract operations. Similar to Academy, which has bases from MA to FL, but only runs line runs in NJ to NYC, a few NEC trips to MA and VA, but otherwise charters and contract operations.
 
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