Losing my children to California’s overcrowded trains

[chrsjrcj]

I think the main point of the article is that trains can be (and are) popular in California. This is pointed toward the detractors of CaHSR that claim its a senseless boondoggle (unlike the billions spent on highways).

 

[cpotisch]

I think the main point of the article is that trains can be (and are) popular in California. This is pointed toward the detractors of CaHSR that claim its a senseless boondoggle (unlike the billions spent on highways).

Yes. And to get sympathy about a humiliating nonsensical thing that never happened.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I think the Surfliners are already plenty frequent. And the level of crowding described in the article just isn’t possible. “It took us 5 minutes to get through the final 40 feet of seats” That couldn’t possibly be permitted under fire codes and regulations. “But the conductor couldn’t get through” Then how would he have checked peoples tickets?
With the described crowding, how would passengers have gotten off the train before the doors closed at their stop? The scenario in this article would be objectively unsafe and basically impossible.

I wouldn't say this is impossible. It is not only possible, it is probable. You've never been on a packed commuter train? I remember when trains on the NEC were unreserved. In some cases, it was not possible to get through the coaches. The dwell time was outrageous since the aisles and vestibule would have to clear on the platform to allow the passengers to disembark.

 

[cpotisch]

I think the Surfliners are already plenty frequent. And the level of crowding described in the article just isn’t possible. “It took us 5 minutes to get through the final 40 feet of seats” That couldn’t possibly be permitted under fire codes and regulations. “But the conductor couldn’t get through” Then how would he have checked peoples tickets?
With the described crowding, how would passengers have gotten off the train before the doors closed at their stop? The scenario in this article would be objectively unsafe and basically impossible.

I wouldn't say this is impossible. It is not only possible, it is probable. You've never been on a packed commuter train? I remember when trains on the NEC were unreserved. In some cases, it was not possible to get through the coaches. The dwell time was outrageous since the aisles and vestibule would have to clear on the platform to allow the passengers to disembark.

I've been on incredibly packed commuter trains. However, the overall scenario described simply didn't make sense. Is it correct that the conductor or other staff could stop people from boarding if there were just too many people boarding? (That's not a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely asking). Additionally, if it was as packed as is claimed, would it really make sense for him to go back to his seat, versus follow the kids? It would still take time and work for him to get back to his seat, and would make a lot more sense to follow his kids.

 

[west point]

Amtrak 181 is often overcrowded whenever MARC has to cancel any train BAL - WASH and Amtrak accepts the passengers.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I've been on incredibly packed commuter trains. However, the overall scenario described simply didn't make sense. Is it correct that the conductor or other staff could stop people from boarding if there were just too many people boarding? (That's not a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely asking). Additionally, if it was as packed as is claimed, would it really make sense for him to go back to his seat, versus follow the kids? It would still take time and work for him to get back to his seat, and would make a lot more sense to follow his kids.

It would take an awful lot for a conductor or staff to stop people from boarding an unreserved train. What is the definition of "too many" people? I can imagine the ensuing thread that would follow if someone was denied boarding because a staff member claimed "there were too many people" and "it was unsafe."

As for why he returned to his seat, he already explained that his smaller kids were able to squeeze through. Perhaps he din't want to get any deeper into the mess and decided his free range kids could handle it.

You'd have to ask him to explain his thought process. I would suggest that you don't ask his wife.

 

[hmy1]

I have been a regular Surfliner rider for quite a long time now. The overcrowded, standing room only conditions do occur, and more frequently than anybody would like. The busiest trains are the evening rushhour trains 584/784 and 785, especially on Fridays and Sundays. During the summer and on holidays, they are so packed that it can be impossible to move around after you board. This is exactly the situation described in the article and I witness it frequently. People standing with their luggage in the aisles, stairways, cafe car, miserable.

They've been doing better to manage the overcrowding for special occasions by adding cars during the Del Mar racetrack season and making trains all-reserved during certain holidays such as Thanksgiving. But they don't add cars to address the regular overcrowding on the aforementioned trains, even though they can predict it based on ticket sales and ridership history. All they do when they anticipate an oversold train is to tweet about it (which is better than not doing anything at all, I guess, which was the case before).

While the trains are crowded, I must admit I haven't witnessed anybody being left on the platform unable to board. I think everybody tries to squeeze on because nobody wants to wait an hour for the next train. (Exception: When the 101 was closed earlier this winter due to the mudslides and the Surfliner was the only way to get between Santa Barbara and Ventura, many trains left lots of people on the platform because they absolutely could not squeeze any more people on.)

Around ten years ago they added a Superliner car to each trainset to address the standing room only conditions. That helped temporarily until more people started riding the train. Now that the Superliner car has been assigned as a second business class car, we could use another coach car, if not two for the busiest trains.

 

[Ziv]

If the trains are this crowded, then the revenue must be much higher than it would have been with all passengers able to be seated. Why has it taken so long to find the money to rebuild older cars or to buy a relative handful of new cars? Are they still hemorrhaging money even as the trains are completely full to overflowing? That seems hard to believe. If you have a successful line, find the money to expand the service. I imagine that the money has simply not been there to do so, which is a tragedy when CA is spending $70Bn on high speed rail and doing a rather poor job of it.

I have been a regular Surfliner rider for quite a long time now. The overcrowded, standing room only conditions do occur, and more frequently than anybody would like. The busiest trains are the evening rushhour trains 584/784 and 785, especially on Fridays and Sundays. During the summer and on holidays, they are so packed that it can be impossible to move around after you board. This is exactly the situation described in the article and I witness it frequently. People standing with their luggage in the aisles, stairways, cafe car, miserable.

They've been doing better to manage the overcrowding for special occasions by adding cars during the Del Mar racetrack season and making trains all-reserved during certain holidays such as Thanksgiving. But they don't add cars to address the regular overcrowding on the aforementioned trains, even though they can predict it based on ticket sales and ridership history. All they do when they anticipate an oversold train is to tweet about it (which is better than not doing anything at all, I guess, which was the case before).

 

[Eric S]

If the trains are this crowded, then the revenue must be much higher than it would have been with all passengers able to be seated. Why has it taken so long to find the money to rebuild older cars or to buy a relative handful of new cars? Are they still hemorrhaging money even as the trains are completely full to overflowing? That seems hard to believe. If you have a successful line, find the money to expand the service. I imagine that the money has simply not been there to do so, which is a tragedy when CA is spending $70Bn on high speed rail and doing a rather poor job of it.

California did acquire used (former NJT) equipment, now in use on the San Joaquins, to tide things over until the N-S bilevels arrived. Remember, the N-S bilevels should have been in service by now, which would have helped alleviate some of the crowding.

 

[Ziv]

I did not know about the NJT equipment, so thanks for sharing that. There is so much about this business that I don't know that I don't know. It is just frustrating to see a mode of transport I love do so much better abroad and do so poorly here in the States. But I say that as I am about to hop in my high tech, rather expensive, carefully garaged, electric car.... So I am a part of the problem that irritates me so. If I didn't use a car and used public transit more, I would be a part of the solution, but it isn't convenient, or in my business, possible for me to do so.

Sorry for the occasional ill-informed rants/complaints.

If the trains are this crowded, then the revenue must be much higher than it would have been with all passengers able to be seated. Why has it taken so long to find the money to rebuild older cars or to buy a relative handful of new cars? Are they still hemorrhaging money even as the trains are completely full to overflowing? That seems hard to believe. If you have a successful line, find the money to expand the service. I imagine that the money has simply not been there to do so, which is a tragedy when CA is spending $70Bn on high speed rail and doing a rather poor job of it.

California did acquire used (former NJT) equipment, now in use on the San Joaquins, to tide things over until the N-S bilevels arrived. Remember, the N-S bilevels should have been in service by now, which would have helped alleviate some of the crowding.