More Dining Car changes coming soon?

[jebr]

Everyone who has actually tried them seems to think the quality is the same or better as before. It's the lack of options that is the complaint... Which I agree with.

Agreed. It shouldn't be difficult to offer a fairly wide variety of entrees if Amtrak would actually implement pre-ordering for entrees. It also shouldn't be difficult as long as it's not required to be part of ARROW, and instead simply pull basic reservation information from ARROW. There may have to be a limitation that pre-ordering is only available online (if it can't be integrated into the call handling procedure/system) but it should be somewhat easily doable for Amtrak to create a site/database for this that uses the same information that's provided today to look up a reservation online to pull reservation information, populate it into a database that allows selection for entrees for likely meal times for everyone in the party, and have that information sent over to be stocked on the train. For cancellations, it could simply do a sweep of all reservations with pre-selected entrees after the close of the pre-order window (probably 3-5 days in advance) and clear out any orders tied to now-cancelled reservations. Those who haven't pre-selected would have something similar to the current menu loaded on for them to choose from, with maybe an entree or two available from any cancellations within the final 3-5 days before departure (whenever the final sweep is done.)

I'd be surprised if there's full-wait-staff dining cars on most routes 3 years from now; the labor costs are simply too high for what's perceived as a limited value-add for most customers. A meal served in a box, or perhaps served in their accommodation plated similar to an Acela First meal, in and of itself won't steer away too many passengers. What will steer away passengers is if the options available aren't tasty, relatively fresh, and at least allow for a healthy option if desired. I'll also admit that I'm in favor of making the in-accommodation option more visible and proactively offered, as there's many times that while I'm okay with eating in the diner, I'd much rater stay in my roomette and enjoy the food in that privacy.

 

[Dakota 400]

Regarding the previous post of jebr with the comment making the option of dining within one's accommodation more available and proactively offered, I disagree.

Choosing Amtrak for a journey offers a much different experience than choosing to fly or drive to one's destination. Amtrak offers a more relaxing and scenic for the traveler experience than either driving or flying. It also allows for a social interaction that I have found much more pleasant and unexpected than flying.

"Dinner in the Dining Car" is more than just having "dinner". I have met many interesting people on my Amtrak trips while sharing a Dining Car table. Listening to the experiences of an oil field worker returning to his job in North Dakota while we dined on the Empire Builder gave me a view I never would have had of those who work in that industry.

 

[Maverickstation]

Aside from the issue of which train will be next to receive the downgraded food service, the reports we are getting from riders about existing dining cars being short stocked on

certain items, and not stocking certain others is very troubling. It's death by a thousand cuts for the trains with full service diners.

I found some of the comments on the nutritional information of the new food offerings ignorant at best, and pathetic at worst.

To compare the pre made short rib, to the flat iron steak is idiotic.

The Flat Iron Steak gives you the OPTION of the sauce, and you can like me put very little on the baked potato, you then have an entree without a killer

level of sodium.

Like many on a sodium restriction I can not afford to have even one meal with the type of sodium the pre made short rib delivers.

As for which LD train is next, stay tuned.................

Ken

 

[JRR]

Aside from the issue of which train will be next to receive the downgraded food service, the reports we are getting from riders about existing dining cars being short stocked on

certain items, and not stocking certain others is very troubling. It's death by a thousand cuts for the trains with full service diners.

I found some of the comments on the nutritional information of the new food offerings ignorant at best, and pathetic at worst.

To compare the pre made short rib, to the flat iron steak is idiotic.

The Flat Iron Steak gives you the OPTION of the sauce, and you can like me put very little on the baked potato, you then have an entree without a killer

level of sodium.

Like many on a sodium restriction I can not afford to have even one meal with the type of sodium the pre made short rib delivers.

As for which LD train is next, stay tuned.................

Ken

I found the short rib to be very salty.

 

[Seaboard92]

Well those who want to compare food service and see how it ought be done need to ride VIA Rail Canada. I just recently got off the Canadian which runs with not one but two dining cars during the peak season. The staff of our dining car consisted of an LSA in Amtrak language, and two servers, plus three people in the kitchen.

When our train became dismally late and it became evident that the Vancouver crew would have to serve up an additional lunch they were unprepared for did they serve beef stew? Nope they created what they could from what they had so we had an amazing roast beef sandwich made from leftovers from the night before.

Despite having 12 dining car crew members on board you don't see the same level of scrutiny in Canada that you get here. The food is worlds apart and the service is light years ahead.



Canadians Roast Beef dish.



Amtraks Silver Star food.

Now tell me why we must suffer because a congressmen who is out of office has left a legacy. And our executives don't know enough about railroading to know food has always been since the beginning of railroading the loss leader.

 

[Palmetto]

Well those who want to compare food service and see how it ought be done need to ride VIA Rail Canada. I just recently got off the Canadian which runs with not one but two dining cars during the peak season. The staff of our dining car consisted of an LSA in Amtrak language, and two servers, plus three people in the kitchen.

When our train became dismally late and it became evident that the Vancouver crew would have to serve up an additional lunch they were unprepared for did they serve beef stew? Nope they created what they could from what they had so we had an amazing roast beef sandwich made from leftovers from the night before.

Despite having 12 dining car crew members on board you don't see the same level of scrutiny in Canada that you get here. The food is worlds apart and the service is light years ahead.

ImageUploadedByAmtrak Forum1533212184.176591.jpg

Canadians Roast Beef dish.

ImageUploadedByAmtrak Forum1533212207.883720.jpg

Amtraks Silver Star food.

Now tell me why we must suffer because a congressmen who is out of office has left a legacy. And our executives don't know enough about railroading to know food has always been since the beginning of railroading the loss leader.

And our Congress doesn't either. They are the ones that have set this whole process in motion back in 2015, with the 2020 break-even mandate. Tell me: what country in the world breaks even or makes money on passsenger rail?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

VIA currently operates 2 legit long distance trains nation wide. They operate on a 2-3 day a week schedule. You really want Amtrak to follow VIA's model?

I've ridden the Canadian, when I rode the dining car crews were commenting that fresh flowers got cut from the diner (replaced by plastic). I've noticed in recent photos that little jars of jam have been replaced with cheap plastic cups of jam that is found in a Denny's diner.

Naturally the Canadians diner is still better than the full service Amtrak diners. For one the steward stands at a steward desk and doesn't spread out over 2 or 3 tables, that alone increases the class level by 70%.

 

[tricia]

Naturally the Canadians diner is still better than the full service Amtrak diners. For one the steward stands at a steward desk and doesn't spread out over 2 or 3 tables, that alone increases the class level by 70%.

 

[jebr]

VIA curreny operates 2 legit long distance trains nation wide. They operate on a 2-3 day a week schedule. You really want Amtrak to follow VIA's model?

Agreed with this sentiment. The Canadian pretty much operates as a tourist train that happens to have a couple coaches for essential transportation for those that have no other option. (It's also sad that the schedule is so long now that, even on the days it runs, it's slower than taking Amtrak from the same two points, and the Amtrak routes/connections run seven days a week.)

Food service doesn't need to be profitable, but in an era of very limited funding, it does need to do its best to require as little subsidy as possible (so if we increase the cost side of food service, revenue should at minimum balance it out.) If decent boxed meals can keep similar revenue or result in less revenue lost than it saves in cost, then it's probably a decent trade off. I'd much rather have taxpayer subsidy used towards expanding routes/frequency, replacing failed equipment, etc. versus having wait staff serve me food that I'm willing to grab myself and eat.

 

[railiner]

When I rode the VIA Rail train from Montreal to Jonquiere and return, I was very impressed with the food service provided by the "Service Manager" on that little train. They had some of the same hot offerings that first class corridor passengers were provided. All from a tiny galley at the end of a coach. He did not use the galley on the Skyline dome car that was also on the train.

And he "did it all"....was the "conductor", "train attendant", and "LSA", all combined into one. And he even walked thru the train, offering at seat service, both food and beverage, to all. Even up in the dome. As well, as offering complimentary snacks to all throughout the all day trip.

Can only dream about that level of service from one person on Amtrak...

Edit: Lest I forget...he was also the "baggageman" for that train, although sometimes assisted by one of the engineer's, loading and unloading at each stop. Even flag stops...

 

[crescent-zephyr]

When I rode the Canadian I wasn't overly impressed with the staff, they were just ok. Better than Amtraks worst, but not as good as Amtraks best.

Once when walking through a diner, an employee just stopped to take a note or something so I stopped as well thinking he was going to continue walking, when he realized I was behind him he scolded me for not announcing my presence. It was quite odd and reminded me of the Amtrak "customer gets in our way" attitude I encounter.

I also remember dining car crews complaining in front of passengers how little work they get in the winter when via runs fewer trains with only 1 diner each.

Again, the Canadian is a neat train, and I'll ride it again if given the chance, but my experience was not some gold standard by any means. I was much more impressed by the Ed Ellis Pullman cars on the back of the City.

 

[cpotisch]

I just talked to a rep at Amtrak Reservations, who checked with her supervisor, looked at service bulletins, etc, and could not find out any news about this change. Was very sympathetic about the situation, and assured me if they did make the change, they could get a full refund due to change in service. Of course, the next question is that my rail fare to Milwaukee is around $300, and I could fly into ORD for $117 and just round trip my rental car, vs train to MKE, rental to my destination, then drive back ORD to catch a flight home.

Any bets out there how likely there's going to be a change. The thought of subsisting on muffins and coldcuts really does not make me happy. A major part of any train trip is relaxing in the diner and visiting with random travelers. Eating out of a box does not seem very appealing.

Glad to hear that. I’ve still got my fingers crossed, though.

 

[JRR]

My experience on the Canadian was very good. I agree with Seaboard92 that it seems to be essentially a tourist train.

When we boarded in Jasper, we were advised by our car attendant to go to the Dome. We were then served appetizers and champagne. The menus were different everyday and the food excellent. The last night I had a bone in veal chop that any New York restaurant would have been proud to serve.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Did you meet any of the people riding in coach on the Canadian? When I rode I talked to several people in coach and in sleeper class who were Candians traveling from point a to point b for either work, or visiting friends / family.

 

[Skyline]

VIA curreny operates 2 legit long distance trains nation wide. They operate on a 2-3 day a week schedule. You really want Amtrak to follow VIA's model?

Agreed with this sentiment. The Canadian pretty much operates as a tourist train that happens to have a couple coaches for essential transportation for those that have no other option. (It's also sad that the schedule is so long now that, even on the days it runs, it's slower than taking Amtrak from the same two points, and the Amtrak routes/connections run seven days a week.)

Food service doesn't need to be profitable, but in an era of very limited funding, it does need to do its best to require as little subsidy as possible (so if we increase the cost side of food service, revenue should at minimum balance it out.) If decent boxed meals can keep similar revenue or result in less revenue lost than it saves in cost, then it's probably a decent trade off. I'd much rather have taxpayer subsidy used towards expanding routes/frequency, replacing failed equipment, etc. versus having wait staff serve me food that I'm willing to grab myself and eat.

We really should not expect Canada to have the number of passenger train routes that we in the US have. So much is different in Canada, including a much smaller population and being further north, no infrastructure or terrain to support as many routes. Even in the heyday of passenger rail, Canada had a fraction of the service the US had. Therefore, comparing passenger rail schedules in Canada to the USA (currently or in the past) is truly like comparing avocados and rutabagas.

To your other point, if Amtrak were to offer the same food quality and menu choices as the Canadian (or the Ocean) on its overnight routes, I'd be thrilled and would be willing to order at a counter (or pre-order my food) and take it myself from counter to my table. Not everyone is physically capable of doing that, but most are, and an accommodation could be made to help those who need assistance.

 

[Skyline]

Did you meet any of the people riding in coach on the Canadian? When I rode I talked to several people in coach and in sleeper class who were Candians traveling from point a to point b for either work, or visiting friends / family.

I rode the Canadian Toronto>Vancouver last year. Though in May, it had 28 cars due to several large groups booked in myriad sleepers, plus the Prestige service was full. There were at least three coaches as well, plus several berth cars. Coach pax were able to join sleeping car pax in one of the diners if they chose, and there were other opportunities to have conversations between those in sleepers and those in coach. The coach pax trended younger, but in all classes it was truly an international mix of people. Those who were Canadian rode in both sleepers and coach from what I could tell. And our train was 13 hours late, which was pretty much the only complaint from anyone.

 

[JRR]

Did you meet any of the people riding in coach on the Canadian? When I rode I talked to several people in coach and in sleeper class who were Candians traveling from point a to point b for either work, or visiting friends / family.

There were people from all over, England, Australia, Germany, Scotland. It was a lot of fun meeting folks at dinner and in the Dome.

 

[Dakota 400]

Did you meet any of the people riding in coach on the Canadian? When I rode I talked to several people in coach and in sleeper class who were Candians traveling from point a to point b for either work, or visiting friends / family.

There were people from all over, England, Australia, Germany, Scotland. It was a lot of fun meeting folks at dinner and in the Dome.

Have yet to ride the Canadian, but meeting people on Amtrak from many walks of life and geographic areas is a good reason why I book Amtrak.